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Thread: The cost of healthy food

  1. #1

    Default The cost of healthy food

    Sorry if this was already brought up.

    Do any of you have problems with out much vegan food costs. I hear some of you talking about organic foods and soy and it all cost more then 'normal' food. It really bothers me, i'm on a budget i don't make that much. Why does it cost so much, do you ever think the price will go down? Junk food and meat cost so much less it is really fustrating.
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  2. #2

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    Hi Amaya, if you compare organic food (w/ organic meat) with organic vegan food - vegan food is cheaper. Or you could compare non-organic SAD food with non-organic veg food - veg is still cheaper. Plus, you save some doctors bills later in life

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    I find that vegan wholefoods (I buy conventional, not organic) like lentils, chickpeas and brown rice are waaaaaaay cheaper then meat or junkfood. Vegan junkfood and convenience food IS way more expensive though

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    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    i find its alot cheaper, and lasts alot longer. a steak lasts one night but a bag of apples lasts quite a few days. i only have to go shopping two times a month now, and the bills are alot cheaper. i just try to not buy convenience foods.

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    I eve's Avatar
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    Amaya, considering that vegans don't spend on meat, bacon, eggs, cheese, fish, butter, etc, means there may be a little extra to spend on tofu, nutritional yeast, extra fruit and so on. We don't all support organic either. And by the way, vegan fare is quite 'normal'.

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Do you have organic "box schemes" where you are, Amaya? This is where you order fruit and vegetables (and sometimes other groceries too) for delivery to your house or a local collection point once a week (or once every two weeks in our case).

    Here in the UK at least it usually works out cheaper than buying organic stuff from supermarkets, and the food is usually supposed to be more locally produced (or at least not air-freighted).

  7. #7
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Amaya, My family only purchases organic foods for preparation at home. It is expensive. At a local market, you can get 10 conventional cucumbers on sale for $1, while the organic ones are $1.89 a pound! Brown rice is 4 lbs for $1 and organic brown rice is $1.29 a pound! So yes, it is more expensive to be organic, but as it becomes more "mainstream" I am seeing companies like Trader Joe's and Whole Foods making it only a feww pennies more expensive per item, and I know that progress is being made! Organic foods have been shown to be higher in nutrients, lower in toxic chemicals and kinder to the earth and farmers. I am glad more and more people are seeing the importance of moving towards an organic lifestyle!

    Also, because no unnatural preservatives are used in most of the foods and so they don't "last" as long as conventional ones do, my family goes shopping every few days to ensure that we are getting the freshest foods possible. We buy what we need and consume it within a day or two, then go shopping again!

    If you are having issues with budgeting and organic foods, be sure to read up on which foods are the most important ones to buy organic so you can make informed choices and do your best to incorporate as many organic foods as possible.

    Some of the reasons to buy some foods in particular as organic is that they are known to be heavily sprayed with pesticides and/or are genetically modified, as is the case with citrus and berries (heavily sprayed) and soy products (genetically modified). If you'd like a more complete list of "The top foods to buy organic", let me know and I will send it out.

    Being a new vegan is often tough enough socially, but the cost issue can be a pain, at least it looks that way initially. If you stick to whole foods, you can do it affordably!

    Blessings!

  8. #8

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    I find that people who thing vegan food is expensive are often talking about processed substitutes and deserts. I eat almost all raw foods, so I buy organic produce. My food bill hase gone from roughly 6% of my income to about 10%. In my eyes food is important. It is after all one of the three most important needs for survival, and it has a huge impact on health. I consider 10% of my income a miniscule amount to pay for something so important. I also don't even keep my purchases as cheap as possible. My health is important to me, so I pay a little extra to eat right.

    I also have a hard time thinking of conventional foods as vegan. After all they are sprayed with pesticides. Pesticide means killing of animals considered pests. I realize animals die often either way, but I didn't become vegan to be apathetic about the death of others because it benefits me in some way. I know some peple have a hard time getting organic foods, but I could never use that excuse where I live.

    Also if you want cheap abundant vegan food, look into sprouting. If you live somewhere where you can garden, you can grow a lot of food for your self and have a fun hobby. A lot of people are so dependant on the system they never even consider this, but a ten by ten meter plot can grow enough to supply most of your food. Some people even grow window gardens, I'm working on one myself using discarded aquariums. I also grow mushrooms on top of my fridge, and will be expanding those too. Ther are a lot of ways to produce food at home, and many require very little work, they do the growing on their own the rest of the time.

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote phillip888
    I also grow mushrooms on top of my fridge, and will be expanding those too. .



    is that 'you are growing mushrooms' or did you just find them growing?? LOL
    sorry phillip888 - i jest

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    I like to buy and eat organic wherever possible. I have found that all round, organic foods are more expensive than conventional ones. However, in some cases, the difference is minimal eg, 20 cents difference between organic and non-organic bananas. But then again, there is a $2 difference when it comes to organic tinned tomatoes vs conventional tinned tomatoes.

    Like Phillip, I agree that it is important to fuel your body with the best food available. And I believe that organic varieties are the best available. I have read that organic fresh produce is better for you because it contains more nutrients and less chemicals. I also believe that organic farming methods are much more environmentally friendly than other farming methods.

    I have also found that organic companies seem to be more environmentally friendly with regards to their packaging eg, using recycled materials and vegetable based inks.

    If you can't afford to buy organic all of the time, I would suggest you do it wherever you can, or perhaps when organic items are on sale.

    Roxy

  11. #11
    I eve's Avatar
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    Quote phillip888
    I also have a hard time thinking of conventional foods as vegan. After all they are sprayed with pesticides. Pesticide means killing of animals considered pests. I realize animals die often either way, but I didn't become vegan to be apathetic about the death of others because it benefits me in some way.
    It's true that conventional fruit & veggies are sprayed with pesticides. But on the other hand, organic products use heaps of blood and bone, manure, and horn (for biodynamic). That means they rely entirely on the abattoirs - where else would they get their blood and bone, and manure? Also, remember that the poor animals are often pumped with chemicals so they grow faster than normal, etc. Does this not have an effect on their manure, not to mention their blood and bone?

    A poor choice for consumers. But the main thing is to work for the ending of abattoirs, then growers will have to practise 'green manure' to replace the current methods.

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    I think it just boils down to personal choice and lifestyle. I don't believe that conventional foods are harming me, because I wash everything and look out for additives with big scientific names and numbers etc...

    I will say that some organic food tastes better (there is a pasta sauce that I buy that is delicious) but some of it tastes horrible...like dried apricots...ewwww...give me the bright orange sulphur anyday!!!! Things like rice, I cannot tell...

    I could not afford as an independent student to eat organic, and I do not think it is necessary either. But that is my opinion. Like I said...organic is a personal choice.

  13. #13
    ConsciousCuisine
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    USDA Official Guidelines for "Certified Organic" foods:

    Foods labeled "organic" or "100% organic" may not be grown using any of the following:

    Chemical fertilizers, herbicides or synthetic pesticides
    Ionizing radiation
    Sewage sludge (used for fertilizer)
    Genetically modified ingredients

    Animal products used to grow cannot be given hormones nor antibiotics and must be fed organic feed or allowed access to pasture


    (It is important to note that conventional growers use animal products in growing food as well- just not "certified organic" animal products)

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    I think cost comes down to time and what exactly you want to eat. As a college student I ate many more staples high in starch (such as rice, pasta, potatoes, homemade bread) and canned vegetables and fruits. But I also had much more time to cook then than I do now (tofu was very cheap). The food I ate then was much cheaper than convenience foods or meat were. Now that I am working on transitioning to a raw diet food has become more expensive. Produce that is organic is more expensive but I use it. As a college student I had no access to organic so I'm glad I do now. Buying food (mostly produce) has become more expensive than college days or most others who eat quote normal diets, but I also have the resources now. Buying food has also become more expensive in general because I have no time or very little to prepare food for myself. I'm at home eight hours a day if I'm lucky. Thus I am spending more because time is more important to me than money.
    I have found that depending on where you are in life and what exactly you are willing to eat, veganism can be as cheap or expensive as you have time to make it.

  15. #15

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    i dont know what everyone means by organic. i am a new vegetarian and i am a kid and never worried about my health. what is organic? like the fruits and vegetables have no chemicals or fertilizers? I am thinking about making my own garden that would be so cool

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    Quote JaredM
    i dont know what everyone means by organic. i am a new vegetarian and i am a kid and never worried about my health. what is organic? like the fruits and vegetables have no chemicals or fertilizers? I am thinking about making my own garden that would be so cool
    Yeah, no pesticides, herbicides, or chemical fertilizers. It's a little more specific than that, but I don't know the exact guidlines for produce to be certified organic. If I had a yard that actually got sunlight I'd definitly grow my own veggies. You should go for it.

    and just to add my two cents in on the expence issue of veganism. i'm really not sure what my bills are like compared to omni's since i've been at least vegetarian since i started buying my own food. i do know my bills went up a little when i went vegan, but not to much. but i wouldn't feel bad about spending alot of money on healthy food. it'll more than pay for itself throughout life.

  17. #17
    ConsciousCuisine
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    [/QUOTE]It's a little more specific than that, but I don't know the exact guidlines for produce to be certified organic.[QUOTE]

    Look up at my last post above...the guidelines are there!

  18. #18
    Veganmama
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    Organic produce is heaps more expensive, at th emarkets i can get red capsicum for $2kg organic is $10kg. Manderins $1kg at the market, organic $6. You get the idea. I buy all organic shampoos etc and food and it is really difficult as a single mother, i really have to budget hard and most of our money goes on food. If we at more cooked foods like rice it would go futher but as we eat mostly raw it's really hard to not go to the market and buy all that cheap food. I just say to my self would i spray flyspray on my girls dinner before serving it to them as that's what it feels like to give them that food

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote Veganmama
    i just say to myself would i spray flyspray on my girls dinner before serving it to them as that's what it feels like to give them that food




    ugghhh - never thought about it like that, you are right.
    we aregrowing lots on our allotment at the mo so i am just topping up buying stuff that we arent growing.

    there is a product in uk, cant remember its name, wash off or veg off or something, which you add the veg washing water and its supposed to help take off some more nasties from food. may be worth considered buying if you cant afford organic fresh stuff, at least you would be reducing the sprays from the food a bit more which is good

  20. #20
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Quote cedarblue
    there is a product in uk, cant remember its name, wash off or veg off or something, which you add the veg washing water and its supposed to help take off some more nasties from food. may be worth considered buying if you cant afford organic fresh stuff, at least you would be reducing the sprays from the food a bit more which is good
    There are several "Veggie Wash" sprays here in the US as well. They are mostly overpriced, attractively packaged vinegar or citrus water! Some of them contain surfacients which are dervied from food grade coconut or corn products and the like. Read the ingredients and then make your own if you'd like...here's a recipe!

    1 Tablespoon of lemon juice, 10 drops grapefruitseed extract, 2 Tablespoons of baking soda, 1 cup of water, 3/4 cup vinegar. Mix well in a sprayer bottle. Shake before use. Spray vegetables and let sit for 5-10 minutes.
    Rinse well. This works for virtually all vegetables except mushrooms as they will absorb the fluid! If you do not have the grapefruitseed extract, they spray will work, but not as well.

    This recipe courtesy of moi, The Kitchen Witch!

  21. #21

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    I actually spend quite a bit for one person, about $150-200/week, but I'm worth it. I buy mostly organic, very few "processed" foods.

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    I eve's Avatar
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    Good grief, are you all mad? What's wrong with washing anything with plain tap water? I was reading only this week by people on both sides of the argument (organic v conventional), and both agreed that 90% of fruit and vegetables have undetectable levels of nasties, based on lifetime ingestion. The organic farmers conceded that the levels were VERY low. BTW Artichoke 47, we once had a discussion here as to what constituted "processed" foods. Can't recall whether or not there was any conclusion, but as for me, I do eat a couple of slices of bread each day, a small amount of Marmite, I use Vitasoy milk, and even rice and other grains are all "processed". Most of what I eat, perhaps 80%, is fruit and vegetables which aren't processed really. Although I do buy frozen spinach, frozen blueberries, as the 'fresh' stuff takes days to arrive.

  23. #23
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Quote eve
    Good grief, are you all mad?
    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!







    heheh

    thanks for recipe for veggie wash c.c, yes i do have the grapefuitseed extract so will make some up, thanks.

    btw eve, quite possibly we ARE all mad but seeing as you also post here can we include you in that one too

    just my opinion is that the water in uk taps is cr@p and not only does it not wash anything off nonorganic stuff but tastes really 'stong' i.e. chemically in my area. we have areas of different types of water here in UK , 'hard' areas and 'soft' areas' and the taste and content of the water can vary depending on where you live and who your water provider is...so...for me i like to wash my fruit and veg where and when i can, and if im in a situ where i cant, then i dont, but i DO like to ideally. for those who dont want to...suits me duckie-doos, do as you will

  25. #25

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    I like using veggie wash. It gives me peace of mind and also, in my opinion, makes the fruit and vegetables sort of taste better...er...cleaner.

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    I eve's Avatar
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    Hello Cedarblue, you say: "quite possibly we ARE all mad but seeing as you also post here can we include you in that one too"

    Yes, by all means, I've lived a strictly vegan life for almost 40 yrs. Does that qualify me? Every day when I prepare veggie juice, I wash the carrots and celery under the tap, and believe me, there is no 'strong taste'. I don't like eating foods that have been grown with the aid of abattoir products such as blood, bone, horn, manure - so the conventional vegies suit me fine. Conventional fruits and vegies are also a fraction of the price asked by the organic growers, so that leaves me something to spare for decent tofu, chickpeas, etc. Incidentally, when I lived in the country, some thirty yrs ago, I was an organic grower before that term came into use. Now I live in a senior citizens unit, on a pension, and have no opportunity to grow my own, other than some herbs in pots.

    Obviously this is ecstatically amusing to CC, and hope it made her day.

  27. #27
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Anytime anyone says anything like what you did, I find it amusing, but not for the reasons you might think. I simply live for the day I can make statements, such as you did -calling others crazy (mad)-without others getting angry. It pleases me that you can be so direct and not have anyone attack you. That's all.

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    I eve's Avatar
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    I guess they realize that I'm not angry, and I appreciate they understood I'm trying to be helpful. No-one else thought my statement was risible.

  29. #29
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Quote eve
    I guess they realize that I'm not angry, and I appreciate they understood I'm trying to be helpful. No-one else thought my statement was risible.
    "No-one else" ? implying that I thought your post was "risible" ? Well, I don't, actually. I simply have said such things before myself both in person and online and have gotten an angry response myself and have seen others treated the same. That was the point I was making. I live for the day when I can be direct about what I think and feel and know to be true without it being misunderstood. That's it. I was not saying I was angry myself. Just saying that it is customarily the case that when people are having an intelligent, helpful conversation/post discourse and giving each other tips recipes and the like, then are dismissed by a post stating what yours did, implying we are all wrong and not only wrong, but are insane, it is not always taken well. Yet when you do this, there are no flames. Period.
    If I am making myself clear, you should feel that I am honoring The Crone.

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    well, for me, i think everyone has got something to contribute especially on this thread and i enjoy the different points of view and opinions expressed, onviously some will gel more with some with others - thats life i guess.

    i am grateful for cc'c wash recipe and organic perspective and i also appreciate eve's current situation and consequent opinions - we're all in this together!

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    Kiva Dancer's Avatar
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    I like that recipe, CC. Where does one find grapefruit seed extract?

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    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    Quote Kiva Dancer
    I like that recipe, CC. Where does one find grapefruit seed extract?




    health food stores

    brand name is also known as citricidal

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    Question Expensive to eat!!!!

    I just want to whinge.
    I went shopping for the week
    - 2 lettuce heads
    - 1.5kg tomatoes
    - 2 mangos
    - a tub of blueberries
    - 2 tubs of strawberries
    - 2 Granny smith apples
    - 3 pears
    - 2 lebanese eggplants
    - 1/2 small butternut pumpkin
    - 6 cucumbers
    - 1 bunch spring onion
    - 2 white onions
    - ginger root
    - 1 avocado
    - handful of baby spinach
    - a tub of snowpea sprouts
    - 3 bananas
    - 10 carrots
    - a tub of cherry tomatoes
    - lemons
    - sea salt
    - garam masala powder
    - milk and 1 small tub of yoghurt for the omni (my boyfriend)

    We spent $80!!!!!

    By the way I am talking Australian dollars

    Now I know why I spend $150 when I have to buy beans/lentils, porridge/cereal, dried fruit, rice, pasta, condiments, juice and rice milk (and cheese/butter for the omni boy).

    Now I am just wondering, how much would it cost me if I bought pre-packaged meals? I know that it is not healthy to live off that stuff, but out of curiosity, as far as my wallet is concerned, how much difference is there? It just seems to be getting too expensive to eat!!!!

    We only buy basic foods, with occassional bits of junk, like sorbet and stuff. Isn't it supposed to be cheap to eat healthy? If that is considered cheap, I'd hate to see an expensive grocery bill - or an organic grocery bill!!!!

  34. #34
    Veganmama
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    I so understand where you are coming from, i don't understand how those families who eat all that prepackaged foods plus chips and softdrinks do it. I'm a single mum with two kids and getting only the bare minimum i can't spend less than $80 a week. Even then i have to slow them down on the fruit sometimes to make out the week. That's just not right.

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    Northern Lights's Avatar
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    Jumping in after 'lurking' for a long time!

    Tthe packaged food does add up to more, so even though you spent $80, it would have been more if you'd bought the 'other' stuff. I did a survey amoungst friends years ago to see what they were averaging for weekly food costs. The family that I KNOW buys all prepared foods spent 2x as much as our family (same size families).

    Remember that buying bulk can help cut costs. A big bag of apples can last two weeks, so buy apples one week and pears the next.

  36. #36
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    The most economical way to get your fresh fruit and veg here in the UK is, I think, to go somewhere like a street market and see what's going cheap (because it's in season or the stallholders have bought too much).

    Another cheap way is to go to supermarkets just before closing time when a lot of stuff is marked down - different supermarkets have different patterns of doing this.

    Either way, going out shopping with a list is not always the cheapest thing to do here - it's better to see what bargains there are on the day.

    As has been suggested, you also get better value by buying in large quantities, as long as you have a way to keep the stuff fresh. Maybe you could grow your own sprouts as these things seem to be a bit overpriced in the shops (here, anyway).

    Hope some of that helps and apologies if you're already doing it all.

  37. #37

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    Sometimes my bill gets up to $200 for about 5 days' worth of fresh fruit and vegetables...one person.

    I find that what adds up are blueberries, raspberries, strawberries, pineapple, bell peppers, spinach, and tomatoes. I buy mostly organic.
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

  38. #38
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    Good grief!
    I feed a family of 3, plus 2 budgies and a very large dog on Ł80pw, including 75% Organic fruit and veg, organic Soya Milk and Soya Spread, and treats from the local Health food shop. We've all got big appetites, too!

  39. #39
    tails4wagging
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    Why are we penalised for having a concience?. I have just baught a thin bar of dairy free rice crackle choc, bar and it cost my 79pence, very expensive!!. Soya milk is nearly twice as dear as dairy milk. Very unfair!
    Last edited by Korn; Oct 10th, 2004 at 07:15 PM. Reason: This was the first post in another thread about the cost of vegan food

  40. #40
    wuggy
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    Because 'the Public gets what the Public wants' (quote from 'Going Underground', The Jam) - and mass-produced shit is cheap cos it sells well, I suppose.
    At least we don't have to fork out good money on expensive joints of rotting flesh to go with our beautiful array of fruits and vegetables!
    I don't mind paying for quality.

  41. #41
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    specialist 'diets' ie vegan, gluten-free etc are supposedly produced for a minority, select group who, out of choice or for medical reasons, can/do not eat regular foodstuffs. hence not so much of it is bought/consumed, hence it is expensive to produce not just foodstuffs like this (on short runs) but almost anything so the high cost is passed on to the consumer.

    i think this is the view of the producers

  42. #42
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    Is Veganism Only for the Affluent? By Joanne Stepaniak, HERE.

  43. #43
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    here in Iceland, it«s hard to grow your own food in your garden, but I«m going to grow alfaalfa sprouts in my window and mabe some other things, because the cold of winter doesn«t«get inside. The good thing about Iceland is that the tap-water here is cleaner than many bottled waters, and we have as much hot water as we can use! That certainly is an advantage! About the organic/not organic, I just get whatever tastes better, and that is most-often the organic.
    People once thought my mother is a nut, but I once thought a nut was my mother! :D

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    Has anyone heard of ‘Freegans’ and dumpster diving?

  45. #45
    wuggy
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    I just cannot wait til we move to Scotland - I'm going for the whole Permaculture/Veganic/Self-Reliant thing. I am so looking forward to being outside again, feeling exhausted every night from all my gardening chores, and eating fresh vegetables straight from the soil!

  46. #46

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    Cedarblue,
    I've always wanted to grow mushrooms. Please tell me more.

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    Default Is veganism a privilege?

    The connection between veganism and privilege has been bothering me for quite some time. On the one hand, I certainly believe that if everyone went vegan or nearly vegan, both the planet and humans would benefit greatly. It is my understanding that if the affluent societies continue to consume as much meat and other animal products as they do now, the planet will become so exhausted (i.e. water will become so polluted, the soil so poor, etc.) that it will become unable to sustain the human population. And of course, the poor will suffer first. Our response is to boycott to the best of our ability all animal products. So, we are vegans for the poor. (Yes, I know this is an oversimplification, but I do think that this is one of many motives for adopting a vegan lifestyle.) But here's the catch: maintaining a vegan lifestyle is quite costly and must therefore be seen as a privilege, a luxury. So we're doing this for the poor, except we couldn't ask them to identify with us, to join us, because our lifestyle is one of privilege. What happens in the end is that the market takes advantage of us by providing us with all these vegan goodies (food, cosmetics, shoes) and charging extra for them. So what are we, a group of privileged eccentrics who defend their lifestyle by their willingness and ability to pay for it?

    See, it is not the fact that paying $3.5 for a bar of soap (among other things) represents a financial hardship for me that bothers me so much (although I can't say I'm exactly thrilled by this). What bothers me is the message that I believe I am sending when I pay that much for it. I am saying, yes, there is a market for this kind of product and it is willing to pay extra to get it. But by paying extra, I am accepting the fact that this product will be unaccessible (unaffordable) to a lot of people. And that means that veganism isn't for everyone, that it isn't even for everyone who might want to accept it. And that seems to contradict the very purpose of veganism.

    Is anyone else bothered by this?? And if so, how do you think we should respond?

  48. #48
    I eve's Avatar
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    Frankly I don't see that a vegan lifestyle is more expensive than that of omnivores - just think - we don't buy meat, bacon, eggs, cheese, fish, etc. And there's no vegan reason for spending up big on organic fruit & veggies. My lifestyle is very simple, and I am staggered to read on our forum how people spend up on cosmetics, etc, eg I don't use shampoo or conditioner - just use soap, and a bar of soap lasts for ages. I don't lather my body with it, but use a loofah type brush every morning with warm water. There are all sorts of products that weren't available in my childhood, and I don't miss them now!

    You say the planet will become so exhausted that it will become unable to sustain the human population. You're right, but that doesn't bother me one iota. The planet managed for millions of years before humans came on board, and if humans ruin things for themselves, well hard cheese, the planet will return to the nonhumans. I just hope that our species doesn't destroy ALL the flora and fauna.

    So no, I don't consider it a privilege to be a vegan, but I do feel it is our good karma that we don't eat animals.
    Eve

  49. #49
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    Not all vegan items are luxuries. One could live with no soap or shampoo, as many people do, and eat nothing but fruit and veggies from the store and fix them themselves. Specialty products and conveniece foods are luxeries. If you choose these things rather than a simpler way of vegan living, it's your choice, but your veganism doesn't really affect that. In fact, many people I've known who have at one point financially low, thier diet was so close to a vegan one, because animal foods are so expensive.

  50. #50

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    Hasha,
    I think I understand what you are writing. Veganism does seem to be something middle to higher income folks do. Good health itself is a priviledge of the middle and upper income bracket. I heard a news report on how some poor neighborhoods literally have no grocery stores within walking distance of the residents so they are forced to buy junk from gas stations.

    Sniverling makes a good point that some poor people are almost vegan due to lack of money for meat.

    Rice, beans, oatmeal, carrotts, cabbage, greens, bannanas, potatoes, onions and garlic are a big part of my diet and aren't expensive. Again, how accessible are these items to the poor.

    However the broccoli, veggie broth, herbs for medicinal teas, occasional soy milk and other treats do drive up the price. Eating out and purchasing organic are other expenses for me.

    I use Dr. Bronner's soap for my hair and body and it's fairly affordable but the vegan toothpaste and lotion are pricey and definately a speciality market.

    I'm glad you are looking at the economic end of veganism. Social class/money issues seem to affect everything.

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