Things meat eaters say and do

[Back-Space]

I got The China Study from a bookstore in town. Was kind of surprised to find it actually I'm about half way through it. I keep meaning to read on, then I get side tracked. The last part of it looks to be the best though

[Lara_Hastings]

This is a good (or not so good) one: my friend, also vegan, occasionally posts links to his Facebook profile about animal cruelty. EVERY TIME, a meat eater comments saying 'mmm... tasty [insert animal product here]'. Why? Every time, this is. Do they think it's funny? Seriously, what is the matter with people? Surely, even if they don't feel persuaded to give up meat right at that moment in time, they can see that my friend cares about these animals and might feel hurt by these crass comments? Give me strength.

^ Wow, that is really immature of those people to write such. I do sometimes post something that has to do with animal cruelty and stuff on facebook myself, usually no one comments on them. Better that than saying stupid things.

Wow, that Benjamin Zephaniah guy seems really awesome. I wonder if one could find that clip on youtube...

[kanopa]

I was reading ELLE magazine, the article about Alexa Chung who says: I am a vegetarian, I don't do fur. And later she orders smoked salmon? She's a murderer meat eater.

[emzy1985]

Kanopa - Agreed!

[ShadowTears]

I don't get too many bad comments from the omnis I see luckily, though I really just don't see that many people. Anyway, in my church youth group everyone is very respectful of my veganism. I seem to get respect for it often, the people who say they could never do it, you know the type. Though there was one guy from my church who liked to poke "fun" at my veganism. And I've had the "What DO you eat then?" once or twice. And my brothers like to make fun of veganism as well I might add.

I remember once my brother said to me "You know you're not really saving any animals, right?" I don't know why but that just hurt a bit, coming from him, as I really do love my brothers, even if they can be a bit clueless.

My dad is a little weird, he goes back and forth. One moment he's loving all these soy meats and vegan dishes, the next he's saying how he would never suggest someone become vegan. Vegetarian, yes, but not vegan. o_O
He somehow thinks vegetarians save more animals than vegans do, dunno how he gets that "logic" but there you have it.
What gets me is when he is bragging about vegan foods to me one moment and then once he starts talking to someone else he starts on the "Nothing is good as beef/meat" garbage. That happened the other day and I was just like o_o. What the hell? I guess liking good food is embarrassing.

Here's a good story now. My brother, who enjoys poking at veganism, came to drop off his doggie for us to dogsit a couple of days ago. As usual I was preparing for the anti-veg comments he might shoot off. Plus he was bringing a family friend so not sure what he'll come up with. When they get here the friend has this bag of (uncooked, boxed, bagged etc) indian food he picked up from some store that they bought for us. Wow. Everything but a couple of them were vegan. (butter oil, butter/ghee) I can't wait to try it all. I still can't believe that one, I never would have expected that from them. My brother didn't mention it but for one comment: "Did it pass the test?"

A couple of people from my church asked me a couple of weeks ago "Are you still doing the vegan thing?" They didn't mean it in a rude way, but I thought the choice of words was a bit strange.

My mother is strange with the topic of veg*nism. She is a vegetarian. Whenever I've asked her why she is vegetarian and not vegan she won't give me an answer. If I try to press it she gets sad, upset and nearly cries. I tell her I'm just honestly curious but still no answer. She's read all about veganism, even read Farm Santuary and liked it. So she knows all about the cruelty involved. I find that pretty strange, and quite sad really. I suppose it's a bit of guilt? She likes vegan food when I cook, she doesn't fell like cooking most of the time so she likes to just grab stuff like white bread sandwiches, snacks etc. I guess that's another reason: convenience.

Oh, the things omnis say...

[pat sommer]

nice to hear your stories, shadowtears.

I think I want to use one of those omni phrases next time I ask about menu options: "I'm doing the vegan thing; what do you have?"
If the label fits...

[ShadowTears]

^Haha, that would be quite funny.

[leedsveg]

I remember once my brother said to me "You know you're not really saving any animals, right?" I don't know why but that just hurt a bit, coming from him, as I really do love my brothers, even if they can be a bit clueless.

It will never be easy to know how many animals we vegans save. I remember in Great Britain in the late 1980s when the publicity regarding 'mad cow disease' (BSE) was at its height, my wife and I started cutting out meat from our diet and I'm sure that hundreds of thousands of other people were doing the same thing. But as we started eating less meat, the price of meat fell and others in the population started buying and eating more meat. Obviously those people had less fear of contracting CJD than we did. Overall, it may well have been that meat consumption was not seriously affected, it was just that fewer people ate more of it.

So why bother if we seem to be making little difference?

Well for a start, we know that not having meat in our diet is a big benefit for our health. More importantly, we have the knowledge/satisfaction that as vegans, we have as little involvement as we can with the 'animal industry' and all the pain and cruelty tied in with it. Omnis may choose to ignore that pain and cruelty but we choose to identify with the 7 people at the first meeting of the Vegan Society in 1944 who wanted nothing to do with the whole bloody business.

leedsveg

[emzy1985]

That's a pretty powerful post there leedsveg.

[SlackAlice]

That's a pretty powerful post there leedsveg.

ditto from me leeds...brought me out in goosepimples!

[artintheory]

I met an old school friend last night who I haven't seen for a while, and our conversation got on to food, so I told her I'm now vegan (I've been vegetarian since childhood). I didn't expect a great response due to the fact that she's not the brightest, but i was pretty annoyed by what she said to me. She gave me a funny look and rolled her eyes and said "Oh come on, you have to have SOME enjoyment in your life". I was quite taken aback so I just said she obviously didn't know much about veganism then changed the subject because I couldn't be bothered trying to get her to understand (this is the girl who says she doesn't believe vaccines work because she doesn't understand biology and it all just sounds really complicated!!!).

I've been trying to figure out what she meant by her statement, and the only thing I can come up with is that she thinks I'm on some kind of restrictive fad diet, as she is always on a diet and constantly on about her weight (she's not fat), and always seems like she wants to make a competition out of losing weight (which I have no interest in) as she always has something negative to say when someone loses weight.

I just hate being spoken to in such a patronising manner!

[earthling]

She gave me a funny look and rolled her eyes and said "Oh come on, you have to have SOME enjoyment in your life".

Many omnis really do believe that vegan food tastes horrible, or that vegans don't enjoy or like food, etc etc. It's a view usually based on complete ignorance. Even Richard Dawkins, a very intelligent chap indeed, said 'a lot of vegetarian food isn't very nice'. No-one who's ever been to a good veggie or vegan restaurant could say that, but then omnis don't tend to frequent such places unless they're dragged there by their veggie friends! It's a common myth, that meat is the only tasty or luxurious or indulgent food. People who think this clearly haven't tried anything by Booja Booja.

[artintheory]

Hi earthling

Yes, it seemed to me like she was suggesting that I was somehow punishing myself or denying myself food that I must love.

I think I was extra annoyed because I lived with her once for a short while and she always used to complain about the smell of my cooking (garlic, spices etc) and she seemed to live off things like plain mince or white fish and boiled potatos with no seasoning as she doesn't like "spicy" things. I think therefore that she has a nerve (or like you said, maybe just the sheer ignorance) to infer that I'm eating a restrictive diet!

After having read through this and similar threads I've noticed that these attitudes are pretty standard from non-vegans and I find that really sad. I'm not an overly gregarious person so I wouldn't imagine I'll be facing much discrimination, as my partner, family and work mates are supportive and genuinely curious and they are pretty much the only people in my life most of the time, luckily.

I really dislike being made to feel like a freak or like I am being awkward because I have a conscience, but it's something I have gotten used to from a young age, having always been interested in animal rights, environmentalism and anti-fascist activism etc (pretty much a taboo when you grow up in a working class town). I should probably add, after having read about the problems with abuse from animal rights activists on this forum, that the activism I have been involved with is non-violent as I am a pacifist. I also work in the field of mental health and wellbeing so strongly disagree with verbal and emotional abuse. Just so you know, I won't be engaging in any of that!!

[earthling]

I think I was extra annoyed because I lived with her once for a short while and she always used to complain about the smell of my cooking (garlic, spices etc) and she seemed to live off things like plain mince or white fish and boiled potatos with no seasoning as she doesn't like "spicy" things. I think therefore that she has a nerve (or like you said, maybe just the sheer ignorance) to infer that I'm eating a restrictive diet!

Well maybe she was thinking about what she would eat if she were a vegan and concluded that her diet would be really boring... which it would, no doubt, with no spices, seasonings etc, but then it sounds quite boring already!

[artintheory]

Well maybe she was thinking about what she would eat if she were a vegan and concluded that her diet would be really boring... which it would, no doubt, with no spices, seasonings etc, but then it sounds quite boring already!

I hadn't thought of it that way, and you might be right! It seems quite ridiculous to me that someone would put someone down because they thought that person ate a boring diet, but it seems loads of meat eaters do this to veggies and vegans. I think I have the same rant going through my head that most people on here will when faced with such stupidity: "why on earth would someone give you a hard time because of the food you eat???" The answer is of course clear (in my opinion anyway), it's the same reason people are racist, sexist, secterian, homophobic or whatever... they are ignorant and enjoy having someone to put down to make themselves feel more powerful or better about their own lives.

[earthling]

^ Yes that's true for some people, but I think for others it's good old fashioned defensiveness. A lot of people probably know deep down that they don't really need meat, they just like it, and they may well feel guilty for killing animals or causing them to suffer by proxy. But rather than confront this they deflect attention by criticising vegans and putting us down, or making bad taste jokes about animal death, or convincing themselves that our diet is boring, unhealthy or tastes bad. The fact that vegans exist at all really does some people's heads in - because we're showing them that there is a more compassionate way to eat, a way that they don't have the b*lls to adopt themselves (yet).

[harpy]

In addition to the explanations you've given, the idea that vegans are killjoys who don't really like food is sort of reinforced by popular culture isn't it - I keep reading that Jamie Oliver is supposed to have said something like "stop being a vegan and start enjoying your food" - no idea if he really said it.

So that, in combination with not wanting to confront something that might make one feel guilty, could produce that sort of response from someone who isn't a deep thinker - I doubt if it was anything personal, though of course you know the person and we don't, artintheory

[earthling]

I keep reading that Jamie Oliver is supposed to have said something like "stop being a vegan and start enjoying your food" - no idea if he really said it.

Ugh. Jamie Oliver gets on my nerves! Whether he said it or not, you're right, popular culture is saturated by messages that meat/dairy are the only tasty treats available. From M&S adverts to Nigella to Masterchef... when was the last time someone was shown on TV in raptures over a lovely vegan meal? Someone should do a video ad campaign showing vegans savouring and loving their food!

[twinkle]

someone should take a steadicam round the next vegan festival and do a montage of people eating trifle, truffles, those amazing raw salads, all the cakes and curries...

[Bearshark]

So at my new job the other day, I took a salad to work for lunch. As I was eating it, one of my co-workers came over and had a look (she knows I'm vegan) and said something about how healthy it looked. I agreed, and said that I couldn't take all the healthy I was eating and soon I was going to have to have something unhealthy to make up for it :P
She replied with "Yeah, definately, I mean, just be vegan for a few months and then you can say you've done your part for the animals, and you can go back to eating normally again!" Uh....that's not how it works.....

[Back-Space]

So at my new job the other day, I took a salad to work for lunch. As I was eating it, one of my co-workers came over and had a look (she knows I'm vegan) and said something about how healthy it looked. I agreed, and said that I couldn't take all the healthy I was eating and soon I was going to have to have something unhealthy to make up for it :P
She replied with "Yeah, definately, I mean, just be vegan for a few months and then you can say you've done your part for the animals, and you can go back to eating normally again!" Uh....that's not how it works.....

It's not? Well you can't honestly expect to live off of fruits and vegetables your whole life, can you?

[TXvegan]

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

Saw it on a bumper sticker and it was all I could do to NOT ram my car into it!

[Back-Space]

Bad decision make good stories Lol

[angie54321]

Yeah, there's always a smiley next to what they've said as though we will think oh ha ha yeah that's hilarious, what sparkling wit! Ugh. I just find it depressing.

I think you mean 'shining wit' - the spoonerism

[Clueless Git]

I think you mean 'shining wit' - the spoonerism

Eh? ...

OH!

That ones gonna get used

[earthling]

I think you mean 'shining wit' - the spoonerism

[angie54321]

Eh? ...

OH!

That ones gonna get used

I can't take credit for it - it was from a Jasper Carrot monologue from years ago - you can hear it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPujYMAYY7Q

[Clueless Git]

Lol! You can't beat Jasper when he's on form

[zeenah]

what is usually said/asked:

"you do take vitamine pills, right? that's utterly important!" (me: no i don't 'cause my diet gives me all nutrition i need)
"do you eat fish?" (me: no..) "omg, but fish is so healthy for you"
"don't you miss meat?" (me: no cause i eat so much delicious alternative food that i dont need that yucky meat)
"don't you get bored by eating lettuce all the time?" (haha)
"why are you vegan? because you like animals?" (duuh:P )
"those rabbits remind me of you" (cause some think i only eat lettuce)
"a nut steak (or similar) is not steak! you can't steel the word steak, it belongs to meat"

..but lots of prejudices gets blown through the cealing after i have cooked for people, giving them a taste of what they are missing and telling them about the factory life some animals have to suffer.. have actually made several people into vegetarians/vegans, - and working on more!

[kikifromscotland]

Today at work, everyone was eating McDonalds/ Greggs/ unhealthy food as usual. For some reason at my work they have a habit of eating all this crap and talking about why it's so bad and they wish they didn't, and they were saying how they've heard there are hormones in McDs burgers etc, and how they are never going to let their kids into McDonalds (a nice sentiment but how will that work when you eat in there every day?!). I could have chimed in but I wanted a peaceful break so just read my book. Then a guy comes into the staffroom and is like 'oh what have you got guys? Mmmm McDonalds, oh wow greggs,' then he gets to me and he's like 'rabbit food', I was pretty speechless because I was eating home made tomato pasta and home made vegetable pie, I did answer 'since when do rabbits eat pasta and pie' and he was like 'oh that does actually look nice' I think it's just because he's seen me eat salad before and assumes that's all I eat.

I paid £15 to go to the work night out but now I really think I'll just skip it, there is no vegan option and 90% of the people I work with are %!$!?!%s, not just cause of this but their general attitude!

[Back-Space]

I was having a bit of an argument with a friend through texts today. "Well my meat's killed humanly" Wait a minute.... Since when was KFC considered humane?... He just kept lining up one stupid comment after another. He's not a stupid kid, but if he's going to argue with someone about eating meat, it shouldn't be with the only guy he knows thats done his research

[zeenah]

i was to attend a home made dinner with coworkers and we all skipped in 15$ or something, and i had told everyone i didn't eat meat and even offered to make the food to make it eatable for everyone, but someone else insisted on doing it cause they were afraid of what i was gonna make. and when the food was served, there was stew with lots of minced meat in everything..and there were lettuce on the side..

[twinkle]

zeenah that's pretty rubbish of your co-workers Did they offer you your contribution back? Maybe a potluck would be a good option if you were going to give them another try with a shared meal, then at least you could eat what you brought and wouldn't be out of pocket. I feel narked on your behalf though!

[twinkle]

I was having a bit of an argument with a friend through texts today. "Well my meat's killed humanly" Wait a minute.... Since when was KFC considered humane?... He just kept lining up one stupid comment after another. He's not a stupid kid, but if he's going to argue with someone about eating meat, it shouldn't be with the only guy he knows thats done his research

When friends say stupid things in a way it's worse than a random person, you don't want to realise they're as unthinking as joe-public. One of my friends was recently commenting on the "high" price of some frozen turkeys she'd seen, to me and to a mutual vegetarian friend, and I was saying "you're really aiming your outrage at the wrong people here - the price you've just mentions seems low for an animal's life to me" but what I meant clearly didn't have any impact on her because she just kind of subsided, still muttering about what a lot of money it was and how you could buy a chicken for so much less

[harpy]

People are so good at not hearing, or ignoring, stuff they don't want to hear. I agree Zeenah ought to get a refund - what did they expect you to do, say "Oh I'll have some meat then"? Or maybe they think vegans just eat lettuce.

Yesterday I went to someone's birthday lunch in a restaurant and I'm not really complaining about the lack of vegan provision because the birthday "boy" and not I was paying, but anyone who watched me eat would certainly have got the impression that vegans live on salad (Though they might have been puzzled if they'd looked at my girth.)

[Back-Space]

When friends say stupid things in a way it's worse than a random person, you don't want to realise they're as unthinking as joe-public. One of my friends was recently commenting on the "high" price of some frozen turkeys she'd seen, to me and to a mutual vegetarian friend, and I was saying "you're really aiming your outrage at the wrong people here - the price you've just mentions seems low for an animal's life to me" but what I meant clearly didn't have any impact on her because she just kind of subsided, still muttering about what a lot of money it was and how you could buy a chicken for so much less

Omni's are just starting to bug me now I don't know how you put up with them. Usually if I make a comment like that it's more than good enough of a reason to start an anti-vegan barrage of comments.

Getting a bit tired of some of the crap, myself... I like how they go and start pushing buttons, making comments about veganism, then when I throw some of it back at them, I'm the asshole... That's why I've stopped eating with friends. "Mmmm, look at this yummy steak. Don't you want some?" Oh, haha... It's just funnier every time you say it, really...

[RubyDuby]

It gets easier. ^ (imo)
Friends eventually realize you're serious and stop with the comments, and you'll end up either with an arsenal of canned answers or learn to smile and shake your head and let it go.
It can be very deja vu-ey with new people though.

[twinkle]

Yes to the deja vu. Unfortunately I pretty much laughed in the face of the last person who asked me where I get my protein, because it's just such a cliche. Unfortunately she was genuinely clueless so I did look rude

[Back-Space]

To be fair, a year ago I was completely clueless about vegan nutrition aswell. If someone asks me a serious question, and I don't notice any sarcasm in it, I like to answer them Unfortunately that doesn't happen very often, it's mostly ridicule, which I'm equally talented at handling

[RubyDuby]

I feel the same way Back-Space.

[emzy1985]

I'd like to show you an excerpt (sp?) from a Facebook conversation I had. The guy actually messaged me and said he didn't know what to say to what I had written and was really evaluating how he felt about what he ate:

Dude: Well i think hes a miserable bastard, we all have a choice.
Me: Except the animals! Apply the same logic to rape, sexism, homophobia, murder, racism etc etc. We all have a choice not to rape the pretty girl walking down the road in front of us. How dare you be such a miserable bastard and condem me raping her? The fact is, people with compassion understand that their veganism is not a choice. It's a moral obligation, just like not raping, murdering or abusing humans is.
Dude:.....
Me: Also, talking of personal choices, a personal choice is one in which there are no victims or third parties. This clearly by definition means that choosing to eat animals is not a personal choice at all. It is a moral choice! You choose to ignore animal's sentience and continue to endulge yourself and exploit them.

[earthling]

^^ Wow Emzy, well said! You kicked ass! Seems like you had an effect too, well done.

[emzy1985]

Thanks Earthling! I've been filling my mind with Animal Rights theory recently and it's definately helped me with my disscusions with people.

[vava]

i'd like to show you an excerpt (sp?) from a facebook conversation i had. The guy actually messaged me and said he didn't know what to say to what i had written and was really evaluating how he felt about what he ate:

dude: Well i think hes a miserable bastard, we all have a choice.
me: Except the animals! Apply the same logic to rape, sexism, homophobia, murder, racism etc etc. We all have a choice not to rape the pretty girl walking down the road in front of us. How dare you be such a miserable bastard and condem me raping her? The fact is, people with compassion understand that their veganism is not a choice. It's a moral obligation, just like not raping, murdering or abusing humans is.
dude:.....
me: Also, talking of personal choices, a personal choice is one in which there are no victims or third parties. This clearly by definition means that choosing to eat animals is not a personal choice at all. It is a moral choice! You choose to ignore animal's sentience and continue to endulge yourself and exploit them.

ilove this post! WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN READING EMZY?

[emzy1985]

http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/ and http://www.carnism.com/ mainly, although there are some fantastic podcasts out there too!

[pusskins]

I need a bit of help with this one, as I'm not good with the quick, short comebacks.

I work for a solicitor's office *spit*. Now, I have had 'witty trouble' from this one solicitor before. I currently wear a Meat Means Murder badge. He (correctly) said that murder means the killing of humans. And he walks off all smug.

I need something quick, sharp and witty and intelligent to come back to him, or any other person, with. I've already got in a fracas with him about farming in the past, as he goes to these Country Show things. I need to get better at defending myself and not go in to a long whine (<- this is how I feel I go about it). Rather than just say fuck off

[harpy]

You could tell that on your salary you can't afford a badge big enough to say "Killing animals for meat may not involve murder in legal terms, but in my opinion it's morally equivalent to murder", but that if he will pay for it you'll wear it

I'm sure that there must have been some anti-slavery slogans that altered the then-current meaning of words in a similar way - that would be a good comeback if you could find one.

[vava]

I feel sure that in spite of all the slavery comparisons if slavery was still allowed nowadays there would be loads of people that would be happy to have slaves. In fact it still goes on under our noses and is good business for some unscrupulous scum. Child slavery still exists and we all condone it by buying cheap clother in the high street. Prostitution of women and I suspect of men in some cases is a form of slavery. Cheap Mexican labour that everybody knows is illegal but useful to the american economy - it just goes on and on - so slavery is not really abolished - just named something else to make it more acceptable. As long as there is an egocentric money grubbing subculture, slavery of one sort or another will exist and unfportunately I don't see the egocentricity gene fading any time in the near future. GAH!

[leedsveg]

Cheap Mexican labour that everybody knows is illegal but useful to the american economy - it just goes on and on - so slavery is not really abolished - just named something else to make it more acceptable.

I suspect something similar goes on in this country with Eastern Europeans harvesting crops for the supermarkets.

lv

[Manzana]

I need a bit of help with this one, as I'm not good with the quick, short comebacks.

I work for a solicitor's office *spit*. Now, I have had 'witty trouble' from this one solicitor before. I currently wear a Meat Means Murder badge. He (correctly) said that murder means the killing of humans. And he walks off all smug.

I need something quick, sharp and witty and intelligent to come back to him, or any other person, with. I've already got in a fracas with him about farming in the past, as he goes to these Country Show things. I need to get better at defending myself and not go in to a long whine (<- this is how I feel I go about it). Rather than just say fuck off

I'd go for something like "laws and ethics are not the same thing in case you have not noticed yet" or "Black people (and jews) did not use to be included in that term either but now we all think it is barbaric... it is a shame law always lags behind human conciousness"