MPs vote by huge majority for total smoking ban in England

[Pob]

Yay - not before time.
Summer 2007 seems like an excessively long wait before it comes in, though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4709258.stm

[Barley]

Great news! Wish they would ban it in the street too.....

[oldsilverhead]

Is this definate Rob?If so I am thrilled





oldsilverhead

[RedWellies]

That's fantastic news!! Thanks for letting us know.

[Jane M]

Why are they delaying it so long? Did they give a reason?

[Lyns]

Only a month til smoking is banned in public places in Scotland, and to celebrate I'm going to go clubbing for the first time in 2 years! Can't wait!

[Pilaf]

You guys are so lucky over there..here in America, especially here in Tennessee, the smell of cancerweed is thick in the air most places.

[Pob]

The deadline (for banning smoking in workplaces) was already established - they were voting on whether it would be a full or partial ban (ie whether it would cover all, some or no pubs and clubs).

It is a shame that it will take so long to implement - but I guess they need to draw up laws, debate exact wording, etc.

[Spiral]

At last, New Labour do something useful!

[Pob]

I'm actually pretty impressed with the number of back benchers that are forcing the government's hand at the moment. Tony Blair and his cabinet are in no way in touch with what people actually want, anymore - only the threat of losing debates because of backbench rebellions is getting things done.

[Spiral]

It's a shame the backbenchers have only just found their backbones. If they'd found them sooner we wouldn't have been involved with the war in Iraq. They've finally found the guts to rebel in numbers large enough to make a difference because honest Tone will soon be retiring to make millions on the lecture and after-dinner speaking circuit.

[snaffler]

HAPPY is all I can say the only downside is it will not be in force until next summer oh well, but hay with the summer we can all go to the pub beer garden which is toxic free.

On another note it will be good to go to places like clubs and stuff or even for a night out for a few beers without getting your lungs clogged and that evil filthy stink on yur clothes....

You know I watched the BBC breakfast show this morning before i left for work and it was being chatted about on their, they asked people to txt or email in thoughts on the new ban......

Some total dumb ass emailed in to say "oh so if the government are saying this will cause 600.000 to give up where will the treasurey get all that extra income tax from) apart from being a stupid jumped selfish statement, did this idiot not relise the balance will come when the NHS has a drop in lung cancer and heart disease victims to treat and in turn saving millions.

So here is a great day for the whole of the UK, I am jelous of you Scots only March and you are their..... one of the best things to come out of this Government in years.....this wins my vote

[coconut]

I think this is fantastic news!! I absolutely detest the smell of tobacco and how dirty it makes me feel. Finally a law which is going to treat smoking like the appalling addiction it is.

[kriz]

A great ban which gives boths sides options - the smokers can puff outside and the non-smokers does not have to be bothered by nasty smell. It's a win win situation. I was a smoker for many years myself, but never took my habits inside, so I know it's not so difficult to comply with these type of rules and show some consideration.

[aubergine]

I might actually go to pubs more now

[Geoff]

King James the First described smoking as a custom "loathsome to the eye, hateful to the nose, harmful to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in the black stinking fume thereof nearest resembling the horrible stygian smoke of the pit that is bottomless."

And that was in 1604! It took a while for us to catch on.

[Risker]

Some total dumb ass emailed in to say "oh so if the government are saying this will cause 600.000 to give up where will the treasurey get all that extra income tax from) apart from being a stupid jumped selfish statement, did this idiot not relise the balance will come when the NHS has a drop in lung cancer and heart disease victims to treat and in turn saving millions.

I'm not certain of the figures but from what I've read the tax raised from selling tobacco is something like 5 times the amount that is spent on treating smoke related illnesses. If it's true then I imagine there would be a drop in funds.

[princessemma]

Terrific news. I for one will definately start going to pubs again.

[Roxy]

Yeah the food was good. I would have however preferred a smoke free environment. This restaurant permits smoking inside. The area being small, does not allow the restaurant to designate a smoke free section.

The UK really needs to get with the program, when it comes to this!!! Where I live in Canada, smoking is not permitted in any restaurants at all. You can however, smoke outside if there is an outdoor dining area, but even that stinks!!! You might be sitting outside trying to enjoy a nice meal and then the inconsiderate jerk at the table beside you lights up a smoke.

[cookey]

I think this will be covered by the new smoking laws which come in to force next year in the u.k. There will be no smoking allowed in anywhere that someone has to work. So will include pubs, bars and restaurants. Roll on!

[Lilac Hamster]

Yes, the UK will catch up with you in Canada next summer with the Health Act becoming law, I agree we should have banned smoking in restaurants long ago.

[lozza]

i live in scotland. there is already a smoking ban in place. it was put in place on march 26th when the law changed. no smoking permitted in ANY public places, including pubs, bars, clubs, cafes, restaurants, on buses, bus stations, train stations, even in some bus shelters!

england's law is diff from scotland, so england will get the smoking ban next year in march. i must say its the best law ever i love not having to smell other peoples smoke now.

[neil]

I have been told the smoking ban has already started in restaurants by the owner of my local Indian restaurant.

I hate smoky places so this will suit me.

[paulvegan]

nanny state.

[Pob]

I think it will be great. Should have come in this year, though. No reason not to bring it in quicker.

[Lilac Hamster]

The ban will be good for me for yet another reason, as it will prevent me getting into arguments on the forum about whether veganforum ppl should have their meet ups in no smoking establishments exclusively (which I would prefer to happen now, and especially if I want to go to a meet up).

I don't seek to impose my wishes if some ppl want to meet in smoking allowed places if this is their choice up to the ban and no-one feels excluded by it, it's not up to me if I am not taking part, but occasionally someone with a real problem with smoke might want to come along to a meet up and will feel excluded, eg from a comedy club or pub, if a smoking place is chosen. I don't think many smokers would feel excluded by choosing smoke-free as they still have the choice to smoke - outside, so the choice should be clear even before the ban, smoke-free pubs and clubs should be the default. Who is with me on this? I will not even stand in a cashpoint queue if someone is smoking there, and walk down the road a bit if some idiot lights up at the bus stop, I still glare at them from a distance.

150 days to go and counting!!

Why do so many people who support the ban still go to smoky places, why do ppl not always go with what they actually believe is best and choose smoke-free places only? I have done this nearly all my adult life, it is not as much inconvenience as it would be if I made myself extremely ill by putting myself into smoke! I am seriously confused by this, and hope some of you can explain why you are a bit wishy-washy about avoiding smoke if you are for the ban.

[sprite1986]

I don't smoke (and never have) but I still go to places which have designated areas for smoking, and to be honest, it doesn't bother me. People who i'm around are polite enough to go somewhere else to smoke or ask if I mind.

I'm (passively) happy for the smoke ban in the hope that hopefully it will encourage more smokers to kick the habit as it makes it not so easy to light up. But at the same time, I don't think I'll really notice the difference.

[fiamma]

The ban will be good for me for yet another reason, as it will prevent me getting into arguments on the forum about whether veganforum ppl should have their meet ups in no smoking establishments exclusively (which I would prefer to happen now, and especially if I want to go to a meet up). .

Why not organise a meet up in Central London yourself, somewhere smoke-free?

I hope some of you can explain why you are a bit wishy-washy about avoiding smoke if you are for the ban.

Being for the ban and being totally opposed to smoking are two different things. Although I think a ban is a good thing, if there was a club or a concert I wanted to see where smoking was allowed, then it wouldn't stop me going. Alright, so you don't have that luxury. But try to understand that not everyone feels as strongly about this as you do, and although you say you are not forcing your views on anyone it seems to me you are doing quite the opposite. If I were you I would organise a meet-up in a no-smoking place. And as you say, 150 days and counting

[Barley]

I'm with Lilac Hamster all the way - I even wish it would be banned in the street - I hate walking behind people smoking - yuk, why should they be allowed to inflict their habit on me - it's hardly as if anyone needs convincing any more about the dangers of passive smoking.

[Risker]

Our local pub has kindly erected a large marquee in their garden specifically for the smokers to use. No doubt at some point though someone will say that non smokers should be allowed to use the marquee aswell without having to breathe in other peoples smoke.

I'm not sure how a marquee gets around the smoking ban though, I'd be interested to know how they define what's indoors or out.

I've noticed at my local wetherspoons that has no smoking and smoking sections that very few people use the no smoking section unless the smoking section is full, interesting behaviour...

[Lilac Hamster]

Oh yes, how very charitable of your local!! I think most pubs are doing this aren't they? I really don't know why they bother, they don't have to accommodate smokers, it's added expense and hardly worthwhile when they will get loads of new non-smoking customers come the ban anyway!

Isn't it weird how the majority of pubs have not so far lifted a finger to cater for the majority of people who want to avoid smoke, despite all the damning evidence against passive smoking, and yet compare this with the ban coming and they all fall over themselves to cater for the stinking air-polluting anti-social minority. Double standards indeed.

As for the behaviour at your local with the non-smoking section not being very popular, well what that tells me is that the people who can't and won't tolerate smoke are mostly avoiding pubs altogether, rather than doing the equivalent of swimming in the non-peeing end of a swimming pool with a peeing end, isn't that pretty obvious? Some of us are discerning as we have every right to be when it comes to our health.

If your local just went smoke-free now they would be more popular as not many pubs are smoke-free yet so they could corner this huge market in advance of the ban if they stopped being so wishy-washy about it. Some of Wetherspoons are totally smoke-free, sadly our nearest is Surbiton, not brilliant to get to.

Come the ban, the smoke-avoiders who have so far been sidelined to having very few places to feel comfortable will start coming out more and will take over almost everywhere, smokers will be left in the cold which is quite fair enough, smokers have had it all their way in pubs and clubs for more than long enough and I won't half be having fun gloating if I see any smokers being grumpy about it!! The tables are turned and it's about time, but at least there are some smokers accepting it as perfectly fair and reasonable.

[Risker]

Oh yes, how very charitable of your local!! I think most pubs are doing this aren't they? I really don't know why they bother, they don't have to accommodate smokers, it's added expense and hardly worthwhile when they will get loads of new non-smoking customers come the ban anyway!

They don't have to, however they are doing it in order to keep their smoking customers happy as they need their money in order to remain profitable.

I think they should also ban alcohol in pubs since I've personally been attacked twice by people who were drunk and many more times had abuse shouted at me etc. I don't see why I should have to put up with people being loud and obnoxious, spilling their drinks on me and the violence and vandalism (I've also had my car damaged multiple times by drunks) that happens when the pubs kick out. I should be able to sit in a pub and enjoy a glass of orange juice without having to put up with all that. If people want to get drunk they should do it in their own homes so that others don't have to put up with the way they behave on alcohol.

[Lilac Hamster]

Nonsense, do the maths, only 27% or less of adults still smoke, and it is decreasing, therefore it is the non-smokers that the pubs and other public places including night-clubs should be keeping sweet and they can wave bye bye to the smokers who do not like the rules!

You can always go to a juice bar or cafe for non-alcoholic drinks if you do not want to be around alcohol, pubs are traditionally based around alcoholic drinks, but also sell soft drinks (I usually only drink diet coke and occasionally an alcoholic drink).

Of course you would be hard-pressed to find a juice bar where you would be allowed pollute the air with tobacco smoke!

Alcohol in moderation is quite safe and if a person cannot control themselves they should not drink, quite simple isn't it?

There are established safe levels of alcohol and most people with any sense stick within the safe levels.

There is no safe level of tobacco smoke exposure. None has been established because it is recognised as being so toxic and dangerous.

This is the main difference between drinking and smoking in public and obviously the majority and the government and many of the oppopsition MPs agree.

[aubergine]

[puffin]

Lol Risker.
I dont see anything wrong with giving smokers somewhere to smoke away from others and somewhere they wont freeze to death. Smokers are still human and shouldnt be treated like criminals.

[Lilac Hamster]

The fools will hardly freeze to death in July will they? It's quite nice for them that they get to acclimatise gradually to the ban as the weather gets colder, rather than being sent into the cold overnight. I would have preferred to bring in the ban in the middle of winter, I don't see anything wrong with making it unpleasant for them as they are more likely to quit if it is unpleasant and difficult.

[Risker]

Nonsense, do the maths, only 27% or less of adults still smoke, and it is decreasing, therefore it is the non-smokers that the pubs and other public places including night-clubs should be keeping sweet and they can wave bye bye to the smokers who do not like the rules!

I'm sure that more than 27% of the clientel of pubs smoke, if you are willing to poison your body with alcohol then there's a higher chance that you'd also be willing to poison it with tobacco.

Providing shelter for smokers is not doing anything against non-smokers so why would they not do it? What extra could pubs do for non-smokers after the ban has been brought in?

[snaffler]

All politics aside and just focusing on the ban, In my town in Somerset many places have banned it ahead of the law and its working very well.

This also may suprise people a new rock / metal night opened in Bath at the end of last year, the whole venue is 100% non smoking and you know what its packed to the rafters when it runs.

For me who likes going to these things and mosh without breathing in smog its a blessing bring on the ban I am a happy hound.

[Lilac Hamster]

What is "mosh"?

It doesn't surprise me at all, what you report Snaffler is exactly what I would expect and will be seen throughout the country after the ban because smoke-avoiders are in the majority (even if not so many are as strict as I have to be). See the poll, a clear majority of us on this forum tend to prefer to avoid smoky places where there is a choice of places to go, although few exercise zero tolerance as I do, the preference is clearly for smoke-free.

The problem I have with smoking shelters is that if they are right next to the open door of a building and the smoke drifts in, that is against non-smokers and especially a problem for someone like me who reacts badly to small amounts of smoke. If they erected the shelters a good few yards away from the building for the smoke to disperse effectively outdoors I would have no problem with it. I do not trust all pubs/clubs to be adequately considerate of smoke-sensitive people, it's not as if they have a very good record on this so far. I don't think the law goes far enough and there will be complaints from people like me if smoke drifts indoors from these shelters.

What more could pubs do? Well some of them could go entrirely smoke-free on their entire grounds and gardens the same as hospitals and schools, that would be even better and cut the risk of smoke drifting indoors.

Over 50% of pub users are non-smokers, I read somewhere the figures were 56 to 44, so a small majority but nevertheless a majority, which will increase dramatically soon after the ban.

The naysayers like you Risker will soon be proved wrong and I will be happy to say I told you so.

[puffin]

The fools will hardly freeze to death in July will they? It's quite nice for them that they get to acclimatise gradually to the ban as the weather gets colder, rather than being sent into the cold overnight. I would have preferred to bring in the ban in the middle of winter, I don't see anything wrong with making it unpleasant for them as they are more likely to quit if it is unpleasant and difficult.

Fools lol, maybe name calling isnt the best way to get your point across.
LH i understand you have a real hatred towards smoking and people who smoke and that is understandable since you have such a bad smoke allergy but not everyone feels smokers should freeze in the cold . All the smokers i know are very respectful people and have no problem with the ban.
By the way i think the ban if good news as i will be able to take my children out for a meal without the risk of people smoking around them.

[Lilac Hamster]

Freezing in the cold is for their own good, it will do them a favour as it will make them more likely to quit. I don't actually want anyone to die from smoking and would rather they would give up.

I'm not that evil that I enjoy seeing people self-harming, hey here's an idea, maybe they should just erect shelters for ppl who want to cut their arms with knives and make themselves bleed or make themselves throw up, general "self-harming shelters"? Why restrict it to smoking? It would be the same thing, because smoking is nothing but a form of self-harm and very often a sign of mental illness. More people with mental illness smoke than in the general population, most schizophrenics smoke, some anorexics smoke to stay thin, so I rest my case, it is linked in with other serious mental problems. I don't even like watching films with people smoking, Lost in Translation made me feel sick, I have a definite squeamishness about smoking, always did have. Being brought up around it was a form of abuse and torture, I have cut myself off such a lot from my family because of it.

The worst thing is parents who smoke around their kids (and those who take them to smoky public places) but I did not think there was such a shortage of smoke-free family-friendly places to eat out any more? Obviously you would not be going to McDonalds, which ironically has been smoke-free pretty much for ever as far as I know.

Pizza Express is quite good, many of their branches including one of our closest ones in the Kingston Rotunda have now gone totally smoke-free (maybe some only have separate areas still, and how effective that is would depend on the layout of individual restaurants).

My main problem is for instance that I can't go to many pubs or a nightclub or comedy night with the no-meat-up. Eating out is not much of a problem as smoke-free is quite common and normal, and seems especially so in most veggie places. Maybe it is worse where you live though.

Because smokers are so often mentally ill, I do believe that they need medical help, but sometimes that means being a bit tough on them and not accommodating their behaviour as if it is quite normal and acceptable - because it's not. Some things should be kept private if ppl feel they have to do them, and smoking is one of them just like most other self-harming behaviour which is offensive out in public.

I don't hate smokers, I pity them.

[Korn]

I don't hate smokers, I pity them.

Please discuss smoking, and not smokers, Lilac. Calling smokers fools won't help much, even if you (and many smokers) agree that it's foolish to smoke.

In lots of cases, if it is found that a chemical found in food causes cancer, it will be forbidden. Tobacco is legal, even if smoking also affects others than the smoker (using a cancer causes sweetener would generally only harm oneself). I can't see why tobacco shall get such a special treatment, especially since tobacco affects more people than those who smoke it, and agree that the worst thing is smoking around kids; they are more fragile than us. But from what I've seen here in Norway, where smoking in public places has been banned for a while now, totally banning smoke from public places went smoother and has been more successful than banning smoke only from a part of a cafe - and to day, people hardly discuss the smoke ban anymore.

[Lilac Hamster]

Errm... I only said that I pity smokers in reply to being accused of hating them (by Puffin). Although I do admit to being angry at any who are especially inconsiderate when asked not to smoke around someone and they do it anyway.
Korn, please read properly the posts before mine so it is in context.

You are right, tobacco does get special treatment compared to other poisons, there is only one reason for this, it is because the government gets tax from it, so they won't ban it totally because they do so well out of it. The UK government, like most governments, are hypocrites and even though I support the public smoking ban, and will feel more free in my life to go places, I don't think it will be enough for me until smoking is made illegal with no exceptions.

[Pob]

It annoys me that one of our neighbours (a few doors down) smokes in their back garden early in the morning.

If we have our bedroom window open at night the smoke comes in first thing in the morning just as we are waking up and cuddling in bed. It annoys me.

[!!]

...

[Lilac Hamster]

A few doors down? You must have quite a sensitive nose. Even I say that as a very smoke-sensitive person, and a next door neighbour smoking in their garden has been a problem a few times for me, smoke has come through the hedge while I was hanging out some washing and made me cough, but any further away than next door I probably would not be affected to be honest.
I've often heard that ex-smokers are worse for being smoke-sensitive than never-smokers like myself.
One of the worst times for me was sitting on a coach quite near the front with the kids and someone smoking just outside the open door pf the coach, the smoke came inside enough to make me quite ill even though no-one else could actually smell it (or no-one else complained anyway), and I had to leave in a very bad mood, took the kids off and complained to someone higher up as the smoking woman was the brownie leader and it was a brownies trip we were forced to miss out on because of her. I was incensed that she would be such a bad role model and would dare to smoke in full view of the kids on the coach so took my daughter out of the brownie group in protest because of this dreadful woman.

[RedWellies]

Whilst I think it will be nice to have smoke-free pubs, etc., I worry that more people will smoke as they walk around. Personally, I find that worse; I can avoid a smoky pub if I need to but I can't avoid walking around. I don't think "public places" includes outside does it?

[puffin]

One thing that worries me is the litter problem outside pubs and clubs. Wont everyone flick there fags on the pavement unless there is a proper ashtray provided or one of those sand buckets? A allocated place would be a lot better than people hanging around the streets flicking fags about.

[Korn]

.
Korn, please read properly the posts before mine so it is in context.

I actually did, and I still think not exaggerating the focus in the smokers generally is a brilliant idea. Eg. when you wrote that smokers 'so often' are mentally ill, I think it's a pretty fair chance that smokers who read what you write will listen less, not more. I still agree in most of your points...

[Korn]

I don't think "public places" includes outside does it?

Depends on how the law is defined locally in UK. Does it actually say anything about public places?