The cost of healthy food

**feline01** · Dec 29th, 2004, 02:45 PM

I have definitely noticed that stores like Whole Foods/Trader Joe's/Wild Oats have a large percentage of affluent-appearing shoppers. That does not mean they are veg*ns, just yuppies looking for the lastest trend. But I understand your point, Hasha. Some things are more expensive like supplements and organic fruit and veg and if one is poor, those types of items would be unattainable. I work in an inner-city environment for welfare and though there are 2 grocery stores and 1 small health food store, many items that a vegan would use are not easily located and/or purchased using food stamps. None of my clients have a computer, most don't even have telephones so ordering things online would be a challenge plus mail is often stolen.

Veganism can be viewed as a luxury of the middle-class/wealthy in some areas of the world such as where I work but in other areas, it can be the norm. A poor vegan who has a plot of land can grow their own food and the veggies would probably have a reliable source of B-12. Calcium could be obtained from greens. Protein from beans and nuts depending on where one lived. One could be vegan and live fairly peacefully if such an environment was available. As eve noted, the more simply one lives, the easier it would be to be vegan.

Ok, this was really rambling, I hope you understood what I was trying to say. Basically, I see both sides are possible.

**snivelingchild** · Dec 29th, 2004, 06:34 PM

Just to expand, look at the foods someone might eat if they couldn't afford their own and got donated canned food. This usually consists of beans, peas, green beans, etc. If they can afford to buy cheap food, a stable is ramen noodles, which are vegan except for the flavoring. Rice is another cheap stable.

PinkFluffyCloud · Dec 29th, 2004, 07:15 PM

I think it can be a luxury - if you want it to be!

When I was first vegan, I lived on £40 dole money per week, and I used to drink in those days, at least twice a week!

These days, I spend money on lovely vegan treats when I can afford it (so not at the moment, then!), but, having spent more money on things, I make them last, so I don't think it really works out more expensive.

**John** · Dec 29th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Don't be fooled. There are plenty of poor veg*ns. There are people who would like you to think that compassion for animals is the domain of the bourgeois, but that's just anti-liberal propaganda. Yes, it can be challenging for poor people to be strict vegans but isn't that the nature of being poor? You have little control over your life when you don't have money.

I am reminded of a time when I gave a man on the street two dollars so that he could buy a box of chicken nuggets to bring home to his children. In my mind I was thinking that he could feed his family for a couple of days if he bought beans instead. I didn't say that of course, since he was probably going to use the money to buy a pack of cigarettes anyway.

**eve** · Dec 30th, 2004, 06:39 AM

I'm certainly not middle-class/wealthy, in fact I live on a aged pension, and rent a Housing Commission 1-bedroom unit. However, I have no habits, such as smoking, drinking, gambling, drugs, etc, nor do I buy take-aways or any other junk. I live a simple life and still manage to buy the odd book, subscribe to a couple of good organisations, etc, and my membership of the gym and pool is an investment in my health. But with food, it is strictly conventional fruit & vegies from the cheapest stores, and I don't eat fancy tofus, just a block of ordinary tofu now and then, that I marinate to make tasty. I eat no sweets or desserts, apart from fruit and peanuts. I consider that my lifestyle is very healthy, and those of my friends who are a similar age to me, wonder why I am so healthy! Most of them are forever shopping for, and eating, what I consider crap foods.

**Wildflower** · Dec 30th, 2004, 07:24 AM

What a great topic!

The ability to pick and choose one's food is the ultimate privilege.

I try to keep this in the forefront when I think of veganism and definately consider it to be a privilege that I can TURN AWAY certain foods. This in itself is wonderful.

But veganism doesn't have to be pricey. Vegetables, rice, beans and tofu are some of the absolute cheapest things you can buy.

Food is a NEED. Vegan donuts and some of the other items listed are LUXURIES.

**feline01** · Dec 30th, 2004, 01:39 PM

I was thinking of this thread last night while giving the babies their baths. When I was pregnant, I bought organic, herbal, vegan shampoo, body wash and lotion. ALl 3 cost $8US. I"ve been using these same products for the last 8 months and will still get another month or so out of the bottle. Is it really that expensive to spend $8 for something that will last 9 months+. I guess if I only had one baby, the products would last well over a year. I think that is highly affordable and I am secure knowing that my babies are not being covered with chemical-laden, animal-tested, perfume-saturated products. Or the large bottle of Dr. Bronner's castille soap-cost $10 but I've been cleaning with it for over a year and a half.

As several people have already noted, veganism does not have to be expensive. It can be if one chooses to but it is not inherently a more expensive lifestyle.

PinkFluffyCloud · Dec 30th, 2004, 08:40 PM

After reading Eve's comments I tried washing my hair with plain vegetable soap tonight, which I had always thought would leave my hair tangly and 'stringy'.
I'm a convert!

**gothic_ana** · Dec 31st, 2004, 08:58 AM

u know we all have diffrent comforts and diffrents ways of living, that is what makes you unique.

but the fun of being vegan is going on to the WWW and finding wholesalers to make our own stuff, its cheeper and you know whats in it.

i have also been on the poorer side of things but u know what i am much happyer knowing that fair enough i aint rich but i still have a roof over my head and some food on the table and family who even though are s**t heads care every know and again.

take care.

**gothic_ana** · Dec 31st, 2004, 09:11 AM

being vegan aint bout having richy things or being poor its about a lifestyle your comfortable with and the reasons why you became vegan otherwise you wouldnt be vegan to begin with.
my man got mad cos somethings r expansive but if i make them it would b cheper in the LONG RUN.

**l337_v3g4n_1** · Dec 31st, 2004, 11:52 PM

http://www.funlol.com/funpages/astheworldturns.html
this is to remind you that you are not poor, even though it seems like it. Feel blessed that you even have something to eat, and a roof over your heads. Happy new years, and enjoy what you have!

**feline01** · Jan 2nd, 2005, 10:20 PM

Another aspect of veganism that I think many vegans follow is the concept of multi-use items. Omnis often buy say toilet cleaner, floor cleaner, counter cleaner etc. while I buy Dr Bronners which does all of that or an oil blend that I use as a massage oil and for cradle cap. We might spend a bit more on an item but get much more useage from it.

**Mystic** · Jan 2nd, 2005, 11:36 PM

Like Eve, I try to live quite simply - I make my own food from scratch, like from dried beans/legumes, brown rice, barley and fresh conventional fruits, vegetables and herbs. I buy supermarket brand plain instant oats, rice cakes,hummus, wholemeal bread, tomato sauce (ketchup) etc... We also keep natural peanut butter, sugar free jam and yeast extract spread.

We (my boyfriend and I) snack on fruit, rice cakes (and for him peanuts and raisins and supermarket brand cookies) and dates or dried fruit. Like Eve, we don't buy desserts. I eat lots of dates instead, or frozen bananas or frozen berries. If I am out for dinner or it is a special occassion, I will get dessert out - usually sorbet

I rarely buy convenience meals, besides baked beans (which are dirt cheap) and the odd veggie burger. I spend around $25 on good quality flaxseed oil, but that is really all.

My boyfriend, who is an omnivore has adjusted well to this much cheaper style of eating, although he does also buy milk, cheese, cold cut meats and eggs

**feline01** · Jan 4th, 2005, 06:39 PM

On my way to the gym today, I walked by a supermarket that advertised 4 dozen eggs for $1US. My first thought was "what sort of hormones have they pumped these chickens with in order for them to have so many eggs and what kind of conditions are they kept in?" I had a mental image of rows and rows of battery cages with these poor chicks incarcerated there and given horrible meds in order for them to produce more and more eggs until the poor chicks just die. Really freaked me out. But to others, that low cost is a blessing. The sad thing is that what they really think is a blessing is killing the environment, themselves, their children and all those millions of animals. Is it really worth that $1?

**foxytina_69** · Jan 5th, 2005, 11:51 AM

out of curiosity (and wondering if i spend way too much!) how much money do you usually spend a month on vegan groceries?

**Gorilla** · Jan 5th, 2005, 12:22 PM

i don't really keep track of how much i spend on groceries

so this is an educated guess. i suppose it's something like £85 - £100 a month for both myself and my boyfriend together. is that a lot?

BTW i thought this might be useful for this thread if people don't know the current exchange rates in different countries: www.xe.net

**Artichoke47** · Jan 5th, 2005, 12:54 PM

I buy mostly organic, rarely processed food and I spend about $600-800/month for one person.

**cwih57** · Jan 5th, 2005, 05:25 PM

Oh my goodness $600 to 800 a month!

I spend around 150 dollars a month for me alone

**MzNatural** · Jan 5th, 2005, 05:46 PM

I only buy organic. I spend about $300 monthly, hardly any processed foods for myself. I make my own breads, nut/soy milk and nut butters. I still have vegetables growing in the garden. It has been in the 60’s here in Maryland.

PinkFluffyCloud · Jan 5th, 2005, 05:53 PM

I estimate that I spend about £60 per week on general groceries for three people (all big eaters), including drinks and treats. A lot of it is Organic, which pushes up the cost.

**assilembob** · Jan 5th, 2005, 06:29 PM

$400 or so a month...sometimes more, sometimes less.
around $100 a week. That's just me.
I buy lots of box rice dinners and canned soup as I work long hours and need portable food. (easier to take a box of rice and cook it when i can than lug a cooler!)

PFC we spend about the same amount but mine is just for me!!!!! And I don't eat a lot

~Mel

**foxytina_69** · Jan 5th, 2005, 07:12 PM

i spend ALOT on groceries, for three people. probably anywhere from 600-1000 dollars a month :S

PinkFluffyCloud · Jan 5th, 2005, 08:13 PM

Assilemob, I only included what I spend on food and drink, I spend extra when I shop on things like animal foods, (feed for my animals, I mean!

), toiletries, etc.
I also try to make huge vats of Soup, etc, which is cheap nourishment.

**Tigerlily** · Jan 5th, 2005, 08:18 PM

I know my mom spends over $100 Canadian a week buy groceries for the whole family. A lot of it is non-vegan, of course, so I don't consume most of it anymore.

I don't know how much I spend. I buy soy milk every week and sometimes my own veggies and odd food items...

**MzNatural** · Jan 5th, 2005, 08:50 PM

feline01

On my way to the gym today, I walked by a supermarket that advertised 4 dozen eggs for $1US. My first thought was "what sort of hormones have they pumped these chickens with in order for them to have so many eggs and what kind of conditions are they kept in?" I had a mental image of rows and rows of battery cages with these poor chicks incarcerated there and given horrible meds in order for them to produce more and more eggs until the poor chicks just die. Really freaked me out. But to others, that low cost is a blessing. The sad thing is that what they really think is a blessing is killing the environment, themselves, their children and all those millions of animals. Is it really worth that $1?

Unfortunately there are many that don't think of the reasons behind the low cost of animal products, and there are those who really don't care!

**feline01** · Jan 5th, 2005, 09:56 PM

If I exclude baby food, I spend around $500-$600US for 2 adults. That includes bottled water which is what the entire family drinks including the cat and as much organic items as possible. My veggy purchases have increased recently because the organic farm I visit has very little due to it being winter. I still get lettuce, aragula, coriander from the greenhouse and some kale and collard greens from the fields but not even every week, depends on the sunlight.

**kriz** · Jan 6th, 2005, 06:53 AM

I get my dinners delivered weekly by a vegan food service. It's $70 for a 5 day supply and it's enough food for 2 people (3 big main dishes + 4 side dishes and 1 soup). I spend a lot more weekly, probably $130 alltogether.

.. Oh, my dog, he is very cheap -only $20 a month!!

**eve** · Jan 6th, 2005, 07:13 AM

You are right, MzNatural, but sadly when people are living below the poverty line, they can't be expected to think of reasonings behind cheap eggs, especially those who have never questioned anything. They certainly wouldn't be thinking of hormones pumped into the chickens, or the horrid sort of life those chooks had before they were slaughtered, and can we honestly expect people to spontaneously think of that themselves? I'm just recalling my own parents, when they were hard up, and they bought whatever was the cheapest items on the shelf of the grocer shop. With regards to those who consider that low prices are a blessing, well, isn't ignorance supposed to be bliss? Let us be thankful that we've left that ignorance behind.

**eve** · Jan 6th, 2005, 07:25 AM

About $150(Aus)/month on groceries for myself.

**feline01** · Jan 6th, 2005, 01:35 PM

kriz

I get my dinners delivered weekly by a vegan food service. It's $70 for a 5 day supply and it's enough food for 2 people (3 big main dishes + 5 side dishes and 1 soup).

I wish we had something like that here

!

**lvhatkent** · Jan 6th, 2005, 03:22 PM

I probably spend over $100 US on just myself, but I always have so much extra stuff in my house that I really could go at at least a month without shopping at all. I just can't resist good sales. Like, right now, the grocery store at the end of my street has Cascadian Farms frozen veggies for $1 per package. I'm sure I'll go up and by $20 or $30 worth, which will last for months.

The only things that I really ever buy processed are soymilk, vegan burgers & vegan hot dogs. I have a hard time making a good vegan burgers that don't fall apart on me and I'm not even going to attempt hot dogs. Other than that, I'm all about making my own ... it gives me control of the ingredients and I know exactly what's in it.

Leah

**Roxy** · Jan 6th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I spend about $500 - $600 per month. This is for me and half my boyfriend's food. He buys his own non-vegan food.

BTW - my groceries include not just food, but also, household and personal care products.

I buy organic (just about everything).

**Ruby Soho** · Jan 6th, 2005, 07:19 PM

I spend about £80 per week, but thats on pretty much everything (food for me and 2 small children, 2 dogs, 2 cats) inc. household stuff and toiletries.

About once a month I spend £30 on mail order vegan goodies such as ice creams, fudge, yeast pate, tahini, vegan hotdogs/burgers etc - as I cannot get anything from supermarkets near me other than basic stuff.

**kriz** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:27 PM

Feline,

These guys are great! I get my food every tuesday on my doorstep, and all I have to do is to leave a check for them

I got some meat eaters interested in their service too! I explain that the food can be in the fridge for many days before consumption because it's not meat. That usually settles the anxiety about the "weird vegan ideas." www.veginout.com

**feline01** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:33 PM

kriz

Feline,

These guys are great! I get my food every tuesday on my doorstep, and all I have to do is to leave a check for them

I got some meat eaters interested in their service too! I explain that the food can be in the fridge for many days before consumption because it's not meat. That usually settles the anxiety about the "weird vegan ideas." www.veginout.com

You CA vegans have all the luck

. There was a woman in NJ who used to do that for NJ/NYC but she moved and she was very, very expensive.

**kriz** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:35 PM

A good business for anyone interested starting something on their own. I think it would be very popular in other cities too.

**feline01** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:36 PM

kriz

A good business for anyone interested starting something on their own. I think it would be very popular in other cities too.

Wish I knew how to cook really well

**kriz** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:43 PM

California vegans are lucky.

**kriz** · Jan 6th, 2005, 08:57 PM

More vegan business are needed.

**Mystic** · Jan 6th, 2005, 09:49 PM

eve

About $150(Aus)/month on groceries for myself.

CRAP! I spend around $800 - $1000 per month for my boyfriend, Odi and myself - tell me your trick

- You are a breatharian right????

**Michelle** · Jan 7th, 2005, 02:44 AM

MzNatural

I only buy organic. I spend about $300 monthly, hardly any processed foods for myself. I make my own breads, nut/soy milk and nut butters. I still have vegetables growing in the garden. It has been in the 60’s here in Maryland.

MzNatural...wow!! I'm impressed!! I was wondering if you know where Cumberland MD is...I have in-laws living there and we just visited for the holiday.

**Michelle** · Jan 7th, 2005, 02:51 AM

kriz

I get my dinners delivered weekly by a vegan food service. It's $70 for a 5 day supply and it's enough food for 2 people (3 big main dishes + 4 side dishes and 1 soup). I spend a lot more weekly, probably $130 alltogether.

.. Oh, my whippet, he is very cheap -only $20 a month!!

This sounds like my kind of deal!! You spend about the same as I do...and that includes having dinners delivered? Am I reading that right?

Anyway...yeah...I spend about $125 per week for my husband and I and my toddler. I could do more or less, but that's about average.

**Leigh** · Jan 7th, 2005, 03:32 AM

I spend between $300 and $400 a month I guess. That's mostly just me, but my bf is over every weekend, so that feeds him too and it also includes the vegies I buy for my dogs. I don't really buy a lot of organic stuff though...

**eve** · Jan 7th, 2005, 07:30 AM

Banana

CRAP! I spend around $800 - $1000 per month for my boyfriend, Odi and myself - tell me your trick

- You are a breatharian right????

Hi Banana, no I'm not a breatharian, but I avoid health food stores like the plague, only going there once every 2 or 3 months to buy a pkt of Nutritional yeast flakes as they're not available anywhere else here. Rest of my groceries I buy at Woolworths, and don't buy anything I really can do without. I do buy peanuts at Woollies too, but mostly I eat fruit and veges. A loaf of Latvian rye bread lasts me a fortnight. I have fruit for brekkie, with a teaspoon of tahini on it and a dessertspoon of LSA, and moistened with Vitasoy. That doesn't cost much. Lunch time I whizz up some carrots and celery for a drink, and I add a dessertspoon of flaxseed oil, then a sandwich of homas, marmite, and tomatoes usually. I don't make an evening meal, but prefer to eat a bowl of peanuts, and sometimes have a mug of cocoa.

PinkFluffyCloud · Jan 7th, 2005, 09:57 AM

Eve, you are an inspiration, I will try and follow the 'Eve Shopping Philosophy' and see how I go.

I have started avoiding my nearest Health Food Shop. I used to buy Organic Sprouts there, but now grow my own. I order anything else on-line (which I can't get in 'mainstream' shops), to avoid temptation. I have stopped buying sweets and chocolates as I know I will just binge on them. I am washing everything, including my hair, with soap, now, after your suggestion, Eve. Thanks!

**Gorilla** · Jan 7th, 2005, 10:39 AM

Eve, it's funny that Woolworths in Australia sell food, whereas here Woolworths shops in the UK sell toys, CDs, homewares and other junk like that.

i buy all my dried wholefoods, e.g. lentils, beans, rice, nuts, dried fruit etc. from a shop in my local market which sells them by weight. they charge less if you bring your own containers to be refilled instead of them giving you a bag. it's all organic and really cheap - i can buy a couple of weeks' worth of these foods for less than £10. the rest of my money goes on fresh fruit and veg.

i don't buy many processed foods and i make my own soya milk (except i can't at the moment because my machine needs repairing!) - that saves me loads of money as cartons cost between 65p and £1.45 depending on where you shop, and making your own costs about 8p. i grow my own herbs, i'm going to start growing my own sprouts and have another go at growing my own veg in my garden once the weather warms up a bit, hope i'll have more luck than my previous attempts!

**foxytina_69** · Jan 7th, 2005, 01:18 PM

eve, what kind of soap do u use?

pfc, do u have any info on how to grow your own sprouts?

**eve** · Jan 8th, 2005, 06:00 AM

I use vegano vanilla soap - the ingredients list palm oil, kernel oil, water, macadamia oil, sodium chloride (don't know what that is), and sodium oxide (ditto). The 'blurb' says it combines the fragrance of vanilla with the moisturising effect of macadamia oil in a mild vegetable based soap suitable for the whole family, and no animal testing or ingredients. The soaps were a gift from a NSW vegan.

**assilembob** · Jan 9th, 2005, 08:12 PM

you know...when i get behind people at the local grocery store who are lugging two carts of food, i see mostly refined carbs, fatty meats, eggs, cheeses and junk food. They spend roughly $200 on food. A lot of these people go shopping like my family did, every two weeks. That food lasts them 2 weeks. They buy the cheapest foods.
When my best friend and I shop together (as in when he buys my groceries for me as he does often since I pay for other things) we spend areound $100 for both of us, and he buys that processed, fatty non-vegan food. I buy 90% produce with some convenience foods. He shops every two weeks. I go back each week (buying small things during if food spoils or if I decide I want something else) All together I spend around $100 a week on groceries just for me (that includes when he buys my stuff...!) I spend about the same amount on groceries for just one person that they do for four, sometimes more. It's frustrating to see someone be able to buy a huge family pack of meat for $5 and I spend that much or more on tomatos and lettuce. Produce is way to expensive. One day I was behind one of those families...they were all huge. They looked very unhealthy. I thankful for every day that I eat the way I do cause I have dropped a ton of weight. I would look like them. Spending that money may not be fair, but I think I will save on heart surgery later.

~Mel

**Mystic** · Jan 9th, 2005, 08:36 PM

Yes Mel - I also buy mainly fresh produce items like fruit and veg, plus things like bread, cereal, rice, barley and dried beans, some dates and a couple of other staples (baked beans etc...) and we spend around $150 on food per week - that is for two of us. I work at the supermarket and see people all the time who spend $200 for a whole family and get a hell of lot more - but it is all crap like fish fingers, white bread and macaroni cheese packets. It is unfair but at least our arteries are not getting clogged