Bye-bye fake meat

[Sarabi]

I am giving up fake meat for now until the end of this school year at least. Maybe forever. Unless it's made of tempeh, maybe, because I think tempeh is healthy. But that soy-based meat sucks, and fake meat is usually unhealthy, I think. TOO MUCH SOY.

And I'm sick of fake meat that tastes and looks exactly like meat. I don't want to have to question my veganism, even if the thing was labeled vegan!

Sorry, I just needed to say that because it helps me stick to it if I hold myself to other people.

[sandra]

I don't look on it as 'fake meat'..........to me it's just another kind of plant based food. It's convenient and quick to cook, so it's handy when you have 4 or 5 people to cater for in a hurry.

[firstandthen]

I love "fake meat" - especially fishless fish fingers. Mmmmm.

I probably shouldn't eat so much but I don't think its something that makes me question my veganism.

[missbettie]

i love the fake "meat" too. but everyone is different

sometimes I question if I eat too much soy as well, then i drop back down and stop eating tofu everyday, but sometimes i just get in one of those kicks!

[Sarabi]

Thanks for your support, guys. Now you sound like all those people who say, "I like meat!" when I talk about veganism.

If you want to eat fake meat, I'm not complaining... I just noticed myself liking the taste of vegan nuggets precisely because it tasted more like chicken meat, and I found that idea revolting... and I think that if I were a meat-eater, it would probably make me crave chicken meat!

[Prawnil]

For balance's sake, I don't like "meat substitute" type food.

[missbettie]

Thanks for your support, guys. Now you sound like all those people who say, "I like meat!" when I talk about veganism.

no one was putting you down.

if you don't want to eat the fake stuff don't, ur way right, its waaay healthier for you, especially if you stick with all the nummy whole foods. a lot of fake meats have a bunch of weird stuff in them.:smile:

[Nobylspoon]

But where are you going to get your protein from?!? Lol sorry I couldn't resist.

I have been cutting back alot on my fake meat and anything else loaded with preservatives for that matter. I like knowing whats in my food, a big reason why I started making my own bread. Although I don't plan on giving up chik'n nuggets anytime soon :P

[Sarabi]

Well, they're very often processed, I think. I know no one was putting me down. I just thought that was funny...

[missbettie]

oh i thought you were being serious. sorry! everyone has been so sensitive lately, myself included.

[Sloth]

I'm not overly keen on fake 'meat', for similar reasons to those you stated. I don't personally like the idea of a food based on the taste of animal flesh.

I am IN NO WAY though, attacking those who do eat 'meat substitues', and understand that different people think through this in different ways.

[Sarabi]

Yes. However, I do object to *mock* meat, i.e. a loaf of bread shaped like cooked turkey. That is not appropriate for a vegan, imo. If you're going to do that, it might as well be shaped like a LIVE turkey.

[Guate_Vegan]

Hi Sarabi!

I'm doing this for now as well, and I have found it much better on the $$ and also on my health. I felt always a bit weird that it tasted so much like real animals and kinda guilty as well, even though I don't object to anybody else eating the stuff. I will eat it if there's nothing else to eat, or if I'm going out to dinner and they have it in my plate, I'm not gonna refuse it since it IS vegan.

I don't know many reasons why not to eat it for health, but I think if you don't eat it like 3x a day every day then we're fine.

[missbettie]

Yes. However, I do object to *mock* meat, i.e. a loaf of bread shaped like cooked turkey. That is not appropriate for a vegan, imo. If you're going to do that, it might as well be shaped like a LIVE turkey.

but its not the same thing. nothing is getting hurt, and it really helps people transition.

I like the taste of meat, i just choose not to eat it becase it is completely and utterly wrong. And just for my own selfish pleasure of eating something that I think tastes good, its just not worth it. Its not worth the pain and the suffering of completely innocent beings.

I know you think differently, obviously you don't like the taste of meat, but for those who do miss the tastes of their omni days (not the torture and awfulness) the fake meats are really nice.

I guess its the same things with wearing fake leather huh?

[Sarabi]

but its not the same thing. nothing is getting hurt, and it really helps people transition.

I like the taste of meat, i just choose not to eat it becase it is completely and utterly wrong. And just for my own selfish pleasure of eating something that I think tastes good, its just not worth it. Its not worth the pain and the suffering of completely innocent beings.

I know you think differently, obviously you don't like the taste of meat, but for those who do miss the tastes of their omni days (not the torture and awfulness) the fake meats are really nice.

I guess its the same things with wearing fake leather huh?

There is a distinction between fake meat and mock meat. Fake meat is done for the taste or because people are unoriginal.

Mock meat like the one I described above is done sometimes just to be original and sometimes to make a mockery of real meat, and it doesn't necessarily have the same taste or quality as real meat.

[Prawnil]

There is a distinction between fake meat and mock meat.

Is that true there? At least in the UK, as far as I've ever seen, "mock" and "fake" are synonymous - "meaty" vegan foods are sometimes marketed as mock meats (Mock Duck...).

[Sarabi]

Is that true there? At least in the UK, as far as I've ever seen, "mock" and "fake" are synonymous - "meaty" vegan foods are sometimes marketed as mock meats (Mock Duck...).

Well, fake meat can be mock meat, but I wouldn't call a turkey loaf fake meat because no one's going to be fooled into thinking that it's meat, no one will treat it like meat. I mean, the sourdough boy is not a "fake boy" but more like a play on a boy. Not necessarily a mockery, as there's nothing wrong with being a boy as there is with being meat.

[Quantum Mechanic]

I have fake meat products every once in awhile. I only buy them once or twice a month, but in the cafeteria sometimes they have good vegan food that have a fake meat product in it (like the vegan shepard's pie), but I'd rather not have it on a regular basis (such as having fake meat slices on sandwiches every day).

[Korn]

I sometimes eat seitan of the type sold as 'mock duck' or 'mock chicken'. That's not because these products possibly reminds of duck or chicken. I know this, because I've never eaten duck or chicken - or wanted to do it. These products only serve as one of very many ways of eating plants, and I like variation. Plus, when prepared with garlic, spices, ginger etc, they don't even taste like seitan, which by itself don't have a taste that appeals to me much. To me, they're more like a variation of, say, spaghetti than a variation of meat.

[VeganMonkey]

Personally I don't think that eating meat substitutes means on some level I want real meat. I never enjoyed meat and I don't think the substitutes are really very close to the real thing - the flavours are vaguely similar but the textures are totally different (and it was the texture of meat that I most disliked).
I accept that of course it's healthier to mimimise your intake of processed foods but I personally like to include meat substitutes in my diet (though not to excess) - I guess partly because they're convenient. They're a vegan's 'junk' food I suppose, and as health wasn't my primary reason for becoming vegan, I like to indulge sometimes! Few things beat a fishless finger and tomato sauce sandwich after a night out huh Firstandthen?!

[leedsveg]

Personally I don't think that eating meat substitutes means on some level I want real meat. I never enjoyed meat and I don't think the substitutes are really very close to the real thing - the flavours are vaguely similar but the textures are totally different (and it was the texture of meat that I most disliked).
I accept that of course it's healthier to mimimise your intake of processed foods but I personally like to include meat substitutes in my diet (though not to excess) - I guess partly because they're convenient. They're a vegan's 'junk' food I suppose, and as health wasn't my primary reason for becoming vegan, I like to indulge sometimes! Few things beat a fishless finger and tomato sauce sandwich after a night out huh Firstandthen?!

Hi VeganMonkey

Following on from what you say, when I went veggie in 1990, then vegan 6 years later, it was nothing to do with disliking the taste or texture of meat or fish. If they stopped making the fake items which I sometimes currently eat, no way would I go back to eating real meat/fish. My beliefs are stronger than that. The fake items may be junk food but I don't feel obliged to eat as healthily as I can all the time. Part of a meal I had yesterday included chips (fries) undoubtedly unhealthy but if they've reduced my life span by 10 minutes, so what. Sometimes even vegans have got to take a walk on the wild side.

[VeganMonkey]

Hi VeganMonkey

The fake items may be junk food but I don't feel obliged to eat as healthily as I can all the time. Part of a meal I had yesterday included chips (fries) undoubtedly unhealthy but if they've reduced my life span by 10 minutes, so what. Sometimes even vegans have got to take a walk on the wild side.

That's my philosophy too! Each to their own though.

[sandra]

There is a distinction between fake meat and mock meat. Fake meat is done for the taste or because people are unoriginal

I am not 'unoriginal' in my cooking..............I just like using different types of food..........if a food is vegan then I will eat it (well maybe not if it's fresh corriander, I don't like fresh corriander )

I think you can get a bit carried away with worrying too much about liking something that is supposed to be 'like' meat, meaning you are secretly wanting 'real' meat. I was 16 when I went vegetarian and I can't rememer what meat tastes like (I'm very old) so I don't use 'fake' meat products because they taste like meat...........I use them because as I said before, they are convenient.

At the end of the day if the 'fake' meats are completely vegan and they help meat eaters to convert to a vegan diet more easily, then I don't see the harm in them.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Variety is the spice of life!

I eat fake/mock meats to add variety to my meals. I don't eat them all the times as I love beans and pulses, more. Sometimes they can work better in recipes, than beans and pulses and like tofu I can marinated them.

I'm not keen on the Seitan mock duck and chicken as they do have the texture of the real thing, and I've never liked eating meat. I buy seitan that doesn't have the texture of meat and use that.

Everyone is different, and I accept that. Our food tastes also change, depending on our mood, and/or as we change in life. My OH used to love fake meats, now he's not so fond of them, he prefers lentils and beans.

[horselesspaul]

I sometimes eat seitan of the type sold as 'mock duck' or 'mock chicken'. That's not because these products possibly reminds of duck or chicken. I know this, because I've never eaten duck or chicken - or wanted to do it. These products only serve as one of very many ways of eating plants, and I like variation. Plus, when prepared with garlic, spices, ginger etc, they don't even taste like seitan, which by itself don't have a taste that appeals to me much. To me, they're more like a variation of, say, spaghetti than a variation of meat.

Good post.
I don't think of meat or any animal product as food.
These "meat" analogues do have a place in a varied approach to cooking in my household and are merely what they are to me, another kind of food.

[Sarabi]

I am not "secretly wanting real meat." That is a bullshit assumption. I am saying that IF I were a meat eater, I would want real meat. Since I'm not a meat-eater, I don't. I am saying I do not like having cravings for the taste of meat, whether it's artificial or not, because it reminds me of when I did have cravings for real meat. And I am saying that if I let myself be overcome by the taste of meat, then it will be harder for me to avoid craving meat (or at least what is physically an apparition of meat), which I never have craved since going vegan. People constantly ask me if veganism is hard, or even tell me "that must be hard," and I tell them it is not. It is easy. But it's easy because I deliberately do not think of meat as food. However, I do not have much self-discipline, and I do not ever want to say that I have cravings for anything resembling meat.

Why am I even having this discussion? I think I am not going to read this thread anymore because I do not appreciate being accused of "secretly wanting real meat," and it is actually people's faith in my veganism that gives me so much courage.

[JC]

Are you only talking about products that are marketed as 'fake meat'? What about tofu, TVP, seitan etc?

[harpy]

My only real objection to fake meats is that they probably don't have as much nutritional value as vegetables, fruit, nuts and so on. So if someone eats a substantial amount of fake meat instead of unprocessed stuff they could be missing out on something. There seem to be some vegetarians and vegans who eat very little fruit and veg, which is worrying. But the fake meats are fine for a change IMO.

[horselesspaul]

I am not "secretly wanting real meat." That is a bullshit assumption.

I think you'll find that sandra was saying the opposite. No doubt she will clarify this if she feels the need.

[missbettie]

eep!

[Sarabi]

Tofu doesn't usually taste like meat.

Anyway, now that I think about it, I have craved non-vegan products before, but only pastries that come to mind... cookies, you know. Less of those cravings with time. But that only shows why I need to not eat fake meat.

Okay, I am not blaming anyone for how I am experiencing this discussion. It is my fault. I should not rely on open discussions for courage because there are too many voices. Will never again post a thread about a commitment I have made in order for people to scrutinize it.

[missbettie]

you know, i think that people that have cravings for non vegan products and still don't eat them are very incrudibly honorable and strong. (not saying you are craving). but there isn't anything wrong with it.

and no one is scrutinzing you, we are having a discussion that you brought up. This is what a thread is all about.

[harpy]

I think the trouble is that people will read something like this as a criticism of what they do themselves, i.e. eat fake meat. It's similar to the way people read a commitment to veganism as a criticism of their meat-eating - although in that instance they're right of course

[sandra]

I think you'll find that sandra was saying the opposite. No doubt she will clarify this if she feels the need.

Exactly! Thank you, Horselesspaul!

Sarabi,I certainly wasn't suggesting that you were 'secretly craving meat'

Also, I don't think eating 'fake' stuff would encourage cravings for 'real meat'............as I think most vegans through time are actually repulsed by the thought of eating the flesh of a once living being. At least I know I am, but I suppose I can't speak for other vegans.

I really wasn't 'getting at you' Sarabi and I did find your 'bullshit' comment a bit harsh!

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Sarabi, you openly shared your feelings with us ,on you no longer wanting to eat fake meats. This invited a discussion from us all on our feelings/thoughts on eating them as part of our varied diets.

I posted my feelings and began with the quote " variety is the spice of life!" For the simple reason, I enjoy reading everyone's feelings/thoughts on the many topics discussed on this forum. There are times that I've wondered if I'm the only vegan who gets bored with eating fake meats and feels they can be junk food when eaten to access. I now know this isn't true from having a discussion with you and other VFers.

Most of my friends aren't vegan and can't understand why I would feel this way about fake meat. If it wasn't for this forum and reading the many different perspectives offered, I'd feel somewhat isolated.

It's difficult when other people write their views on subjects, because how we perceive what is written comes from how we feel at the time. We don't have the chance to all be together face to face and talk about this and see body language, facial expressions and hear voice tones.

[shiny2008]

I do NOT like fake meat, I think most I can get made of soy/taro, I don't like the taste...but I really like bean curd...

[emzy1985]

The plant based tubular shaped eating vegans vs the hardcore green leafers! Who will win? Only time will tell!

Hahaha! You guys sound like carcuss eaters vs vegans!

[Mahk]

I like the taste of fake meat and have zero qualms about it. Obviously highly processed foods can be, but aren't always, high in fat and sodium but within the constraints of that I have no problem with liking and eating the stuff every single day (if I wanted too).

Even though I haven't eaten any in over a quarter of a century I remember exactly what bacon tastes like and I'm in no way ashamed for thinking it tasted good. Hurting animals is wrong but what foods you like the taste/texture of against your tongue has nothing to do with that.

----
My personal kitchen motto is "Spices are the variety of life."

[1gentlemaorispirit]

----
My personal kitchen motto is "Spices are the variety of life."

I haven't heard that saying for years. I had a school friend whose Grandmother lived a few doors away from us, and she used to say that! I asked her what she meant by it. To her, it was the many cultures living in the area and the friendly, warm atmosphere that the was created in the community.

Thank you for reminding me of that fond memory!

[Mahk]

^I thought I had made it up myself, actually. Oh well. Well, maybe for the way I mean it at least I did. To me "Spices are the variety of life" (a flipped version of the normal expression "variety is the spice of life") means that the different combinations of herbs, spices, and especially spicy hot flavors we add to a dish we are preparing to make it unique is what makes life fun and diverse.

I love hot and spicy food! [my friends call me a dragon] I use this expression as I'm adding the habanero peppers, jalapeños, and cumin to my pot of chili, for example.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Mahk, I guessed that's what you meant. For years I thought my friend's Grandmmother had made it up! Great minds think a like!

I prefer ginger, lots of it, to hot spicy chili for a few reasons.

[Eat Y'self Fitter]

I'm torn between the fake meat sides. For a while I was trying to stay away from them in total, but now since I'm busy I'm eating a lot of veggie burgers. I think the only questionable meat-substitute, was this temeph "bacon" i made, that actually tasted better then any real bacon I have had in the past. It was great, it tasted so unhealthy but I knew I wasn't dying from it so it was a great laugh and made breakfast smokey.

[sandra]

The plant based tubular shaped eating vegans vs the hardcore green leafers! Who will win? Only time will tell!

Hahaha! You guys sound like carcuss eaters vs vegans!

Yes, silly isn't it?

[emzy1985]

Lots of things on this forum are silly now! I miss the good old days!

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Lots of things on this forum are silly now! I miss the good old days!

Can I ask, is that the good old days before new comers like myself joined discussions?

(I'm curious, not offended).

[emzy1985]

Can I ask, is that the good old days before new comers like myself joined discussions?

(I'm curious, not offended).

No....just I miss old faces that's all!

[1gentlemaorispirit]

I know they say that change is a good thing, but is it always? I a member of a forum where regular posters don't visit much now and it feels "empty" there in a way.

I'm worried I'm getting to attached to this cyber socialising . . .

[kriz]

I've been cutting down on fake meats for health reasons - processed food is never the best choice. However, it's tasty, convenient, and a good source of protein, so I'm happy it's available in so many variations when need I it.

I just went to visit my family and they had all bought a variation of fake meats which made it much easier for them to cook for me. Mashed potatoes, steamed veggies and a few 'fake' sausages and it's all done! Some didn't even bother to make the 'real' thing for themselves, but enjoyed mine and was surprised it tasted so good!

[horselesspaul]

Lots of things on this forum are silly now! I miss the good old days!

No you don't. How could you! x

Seriously, having just returned from an afternoon of consuming free samples of meat, fish and cheese analogues at the vegan fayre I can honestly say that some are better than others and that the hamburger ones were icky to me but the Redwoods fishnot fingers were quite nice. The Scheese and cracker freebies were going like Scheese and crack. Having eaten meat until about 20 years ago I can also say that nothing I ate today tasted or felt remotely like it, luckily.

[BlackCats]

Having eaten meat until about 20 years ago I can also say that nothing I ate today tasted or felt remotely like it, luckily.

Indeed. I ate meat about 16 years ago and dairy about 2 years ago and the fake versions taste nothing like it at all and I don't want them to. The nearest thing I would say is Yagga and the fish-less fish fingers but nothing else.