Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: Casein?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    11

    Default Casein?

    i was look at the ingredients of some soy cheese that my mom bought for me, and one of the ingredients is "Casein" and it says it's a milk protein. i'm confused on as to if this actually comes from a cow or if it's something else.

  2. #2
    Melissa assilembob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Killeen, Tx. USA
    Posts
    265

    Default Re: Casein?

    it's from a cow. most soy cheese is not vegan.
    ~Mel

    "Sweet songs the youth, the wise, the meaning of all wisdom...to believe in the good in man" - Legend

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Casein?

    thanks for the info, though if most soy cheese isn't vegan, then who are they margetting towards? that just doesn't make sense to me. but yeah, i really know what vegan cheese will taste like, but i'll find out eventually i guess. be well.

  4. #4
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Warwickshire, UK
    Posts
    2,639

    Default Re: Casein?

    lactose intollerants.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Casein?

    i guess...but it seems silly to have it be soy based but then just kind of throw in some cow. what does the casein do anyway?

  6. #6
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: Casein?

    I believe casein helps it melt and be more realistic to regular cheese.

    Soy cheese is also marketed towards "health concious" omnivores and lacto-ovo vegetarians who may want to limit their dairy consumption (but not entirely).
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  7. #7
    snaffler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Somerset / UK
    Posts
    847

    Default Re: Casein?

    On UK based note all our popular soy cheese is 100% vegan and VS apporved, that is wrong that they are using animal products in the US sorry to hear that guys.
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams

  8. #8
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: Casein?

    Yeah, it's quite frustrating as a new vegan. There's a few brands that call themselves "Veggie Cheese"...which is even more confusing for a lot of new vegans.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  9. #9
    SandraD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    44

    Default Re: Casein?

    I read that casein, well when it's separated from milk it's a glue. The glue that keeps the sticker on a beer bottle and holds furniture together. Seems like it would do ghastly things to your insides.

    I believe I read that on either notmilk.com or milksucks.com
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Kant

  10. #10
    kriz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at home
    Posts
    768

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote Mr Flibble View Post
    lactose intollerants.
    Casien can also trigger reaction in lactose intolerant individuals.... so it seems to me that they market to vegetarians not vegans and dairy intolerants. But that makes no sense either because vegetarians do eat dairy....
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  11. #11
    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Atlantic Canada
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: Casein?

    My boyfriend is a lacto vegetarian and he tries to limit his dairy. He's not ready to go full vegan yet but he choses products like Amy's tofu lasagna (contains casein) over their cheese lasagna, for example. He's slowly trying to limit his dairy consumption and I guess that's a way that works for him.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  12. #12
    Seaside
    Guest

    Default Re: Casein?

    There are also people who don't want cholesterol or saturated fat. Those are the people the whole "fake" meat and cheese industry got started for in the beginning, except for Loma Linda, the Seventh Day Adventists' line of facsimile products.

    Casein gets altered by the liver into casomorphins (as in morphine, the drug), which cause mild addiction in baby animals. Its what keeps them wanting to nurse, and makes weaning quite a chore for most mothers. Its also what addicts people to animal milk and milk products.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Casein?

    I had the hardest time finding soy cheese without Casein in it. It was like a treasure hunt.
    "Oh play her nicely, Let the world fall apart for you."

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: Casein?

    When I first turned vegan my dad (in an attempt to be supportive) bought me Veggie Cheese and I read the lable wondering what was in it. I think the third ingredient had "milk derivitive" in parentheses so I had to tell him I couldn't use it. I'm betting it was casein.
    I see the stuff whenever I go out shopping now because it's in what I consider the vegan section (ie. vegan fake-meats, tofu, hummus, various organic veggies, vegan ready-made dinners, etc.).

  15. #15
    I eve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    2,210

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote Seaside View Post
    Casein gets altered by the liver into casomorphins (as in morphine, the drug), which cause mild addiction in baby animals. Its what keeps them wanting to nurse, and makes weaning quite a chore for most mothers. Its also what addicts people to animal milk and milk products.
    Casein is the reason that cheese is so addictive, and many vegans find it the hardest food to give up. Yesterday a friend told me she has been putting on weight lately, and then she mentioned a new gorgeous cheese. I suggested it may be the cheese is the cause of her weight increase. I did say that cheese is more addictive than cigarettes or heroin. She denied this but said she would never give up cheese. Hmmm.

    Incidentally there is a vegan soycheese here that is totally vegan, made by Kingland. There's also an American cheese we occasionally get, Tofutti, that is apparently vegan.
    Eve

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Dawlish, Devon
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Casein?

    I have heard that vegan lactose is being manufactured from maize, and I have been unsuccessfully trying to obtain some to experiment making a true vegan cheese using combined vegan milks and vegan cultures. Can anyone offer pointers - I'd be so grateful.
    ____
    Chris

  17. #17
    stargazer
    Guest

    Default Re: Casein?

    "follow your Heart' brand makes many different varieties of truly Vegan cheese. It is the only one I buy. They also make a fantastic 'mayo' sandwich spread substitute, that is so good it really is superior to any 'real' mayo

  18. #18
    Good sperm
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sarf Lahndn
    Posts
    851

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote eve
    Casein is the reason that cheese is so addictive, and many vegans find it the hardest food to give up. Yesterday a friend told me she has been putting on weight lately, and then she mentioned a new gorgeous cheese. I suggested it may be the cheese is the cause of her weight increase. I did say that cheese is more addictive than cigarettes or heroin. She denied this but said she would never give up cheese
    Yup, it stimulates the release of opiates into the brain, just like heroin. Chocolate does the same, as does alcohol and many addictive drugs. It's not that you're addicted to them, you're addicted to your body's response to them. It's why many people crave these things and can eat and eat and eat them, especially as comfort foods.

  19. #19
    msbliss
    Guest

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote stargazer View Post
    "follow your Heart' brand makes many different varieties of truly Vegan cheese. It is the only one I buy. They also make a fantastic 'mayo' sandwich spread substitute, that is so good it really is superior to any 'real' mayo
    I love that stuff. I used to be the world's biggest mayonaise lover (the kind of person who would just glob it on) and I thought nothing would ever replace it but Vegenaise is so excellent.

    I have found that true vegan cheese smells funny and leaves me wanting the real thing too much so I try to avoid it.

  20. #20
    Yoggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    674

    Default Re: Casein?

    I know cheese is addictive, but I wouldn't say it's as addictive as heroin. My cousin is addicted to heroin and she abandoned her 3 year old son on his birthday to move to the city with her new drug dealer boyfriend so she could feed her addiction. I don't know anyone who would do such a thing for cheese.
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

  21. #21
    Good sperm
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sarf Lahndn
    Posts
    851

    Default Re: Casein?

    I'm not implying it's as addictive as, but it does trigger similar feelings

  22. #22
    Yoggy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    674

    Default Re: Casein?

    Oh yes, I agree that it probably triggers similar feelings as other addictive drugs. My post was more to Eve, who said that cheese was more addictive than cigarettes or heroin, and that I definitely disagree with.
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

  23. #23
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Warwickshire, UK
    Posts
    2,639

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote jaydog View Post
    On UK based note all our popular soy cheese is 100% vegan and VS apporved, that is wrong that they are using animal products in the US sorry to hear that guys.
    Is this strictly true? I admittedly haven't checked in a few years but Soya-Kaas that was readily available in UK health stores used to contain casein.

    (Can't find any current info, maybe it doesn't exist anymore? Waybackmachine: http://web.archive.org/web/200108131.../soya_kaas.htm)
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  24. #24
    msquared creativegan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Casein?

    I just bought some veggie cheese and then found out that it had casein.....it was really frustrating. I guess I should read the stupid labels more often but it was misleading. Check out this article on this very subject: http://www.newstarget.com/003217.html

    And another on casein & cancer: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg...tract/37/3/749
    wings are for flying not frying

  25. #25
    frank language's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    92

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote eve View Post
    Casein is the reason that cheese is so addictive, and many vegans find it the hardest food to give up. Yesterday a friend told me she has been putting on weight lately, and then she mentioned a new gorgeous cheese. I suggested it may be the cheese is the cause of her weight increase. I did say that cheese is more addictive than cigarettes or heroin. She denied this but said she would never give up cheese. Hmmm.
    My sister gets a look in her eyes like a heroin addict when I suggest to her that dairy might be the cause of all the "childhood" diseases she's gotten in the past few years--tonsillitis, ear ache, what have you.

    "I would never give up cheese! It's my favorite food!" she says. I reason that most people can eat cheese without any problem, just as most junkies can maintain their habit just as long as they control it.

  26. #26
    msquared creativegan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Casein?

    My mom just pointed out to me that this book has lots of info on casein and how harmful it is in various ways. I haven't read it yet, but I've heard it's great: http://www.thechinastudy.com/
    wings are for flying not frying

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote creativegan View Post
    My mom just pointed out to me that this book has lots of info on casein and how harmful it is in various ways. I haven't read it yet, but I've heard it's great: http://www.thechinastudy.com/
    That study has been called into question by some fairly reputable scientists. In addition, chinese culture did not include heavy use of animal milk in adults like western cultures and as a result, a large proportion of chinese people are lactose intolerant. It wouldn't surprise me if they had a genetic succeptability to other disorders caused by other dairy products such as casein. Just as with their lactose intolerance, a genetic "flaw" of that sort would not have affected their general health, survival chance or mating chance simply because they didn't make heavy use of dairy products.

    In short, applying a study done in china on chinese people to western people is not viable. We can't draw conclusions about the impact of casein on western people based on that study.


    I would just like to say that making vegan casein is perfectly plausible. Like any protein, a bacterium can be genetically modified to produce it. It's decades old technology that was first used to produce insulin for diabetics. As to why nobody's done this yet, I don't know but I would suspect the cost of the initial engineering would be prohibitive with such a small market to appeal to.

  28. #28
    I eve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    2,210

    Default Re: Casein?

    You obviously haven't read The China Study as it is not a study done solely on Chinese people. Moreover, you imply that Chinese people are 'different' to us, and so again the study does not relate to western people. It is a fact, however, that when Chinese or other Asian people, who have not been eating cheese, come and live in the west, they want to try dairy products, and they like it. They become as addicted as westerners, and then suffer the same consequences such as osteoporosis and other conditions.

    Incidentally, there is now an insulin for diabetics that has no animal ingredients.
    Eve

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Casein?

    Quote eve View Post
    You obviously haven't read The China Study as it is not a study done solely on Chinese people.
    Please don't make the assumption that I'm ignorant just because I have said something you disagree with. I've read as much of the book as I could without paying for it (google books) and am definitely going to buy it.

    The fact that the chinese data was obtained from enclosed populations in rural China and Taiwan means the majority of the test subjects there were of strong aisian descent. To compare this to the american data they collected makes the unwarranted assumption that genetic differences between aisian and western people are not a significant factor in disease rates. The author of the book calmly asserts this as an assumption near the start of the book but there is strong evidence to suggest that it isn't true such as the fact that people of asian descent have a proven genetic predisposition to dietary intolerance of dairy products.

    Quote eve View Post
    Moreover, you imply that Chinese people are 'different' to us, and so again the study does not relate to western people. It is a fact, however, that when Chinese or other Asian people, who have not been eating cheese, come and live in the west, they want to try dairy products, and they like it. They become as addicted as westerners, and then suffer the same consequences such as osteoporosis and other conditions.
    Aisian people ARE different to westerners, that is a fact. The question is whether or not those differences affect the efficacy of the conclusions drawn from the study's collected data. After having been introduced to dairy products, studies have shown conclusively that people of aisian descent are more likely to be intolerant to dairy products. Addiction, osteoporosis etc aren't important to the point I'm making, which is simply that the study makes a faulty assumption on the effect of genetic factors on disease rates and that in the case of dairy products, this could be a significant factor.

    Don't mistake my words for some kind of rebuttal of the report. On the contrary, it's probably the most significant piece of nutritional science in the last fifty years. I'm even willing to take their research as fact for all intents and purposes in the absence of strong evidence to the contrary because they make remarkably strong and scientific cases. I can appreciate the rare opportunity they had in rural china to examine people's diets unchanged over generations and moreover to examine plant-based diets. My problem is whether or not it's too much to ask for more comparitive studies that rule out genetic factors. Surely there are other sample groups that could fit the study criteria and eliminate major genetic variance as a potential factor.

    I think the optimum thing to do would be to collect a second set of american data from second generation chinese people living in america and prove that it correlates with the existing american data in a statistically significant way. That would eliminate the entire problem.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: Nov 11th, 2010, 01:27 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •