I got a stern warning about B-12

[beforewisdom]

I was recently at Summerfest. I heard a lot of nutrition lectures from Dr. Michael Klapper, Dr. Michael Gregor ( veganmd.com ), Brenda Davis RD, and George Eisman RD.

Dr. Klapper has been running a vegan health study. He warned us that he has been seeing a lot of vegans with cardiovascular disease, neurological damage, and compromised cognition due to b-12 deficiencies( vegetarians have also been victims ).

The other experts noted similar experiences.

They all agreed that unless you live in Israel ( foods are fortified with b-12 by law ) there are only two reliable sources of vitamin b -12:

1. Foods that are labeled as being fortified with b-12
( may not have enough per serving )

2. Vitamin B-12 supplements

Dr. Gregor recommended that if you have been a vegan for over a year
( even if you have been eating fortified soy or nutritional yeast ) that you take a 2000 mcg sublingual b-12 pill everyday for two weeks and then once a week indefinately.

All of the experts added that getting b-12 in multivitamins may not work as well as sublingual pills as proper utilization of b-12 starts in the mouth and continues in the stomach. Most large vitamin pills do not break up until they reach the gut.

They recomended holding a b-12 pill under your tounge until it dissolves and taking it with no other supplements.

HTH

Steve

[DontJustDoSomething, SitThere]

I was recently at Summerfest. I heard a lot of nutrition lectures from Dr. Michael Klapper, Dr. Michael Gregor ( veganmd.com ), Brenda Davis RD, and George Eisman RD.

Dr. Klapper has been running a vegan health study. He warned us that he has been seeing a lot of vegans with cardiovascular disease, neurological damage, and compromised cognition due to b-12 deficiencies( vegetarians have also been victims ).

The other experts noted similar experiences.

They all agreed that unless you live in Israel ( foods are fortified with b-12 by law ) there are only two reliable sources of vitamin b -12:

1. Foods that are labeled as being fortified with b-12
( may not have enough per serving )

2. Vitamin B-12 supplements

Dr. Gregor recommended that if you have been a vegan for over a year
( even if you have been eating fortified soy or nutritional yeast ) that you take a 2000 mcg sublingual b-12 pill everyday for two weeks and then once a week indefinately.

All of the experts added that getting b-12 in multivitamins may not work as well as sublingual pills as proper utilization of b-12 starts in the mouth and continues in the stomach. Most large vitamin pills do not break up until they reach the gut.

They recomended holding a b-12 pill under your tounge until it dissolves and taking it with no other supplements.

HTH

Steve

Hi, did they mention why they recommend cyancobalamin instead of methylcobalamin?

Also, see http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...=5700#post5700.

[beforewisdom]

Hi, did they mention why they recommend cyancobalamin instead of methylcobalamin?

Also, see http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showtread.php?p=5700#post5700.

Dr. Greger (veganmd.com) only recommended methylcobalamin for people who were ever smokers, as it is absorbed better.

Smokers, drinkers, and people over 50 are supposed to the people who have reduced ability to absorb b-12.

Steve

[Korn]

Smokers, drinkers, and people over 50 are supposed to the people who have reduced ability to absorb b-12.

Steve

That version of the truth is an extremely simplyfied one.

[Trendygirl]

I have also seen these lectures and I am going to e-mail him to clear some things up and find what foods contain B12 naturally

[Korn]

I am going to e-mail him to clear some things up and find what foods contain B12 naturally

Unfortunately, that won't be easy, as most of the research done on B12 is done by people who don't mind eating meat.

[Trendygirl]

I don’t understand what you mean Korn? He is a vegan Doctor so he will tell me about any vegan sources of b12. I know he has looked at the findings from many veggie studies.

[Korn]

Doctors are normally not doing any research on their own, they study research that has been done by others. If these studies are incomplete or in many ways only are scratching the surface, the info they need in order to tell you about vegan B12 sources are lacking. The ways to measure really small amounts of B12 (and we need really small amounts of B12) are not reliable, and most studies ignore a lot of plants, they are not performed on fresh food, and dob't look a lot of really important issues related to the 'can vegans get enough, reliable, 'true'/active bio-available B12 from plants?'-question. I'm not saying that I know what I'm talking about and that they don't - I'm saying that both among vegan and non-vegan doctors there are strong disagreements about this issue, and it seems to me that whether you're a vegan or not (lots of non-vegans are low in B12 even if they overconsume B12 in their diet*), the best thing you can do is to live as healthy as possible, test yourself.

• For example, some experts say that B12 deficiency is rare among vegans. Some say it's common.
  
• Regarding the vegan sources of B12, some will say that the only 'reliable' solution is to take pills, and that too much B12 can't be harmful, others will say the opposite; that to live unhealthy and take pills to compensate for a unhealthy lifestyle is not good solution, and will tell you about risks associated with too much B12.
  
• Some will recommend you to take multivitamins, others will tell you that the B12 in multivitamins can be destroyed and transformed into B12 analogues by the copper and iron in these pills.
  
• Some will say that B12 fortified food is a good solution, while others rather will let you know that the B12 in fortified food often is not 'real' B12, but B12 analogues.
  
• Some doctors will say that the fact that some food, plants, fortified food or supplements contain B12 is a big problem, others will tell you that if you're healthy, your digestive systems is able to utilize the real B12 in your diet and ignore the B12 analogues.
  
• Some will say that B12 in plants is destroyed by exposure to light, but if you ask them if the plant studies they refer to are made on fresh plant (= not a lot of exposure to light after they have been picked), they might not know what to say.
  
• Some will tell you that B12 is destroyed by components in our drinking water, but if you ask if these components also have an effect on our bodies (= destroy B12 inside our digestive system (after we have consumed B12 supplements, food containing B12 or fortified food), maybe they don't really have a reply.
  
• Some of them will claim to have a good overview on the B12 levels in plants. If they do, please ask them about what they know about the B12 levels in angelica sinensis, bladderwrack, goldenberries (Physalis peruviana), chickweed (Stellaria media, Cerastium vulgatum), alfalfa, batabata-cha ('fermented black tea'), maca (lepidium peruvianum, L weddellii, L. affine, L. gelidum), laminaria, korean ginseng, catnip, prickley pear cactus, lamb's quarters and concord grapes and let me know what they tell you, OK?

* Quote: "In June of 2002, The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) - the publications widely believed to be the voice of conventional medicine - reported that most adults do not receive sufficient levels of vitamins (specifically C, A, B6, B12, and E) and concluded that it would be prudent of adults to take a vitamin supplement to help prevent disease. This is probably the strongest stance they have taken in embracing the benefits of supplementation."