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Thread: vegan community in croatia

  1. #1
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default vegan community in croatia

    i'm trying to gather people interested in forming vegan intentional community. i see it as egalitarian community with written basic rules and voting for concensus for other decisions. it will be organic farm, maybe permacultural, with possible sustainable side-occupations for income. members will form their homes alone, with family, friends or any way they like. so basically, land will be communal, dwellings separate with some shared buildings.

    land here in croatia is still cheap, before we enter european community (procedure is in motion). plough, meadow and mixed wood costs about 15.000 croatian kunas = 2.000 euros = 1.400 gbpounds = 2.500 usdollars per hectar (10.000m2). ground, air and water are amongst cleanest in europe. by studying other intentional communities around the world, i came to conclusion that half of hectare (roughly 1,2 acres) per one person is needed for comfortable living.

    i'm thinking about this all the time, but this is sceleton of idea only. so, please give me your willingness to join, or offer ideas and constructive comments.

  2. #2
    Jacqui's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Hi Vuycha
    Croatia is a too far away for me, but I like your idea. Good luck!
    You may find this thread and the links interesting. I did. http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...ight=auroville

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    Melissa assilembob's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    That sounds fab! good luck. I am sure you will find plenty of people who want to uproot. There is some website somewhere about starting a vegan utopia on an island...can't for the life of me remember the link.
    ~Mel

    "Sweet songs the youth, the wise, the meaning of all wisdom...to believe in the good in man" - Legend

  4. #4
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote Jacqui
    Hi Vuycha
    Croatia is a too far away for me, but I like your idea. Good luck!
    You may find this thread and the links interesting. I did. http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...ight=auroville
    that's great thread! thank you.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  5. #5
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote assilembob
    That sounds fab! good luck. I am sure you will find plenty of people who want to uproot. There is some website somewhere about starting a vegan utopia on an island...can't for the life of me remember the link.
    thank you . i know for two similar projects, one is already existing vegan eco-village in hawaii - here is the link http://www.g0v.org/ - and the other one is that island dream you mentioned, link is http://www.veganic.com/main.html.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  6. #6
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Sounds interesting Vuycha.

    But why do you want to create a vegan eco-village if already 3 exists (Auroville, VeganIC in project and gOv)? What your eco-village will have of different?

    I personally think it's a great idea especially for the cost of the land in Croatia. With other vegan eco-villages, the problems I thought was the altitude of this eco-villages situated on island. Actually and for our lives it might not be a problem with luck, but if you want the eco-village to stand for a couple of centuries maybe, if you're optimistic, you'll need somewhere on a higher altitude due to the greenhouse effect who is actually making glaciers melt and rising the sea level... I'm not beeing pessimistic, this is a REAL problem which will happen, we've seen so far some phenomens due to greenhouse effect (tsunami in Asia, hurricanes in USA, etc.). So I think having a vegan eco-village situated on higher latitude, for example on fertile plateaux (moutains, etc...) would be a good idea.

    I thought of Switzerland in the past as a good place to build an eco-village. What do you think about that? In Switzerland it's not a legal obligation to put your children to public school as it is in other countries (and I think public school corrupt partly children of vegans).

    Do you know Barbara? She's a slavic Vegan activist and I think she lives in Zagreb. She might be interested, I may contact her if you want.

    We need to discuss about that but the project seem interesting for me...

    All the best,

  7. #7
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    hi geysir111

    i'm trying to form vegan community in this particular part of the world because all the others are quite distanced from europe. it will be more convenient for europeans to join or visit us. i'll try first to do that here in croatia because i know all the factors important for such a project. other thing is, entering capital for that carribean island is $50.000 - too much for a large crowd of interested people. maybe i'll have opportunity in couple of months to buy 15 hectares of first-class, mediterran climate-positioned land for about 30.000 euros. of course, i think i'll need at least two more investers to pay that and still save some money for the rest of the project. we can accomodate 20 people on that land.

    i think i know barbara from local a.r. forum, if we talk about same person. she posted as a guest so i don't have her e-mail address. yes, please, tell her about my plans and also about this forum, she will join us maybe .

    i'd love to talk about this some more as i see this as my life project, so feel free to post or pm your comments and suggestions.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  8. #8
    geysir111
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    Lightbulb Re: vegan community in croatia

    Hi vuycha!

    I agree with the need of a vegan eco-village in Europe. I've visit the website of the vegan Island Community and it seems good... for rich vegans... why don't they ask Moby to join them...

    So you'll have maybe the opportunity in a couple of months? Marvellous! I hope it'll be allright.

    The number of people seems allright, 20 people is not too small, and not too big

    I know the honourable Barbara personaly but I don't have her email address, I met her at the running of the nudes in Pamplona (BIG anti-bullfighting demo in Spain run by pEtA). I'll get her email address or phone as soon as I can and will contact her. By the way, I don't know if I can, but I would like to invite as much people as possible from here to the running of the nudes, because we need to be as much as possible to save the bulls from inhumane torture. www.runningofthenudes.com

    Personally, I would like to help you as much as possible in this project. How much do you think it will cost per personn for the part of the land, the house, etc...?

    I'm thinking of the main issues related to the creation of this eco-village: Architectural skill of at least one personn (if not you would need to pay an architect), vegetable farming for most of the vegans who live there (I've been working in an ecovillage, farming vegetables for 2 months in the past), house building, administrativ skills of at least someone.

    What would be the inner rules of the village? I hope you intend to decide about some rules (respect of all lives, etc...). And what about the language?

    You would use green power (solar, wind or water powerplants)? or no energy at all? Would you think the village as a complete autarky? half-autarky? or just beeing a part of the rest of Croatia? would you think about having cars and machines? I hope for you at least a computer in the village. And what about children? Home education? or putting them to school? Hum... I have no other queries for the moment...

    All the best,

  9. #9
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    I agree with the need of a vegan eco-village in Europe. I've visit the website of the vegan Island Community and it seems good... for rich vegans... why don't they ask Moby to join them...

    hi
    yes, it's good not only for convenience but also for financial availability. setting so high financial standards is discriminatory and thats against my religion

    So you'll have maybe the opportunity in a couple of months? Marvellous! I hope it'll be allright.

    i don't know the exact sum yet, my friend will ask in a couple of days. it all depends of how many investing members we find

    I know the honourable Barbara personaly but I don't have her email address, I met her at the running of the nudes in Pamplona (BIG anti-bullfighting demo in Spain run by pEtA). I'll get her email address or phone as soon as I can and will contact her. By the way, I don't know if I can, but I would like to invite as much people as possible from here to the running of the nudes, because we need to be as much as possible to save the bulls from inhumane torture. www.runningofthenudes.com

    croatian organization ''animal friends'' is involved, i think they participate traditionally in european ar projects. check out the www on my profile page

    Personally, I would like to help you as much as possible in this project. How much do you think it will cost per personn for the part of the land, the house, etc...?

    thank you. i calculated average land cost in the first post. for funding members it will be higher i think because you can't get the exact size like you need, it's dictated by seller. with bigger parcel and fewer members - higher the cost per member. prices of settlement depends on the type of desired house. settlements may be improvised in the beginning for members with limited funds - used montage wood barrack 5x7 m is 500-800 euros. then there is issue of machinery, tools, seed, electricity, phone etc. let's say 4 people on 4 hectares parcel with humble settlement, good second-hand tractor and truck - about 6.000 euros. every new member - price is dropping.

    I'm thinking of the main issues related to the creation of this eco-village: Architectural skill of at least one personn (if not you would need to pay an architect), vegetable farming for most of the vegans who live there (I've been working in an ecovillage, farming vegetables for 2 months in the past), house building, administrativ skills of at least someone.

    by the croatian law you can't built your house alone any more. you must hire registered contractor with crew. but, montage houses, underground houses and similar constructions are not included in this law. for that, you don't even need the building approvement. self-sufficiency with vegan food is must and one of the basic rules. for building i count on help from local eco-group i already contacted. they have also experience in organic farming and sustainable energy sources (second phase). one future member (without the funds, unfortunatelly) is economist by education so that's covered. of course, more people more skills and knowledge.

    What would be the inner rules of the village? I hope you intend to decide about some rules (respect of all lives, etc...). And what about the language?

    for now, only basic rules - vegan community (no animal exploitation), egalitarism (one member, one voice), tolerance, decisions by concensus (voting), sustainability (maybe permaculture, not necessary). internal language - english, external - croatian. welcoming the visitors as potential members, volunteers and potential vegans when they see how good we live

    You would use green power (solar, wind or water powerplants)? or no energy at all? Would you think the village as a complete autarky? half-autarky? or just beeing a part of the rest of Croatia? would you think about having cars and machines? I hope for you at least a computer in the village. And what about children? Home education? or putting them to school? Hum... I have no other queries for the moment...

    sustainability wherever is possible. on the grid, of course, with green energies as we grow and develop. machinery, with biodiesel when and as much as possible. computers as communicating and learning devices will be must. community will be registered in shape as we decide (co-op, non-profit org., citizen society, company), i have veggie lawyer working on possibilities for free. she will help with bylaws and registrations too . families with children welcomed, home education is not allowed in croatia yet, for now we have two waldorf schools in zagreb and rijeka. the rest are usual elementary schools.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  10. #10
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    yes, it's good not only for convenience but also for financial availability. setting so high financial standards is discriminatory and thats against my religion


    What religion are you if you don't mind saying it? I have no problems with any religion even if I'm agnostic. Hum if there is enough believers in one religion, you might think about construct a temple/church/shrine/mosk/...

    by the croatian law you can't built your house alone any more. you must hire registered contractor with crew. but, montage houses, underground houses and similar constructions are not included in this law. for that, you don't even need the building approvement. self-sufficiency with vegan food is must and one of the basic rules. for building i count on help from local eco-group i already contacted. they have also experience in organic farming and sustainable energy sources (second phase). one future member (without the funds, unfortunatelly) is economist by education so that's covered. of course, more people more skills and knowledge.
    What are montage houses? Underground houses might be a solution as well but doesn't it coast too much to build a house completely underground? About Self-sufficiency, how would you do with people who do not have big farmin abilities and aren't use to work the earth. Would you think about a greenhouse or some specifical buildings to farm soja for example.

    for now, only basic rules - vegan community (no animal exploitation), egalitarism (one member, one voice), tolerance, decisions by concensus (voting), sustainability (maybe permaculture, not necessary). internal language - english, external - croatian. welcoming the visitors as potential members, volunteers and potential vegans when they see how good we live


    When you mean egalitarism, I think it's a really good point but in all societies, we can divide them in individualistic societies (most western societies as in USA, UE, UK, Canada, Scandinavia, etc.) and collectivist societies (most other societies as in Japan, India, China, Africa, etc.). What type of society of view of the individual would you choose? If you want to know more about what I mean by individualistic and collectivist societies, you may have a look on the web or in a library for social psychology references. I would really like to know about this point to see if you will consider rather the village as a whole and each member beeing an indisociable part of the village, or rather the village beeing a community formed of several individuals, each different with their own aims and goals? About languages, forming people to learn croatian AND english would be a need I think but it's only a secondary objectiv isn't it?

    machinery, with biodiesel when and as much as possible.


    I thought biodiesel was polluting? Does it pollute less? Why not thinking about some polution-free machines? and why isn't possible a community with very very few machines? E.G.: tractors aren't really needed i think and I don't think tractors are vegans because by ploughing the ground, tractors kills animals, worms, etc... I mean it's more than cars so...

    families with children welcomed, home education is not allowed in croatia yet, for now we have two waldorf schools in zagreb and rijeka.
    Home education is not allowed? that seems strange and if you'd follow the education programm from the governement it would be possible wouldn't it? If it's really not allow, that's a shame and I think the way europeans countries gows now, it will stay like that... it's a problem I think... In France (not sure) and for sure in Switzerland, it is allowed.

    What are waldorf schools???

    And what about the altitude of the eco-village? Do you have an idea? Would it be coastal? I hope not? on grassland? near a forest?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    What religion are you if you don't mind saying it? I have no problems with any religion even if I'm agnostic. Hum if there is enough believers in one religion, you might think about construct a temple/church/shrine/mosk/...


    it was meant as joke. i'm atheist, and i really thought ''ideology'' or ethical viewpoint. all good-intentioned religions are welcome, constructing of religious objects is matter of possible need in far future.

    What are montage houses? Underground houses might be a solution as well but doesn't it coast too much to build a house completely underground? About Self-sufficiency, how would you do with people who do not have big farmin abilities and aren't use to work the earth. Would you think about a greenhouse or some specifical buildings to farm soja for example.


    montage houses are wood houses builded with prefabricated elements and they can be dismantled and rebuilded in different location again. no special skills are necessary. underground houses can be built for pretty modest sum as seen here http://www.undergroundhousing.com/index.html. people will learn necessary skills like organic agroculture from more experienced members and volunters i mentioned before. people around the world work they gardens for thousands of years, so nobody need to be brain surgeon.

    When you mean egalitarism, I think it's a really good point but in all societies, we can divide them in individualistic societies (most western societies as in USA, UE, UK, Canada, Scandinavia, etc.) and collectivist societies (most other societies as in Japan, India, China, Africa, etc.). What type of society of view of the individual would you choose? If you want to know more about what I mean by individualistic and collectivist societies, you may have a look on the web or in a library for social psychology references. I would really like to know about this point to see if you will consider rather the village as a whole and each member beeing an indisociable part of the village, or rather the village beeing a community formed of several individuals, each different with their own aims and goals? About languages, forming people to learn croatian AND english would be a need I think but it's only a secondary objectiv isn't it?

    land, machines, crops, communal buildings and projects will be communal. homesteads will be private. members can have one kitchen for all or some meals, arrange for one member to cook or rotate in that etc., all matter of future members agreement. i have one future participant for now, he is without cash (he must sell some property) so we are open for all combinations. english in international community will be must as internal language. if you don't communicate with local people too much as individual, croatian is optional.



    I thought biodiesel was polluting? Does it pollute less? Why not thinking about some polution-free machines? and why isn't possible a community with very very few machines? E.G.: tractors aren't really needed i think and I don't think tractors are vegans because by ploughing the ground, tractors kills animals, worms, etc... I mean it's more than cars so...


    biodiesel is considered (relatively) non-polluting fuel, like all biomass-derived fuels. there is no much soil disturbing in organic farming, soil is lose by adding compost and mulching small parcels. and permaculture is one of the options.

    Home education is not allowed? that seems strange and if you'd follow the education programm from the governement it would be possible wouldn't it? If it's really not allow, that's a shame and I think the way europeans countries gows now, it will stay like that... it's a problem I think... In France (not sure) and for sure in Switzerland, it is allowed.

    What are waldorf schools???

    i don't know any european country that allow it. by ''allowed'' i really mean ''regulated''. i think some kids on croatian far islands have radio-communications with classes, it's even a video-conference in one case, i'm not sure, but that's only in specific situations. we'll see what european law brings for future.

    And what about the altitude of the eco-village? Do you have an idea? Would it be coastal? I hope not? on grassland? near a forest?

    that 15 hectares parcel is settled on istra peninsula some 35 km from shore line. there are various possibilities in croatia from shore to mountain, from rock to swamp. i can't and don't want make decisions without people.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  12. #12
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    montage houses are wood houses builded with prefabricated elements and they can be dismantled and rebuilded in different location again. no special skills are necessary. underground houses can be built for pretty modest sum as seen here http://www.undergroundhousing.com/index.html. people will learn necessary skills like organic agroculture from more experienced members and volunters i mentioned before. people around the world work they gardens for thousands of years, so nobody need to be brain surgeon.


    Ok cool, I've seen the website about underground houses. Do you think completely underground houses exist? I've seen a documentary on TV with completely underground houses where you would only see the ground while you watching from above ground, people wouldn't realize that they were on the top of the house of someone... I don't know if you see what I mean...

    i don't know any european country that allow it. by ''allowed'' i really mean ''regulated''. i think some kids on croatian far islands have radio-communications with classes, it's even a video-conference in one case, i'm not sure, but that's only in specific situations. we'll see what european law brings for future.


    When you'll create the eco-village, are you sure to want to create it in Croatia? Is that definitiv? I don't mind but I would like to know...

    that 15 hectares parcel is settled on istra peninsula some 35 km from shore line. there are various possibilities in croatia from shore to mountain, from rock to swamp. i can't and don't want make decisions without people.
    I like your project and might be interested in joining you in a middle future... I'm student actually so it would be after my studies, in a couple of years... and after having gathered a bit of money, i'll see then but definitly my dream of life is to live without money in a vegan eco-village. Would you take a parcel with a river in it? Will the members of the community work in the village to live on their own or will they work outside, coming back by car, etc.?

    What are waldorf schools?

    Love,

  13. #13
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Ok cool, I've seen the website about underground houses. Do you think completely underground houses exist? I've seen a documentary on TV with completely underground houses where you would only see the ground while you watching from above ground, people wouldn't realize that they were on the top of the house of someone... I don't know if you see what I mean...


    i didn't see that documentary, but they exist. you can only see shrubs or small hill where roof window or door is. you can even stand on the roof but not knowing. then there are half-buried houses. possibilities are endless, just as they are sustainable. wooden houses can be combined with cob (mixture of sand, clay and straw with water) and straw-bale insulation. very nice links:

    http://weblife.org/humanure/default.html complete ''humanure handbook'' by joe jenkins, about compost toilets, termophilic composting and composting humanure

    http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/messages/messages/board-topics.html discussion board about above-mentioned book and themes

    http://weblife.org/cob/ cob builders handbook, complete online book

    When you'll create the eco-village, are you sure to want to create it in Croatia? Is that definitiv? I don't mind but I would like to know...


    yes. combination of factors are unbeatable

    I like your project and might be interested in joining you in a middle future... I'm student actually so it would be after my studies, in a couple of years... and after having gathered a bit of money, i'll see then but definitly my dream of life is to live without money in a vegan eco-village. Would you take a parcel with a river in it? Will the members of the community work in the village to live on their own or will they work outside, coming back by car, etc.?

    cool . we will take any available parcel that satisfies our criteria. some wood would be nice. stream on property, that's too much

    What are waldorf schools?

    i thought you forget about this . really doesn't matter, it's a liberal type of school, check it out via google, i think it's franchise. i mentioned it just as example of non-mainstream school.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  14. #14
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    http://weblife.org/humanure/default.html complete ''humanure handbook'' by joe jenkins, about compost toilets, termophilic composting and composting humanure
    What about anti-atomic war and military technologies available to public? I've read about some organic chemical toilets who are really sustainable and "luxurous"... Have you heard about that? I think you may found some interesting information if you're lookinf on the Web in that sector...

    cool . we will take any available parcel that satisfies our criteria. some wood would be nice. stream on property, that's too much
    What about water supply? Do you really intend to buy water from the government? I think you may found some streams or rivers in some parcels... higher there are, purer they are and because water brings life... higher you'll go ...

    Have you thought about financial matters? If you consider that the village will have to grow, you would have at least to produce some income from the village (agriculture, artwork, power, water, etc...)? What will be the incomestreams? I can see the investment in the begining, and after the village upkeep costs so the village would need an incomestream...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    What about anti-atomic war and military technologies available to public? I've read about some organic chemical toilets who are really sustainable and "luxurous"... Have you heard about that? I think you may found some interesting information if you're lookinf on the Web in that sector...


    i think sawdust option is easiest, cleanest and cheapest of all

    What about water supply? Do you really intend to buy water from the government? I think you may found some streams or rivers in some parcels...

    of course we will need water on site, i was joking. you can't have agriculture without your own water. here you have clean underground water on every step.


    Have you thought about financial matters? If you consider that the village will have to grow, you would have at least to produce some income from the village (agriculture, artwork, power, water, etc...)? What will be the incomestreams? I can see the investment in the begining, and after the village upkeep costs so the village would need an incomestream...

    income is the must for any community. selling our products will be best. some members would maybe decide to go to work outside of community or to have other source of income (artwork, online job etc.). all of that is open to agreement.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  16. #16
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    income is the must for any community. selling our products will be best. some members would maybe decide to go to work outside of community or to have other source of income (artwork, online job etc.). all of that is open to agreement.


    Personally I don't think it's environmentaly-friendly to work for a company which pollutes the environment but it's your project after all, I am not that keen about the idea of people working for companies outside, it depends of their jobs... Why not having eco-porno (like the group fuck for the forest) or eco-whores and eco-gigolos... It would be a nice way to get money...... just kidding

    More seriously, shall it be a gay-friendly village? I'm heterosexual personally but by experience, I think there's a bigger proportion of homosexuals into vegan people than into omnivorians people. I'm thinking about a vegan couple of lesbians who might be interested into this project.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Personally I don't think it's environmentaly-friendly to work for a company which pollutes the environment but it's your project after all, ...


    outside job don't necessary means working for corporation

    More seriously, shall it be a gay-friendly village? I'm heterosexual personally but by experience, I think there's a bigger proportion of homosexuals into vegan people than into omnivorians people. I'm thinking about a vegan couple of lesbians who might be interested into this project.

    absolutely must be open to all good-intended people. i'm hetero but i don't think i'll be comfortable around homofobic people or any other discrimination. i don't think there is connection between veganism and homosexuality. by all means, call your friends. only condition is, they must be on the side of light, young jedi
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  18. #18
    mango
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    I might be interested, not immediately but maybe in a few years' time. I'm about to start training as a teacher, will be qualified in about 3 years. Also have experience of organic gardening.

    I think having a certain minimum number of members is essential to start with. I've seen quite a few attempts at community projects that are stuck with very few and end up with a bit of a depressing atmosphere. The only really successful one I've seen - although it wasn't the right place for me (not vegan) had I think about 40 members, adults and children.

    Is there a fresh water supply (i.e. well or spring) on the land you're looking at? That's one of the most important things for me.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote mango
    I might be interested, not immediately but maybe in a few years' time. I'm about to start training as a teacher, will be qualified in about 3 years. Also have experience of organic gardening.

    I think having a certain minimum number of members is essential to start with. I've seen quite a few attempts at community projects that are stuck with very few and end up with a bit of a depressing atmosphere. The only really successful one I've seen - although it wasn't the right place for me (not vegan) had I think about 40 members, adults and children.

    Is there a fresh water supply (i.e. well or spring) on the land you're looking at? That's one of the most important things for me.
    hey mango,
    i think once when community start, more people will be atracted because they'll have opportunity to visit and check things out first. some 4-5 people will be ideal to start with, and then invite people to visit or join.

    i agree that good source of drinkable water on site is necessary. that's not a problem here, as biggest part of croatia is on karst with large quantities of clear water. if you are asking about that 15 hectares parcel i mentioned, that's off - owner asks for incredible sum. but that's not a problem, plenty of good land is available.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  20. #20
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote vuycha
    hey mango,
    i think once when community start, more people will be atracted because they'll have opportunity to visit and check things out first. some 4-5 people will be ideal to start with, and then invite people to visit or join.

    i agree that good source of drinkable water on site is necessary. that's not a problem here, as biggest part of croatia is on karst with large quantities of clear water. if you are asking about that 15 hectares parcel i mentioned, that's off - owner asks for incredible sum. but that's not a problem, plenty of good land is available.
    Mango might been right, thou oughtest begin the community with more than 4 or 5 people... But if thou choosest to begin the community with just 4 or 5 people, it might work as well... I'm quite confident if things are well planned...

    Art thou sure to choose a coastal land then? As thou saidst, there's hills and mountains in Croatia who might even been cheapest due to the fact that tourists wanting to buy some place often prefer coastal croatian places... And thou wouldst be able to find out some higher lands with rivers or streams... What are thy thinkings about it?

    All the best,

  21. #21
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote geysir111
    Mango might been right, thou oughtest begin the community with more than 4 or 5 people... But if thou choosest to begin the community with just 4 or 5 people, it might work as well... I'm quite confident if things are well planned...

    Art thou sure to choose a coastal land then? As thou saidst, there's hills and mountains in Croatia who might even been cheapest due to the fact that tourists wanting to buy some place often prefer coastal croatian places... And thou wouldst be able to find out some higher lands with rivers or streams... What are thy thinkings about it?

    All the best,
    i don't mind more people, but as you see everybody is rushing to join . i'll prefer 10 people for start better than 4, just send them if you know some .

    as i said to you in pm, that coastal parcel is no-go due to overcost. continental area is more afordable so probably it will be northern region (roughly, between bosnia and hungary). find via google map of croatia and look for cities in northern region - krizevci, koprivnica, pozega, daruvar.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  22. #22
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Ok i've seen the area thou toldt me about on a topographical map of Croatia... This area (Slavonia hills) seems a nice area... What about a place in Krajina or Dalmatia mountains? Is that cheap as well? Is there some rivers and streams in that part of Croatia? I especially think about the mountains at about 20km on North-East of Rijeka city. I'd like to have thy thoughts about these areas...

    Just to get thee an idea, I lived in an eco-village (non-vegetarian but we were 2 vegetarians in it) in Iceland:

    www.solheimar.is There is little explanations in english as well

  23. #23
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote geysir111
    Ok i've seen the area thou toldt me about on a topographical map of Croatia... This area (Slavonia hills) seems a nice area... What about a place in Krajina or Dalmatia mountains? Is that cheap as well? Is there some rivers and streams in that part of Croatia? I especially think about the mountains at about 20km on North-East of Rijeka city. I'd like to have thy thoughts about these areas...

    Just to get thee an idea, I lived in an eco-village (non-vegetarian but we were 2 vegetarians in it) in Iceland:

    www.solheimar.is There is little explanations in english as well
    yes, that mountain in slavonia, name is 'papuk' is quite nice in the lower regions. you can't go higher because it's under snow 8 months in year. krajina is very bad mentality, lot of grudges from war and xenofobic people. dalmatia mountains is pure rock and wind. that mountain north of rijeka is national park 'risnjak'. i don't know how is regulated living in national parks, but you can't go above some altitudes because of climate (snow cover too long). look, i spend hours contemplating speciffic issues about regions. here are some factors i looked into

    - price of land
    - type/quality of land
    - quality of water
    - climate
    - mentality of local people
    - polluting industry in area

    i want best of all factors. i'm born and living here all my life and i know much about croatia. unfortunatelly, you can't guess things by looking into maps or pictures. there are lot of hidden facts you must know when deciding about this. that's one of the reasons i want to do this just here . please go on with your thoughts and suggestions about structure, business and activities and similar issues. more people knows more. if you are interested in statutes, look in google phrase ''intentional community bylaws'' or similar.

    what are you studying? (you can send me pm)

    i'll see into that community in your link, thank you. always willing to learn on other people's experiences .
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  24. #24
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Hi vuycha,

    Sorry, i didnt want to sound like thou didst not know the situation... I feel thee quite confident with these matters and I believe you know most of the factors...

    I was just wondering about the areas available in Croatia...

    What's the temperature in Winter in Croatia? so what doest thou think about Slavonia Mountain then?

    I'm in my first year of Public Relations (3 years degree). I think I will have the skills to work in french obviously, probably in english as well with a lower efficiency, but in croatian... I don't even know one word in croatian... It would be interesting to learn it... Is it the same script than russian? I learned russian 3 years ago and could say a few words and read russian.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote geysir111
    Hi vuycha,

    Sorry, i didnt want to sound like thou didst not know the situation... I feel thee quite confident with these matters and I believe you know most of the factors...

    I was just wondering about the areas available in Croatia...

    What's the temperature in Winter in Croatia? so what doest thou think about Slavonia Mountain then?

    I'm in my first year of Public Relations (3 years degree). I think I will have the skills to work in french obviously, probably in english as well with a lower efficiency, but in croatian... I don't even know one word in croatian... It would be interesting to learn it... Is it the same script than russian? I learned russian 3 years ago and could say a few words and read russian.
    no problem bro, just believe me for that particular detail in choosing general area. when comes to speciffic actions, everybody directly involved will have her/his voice from that moment on, that's the point of community. i certanly don't want to establish 'autarchy'' as you asked .

    continental temperatures in winter are from +10 down to -20, depends of area and altitude. for example, that area from mountain north of city rijeka you specified, to region ''krajina'', is covered in snow long period. good enough for cattle keepers, not good for vegan's business. that area from slavonian mountain 'papuk' south to bosnian border (river sava) will be best, i think, considering all abovementioned factors.

    croatian don't have much similarities with russian, couple of words. they wrote cirilic, we have latin letters. don't worry, we'll talk in english. you'll learn basic croatian if you would be interested, i can pick some french from you. there is slight possibility that one woman from sweden join us, when she returns from her travel in india and nepal. mango from u.k. declared interest, maybe my friend croatian from local vege forum. so obviously, english is common language, yes?
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  26. #26
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    when comes to speciffic actions, everybody directly involved will have her/his voice from that moment on, that's the point of community. i certanly don't want to establish 'autarchy'' as you asked .
    Hi Vuycha,

    When I was talking about autarky, I meant the situation of not engaging in international trade; self-sufficiency. (Not to be confused with "autarchy", which mean the same but in at least some dictionaries is a political term rather than an economic one, and means absolute rule or power)

    So I hope it'll be autarkic as far as possible.

    croatian don't have much similarities with russian, couple of words. they wrote cirilic, we have latin letters. don't worry, we'll talk in english. you'll learn basic croatian if you would be interested, i can pick some french from you. there is slight possibility that one woman from sweden join us, when she returns from her travel in india and nepal. mango from u.k. declared interest, maybe my friend croatian from local vege forum. so obviously, english is common language, yes?
    Ok, I'm interested to learn croatian, but if I decide to go and live in your eco-village, I'll be very interested to learn croatian as best as possible, just because public relations could be hardly brought into action without knowing the necessary language.

    What about the inner rules? Would they apply to everybody who is in the community? Or would it apply to the land AND to the people living inside, even when they're outside of the village. I would understand that the rules apply to the members even when they're outside, other members would be quite sad if they knew that one of them actually goes in the omni city and eats meat yonder. And what about human life? Would thou forbid all harm, violence and killing onto other innocent humans? I don't know if thou knowest what I'm meaning, but I wouldn't be that keen if I come yonder to know that I live for 2 years with a women and one day learning that she would have gone in the hospital and killed her unborn baby just because she didn't want him/her. So epitomizing, what about abortion? Even if members choose that the hamlet has to be pro-choice, I think I would be ok and could cope with it.

    All the best.

  27. #27
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote geysir111
    What about the inner rules? ... Would thou forbid ...
    rules will be as we all establish them as a collective of equals. i don't see myself as a leader or forbidder.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

  28. #28
    geysir111
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    He he ok, thou will not be the ruler of the land, but I was wondering what was thy opinions on these matters

  29. #29
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote geysir111
    He he ok, thou will not be the ruler of the land, but I was wondering what was thy opinions on these matters
    oh yes, i'm pro choice. i hope you'll not found yourself betrayed after two years of relationship, as you wrote example. community rules can't help anyone in such matter.
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    hello vuycha~i"m glad to hear of your efforts to create vegan community in croatia!The more vegan dedicated land the better,no matter where it is!I have practised self sufficiency and agree 5000sq m is about right for 1 person,excluding firewood and tree planting.I would love to hear more of your intentions and international feedback,from others.My plan is to leave uk and travel europe,visit people and using my land/mechanical skills to help animals and emerging vegancommunity!Vuycha and anyone else "out there" tell me more~ eat well and responsible~ Vincent

  31. #31
    vuycha's Avatar
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    Default Re: vegan community in croatia

    Quote vincent View Post
    hello vuycha~i"m glad to hear of your efforts to create vegan community in croatia!The more vegan dedicated land the better,no matter where it is!I have practised self sufficiency and agree 5000sq m is about right for 1 person,excluding firewood and tree planting.I would love to hear more of your intentions and international feedback,from others.My plan is to leave uk and travel europe,visit people and using my land/mechanical skills to help animals and emerging vegancommunity!Vuycha and anyone else "out there" tell me more~ eat well and responsible~ Vincent
    Hi Vincent,

    unfortunately, I almost gave up on this project due to lack of serious interest. I posted my idea on our (AFC) mailing list year ago and get many supportive mails, but nobody was willing to start something. People are understandably careful, everybody expect for me to start alone and to see how situation will develop, but I don't have money, skills and will/courage to start alone.

    Btw, moneywise everything is still the same. We are still some 3 years away from EU, so land is cheap. Everybody is running to cities in search for job so entire villages are occasionally for sale (literally).

    Good luck with your travel,

    vuycha
    http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/index.en.php

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