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Thread: Animal products and diabetes

  1. #1
    gertvegan's Avatar
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    Default Animal products and diabetes

    From the Vegetarian Resource Group, a Vegan Menu for People with Diabetes

  2. #2
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    hey thanks gert my mum has diabetes, i'll have to pass that on to her.

  3. #3
    Vivisanctor
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    Gertvegan:

    your link didn't work for me.

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    gertvegan's Avatar
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    Try now.

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    The link works fine, but those recipes are too complicated for me; I'm a simple eater. The page with Monday, Tuesday, etc meals, are also complicated. As someone with border-line diabetes (genetic), these days I simply stick to rolled oats with apricots or raisins for brekkie; for lunch raw vege juice and lightly cooked bok choi, tomatoes and beans etc with a slice of grainy bread spread with avocado, homas and marmite; and in the evening I eat a bowl of pecan nuts! Nothing between meals except a cup of hot lemon, or ginger tea.

    Look what a small space that fits into! I did keep one vegan cookbook (after giving away all the others), but where there's a long list of ingredients, no way am I going to follow the instructions. But I appreciate that website gertvegan, always useful to keep informed.
    Eve

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    Unhappy type 2 diabetes

    my mom went to the doctors yesterday. she was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes but her level was only 206... she said anything over 200 is diabetic... is it too late for her to turn it around? i mean if she looses weight and eats right... Is it possible for her to not be diabetic... still be on the fence...

    Also can a veg/vegan diet help her... she's my mom i want to do i can to help her out. PLEASE RESPOND! thanks!!!

  7. #7

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    I have read that a vegan diet can prevent/cure type II diabetes. Most likely it's her current diet and exercise (or lack thereof) that caused it, so she definitely needs a change. Why doesn't she just try it out?
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

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    Veganchick, the Diet and Diabetes article from the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine may be of interest, as may the book they recommend from the Healthy Eating For Life series, To Prevent And Treat Diabetes.

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    gertvegan's Avatar
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    And heres the Diabetes: Can a Vegan Diet Reverse Diabetes? article by Andrew Nicholson, M.D. that I was looking for.

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    Theres also the Vegan Menu for People with Diabetes thread with a link that helps I hope.

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    Kiva Dancer's Avatar
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    It's very true.

    The vegan diet can help reverse type 2 diabeties and help lower insulin dependancy. Whole grains and deep leafy vegetables are the two best things she can eat that will help. If she's a meat-eater or a milk drinker, encourage her to cut those things out. Milk has been shown to spike blood sugar and so has meat.

    I would also encourage her to take up some form of exercise if she's not already doing that. This, combined with diet will also help her.

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    Vegan diet plan written by a vegan RD for treating type II diabetes:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...870431-8020705

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    I wonder if the diet is actually "reversing" the disease, though. Is it not just restoring the body to its original, pure state that was clouded by consumption of animal products?

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    Default thanks

    thanks everyone to all of your help... my mom went back to the doctors and got her levels checked. she is on the higher end of the "normal" range which means she isn't diabetic! she is still going to be more careful what she eats... She still needs to lose weight tho... she is at least trying to more than before.

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    Excellent news that she's not diabetic! What a relief to you, I'm sure.

    I would still encourage her to follow a vegan diet and find something that gets her physically active. Those 2 things will do miles to lowering her blood sugars and getting her away from that "high end of normal" range.

    Best of luck to you both.
    It's vegan, which means it's vegetarian which means there's nothing unheathy in it. -- my guy trying to explain vegan junkfood.

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    Quote Artichoke47
    I wonder if the diet is actually "reversing" the disease, though. Is it not just restoring the body to its original, pure state that was clouded by consumption of animal products?
    People are born with ( or get it through a virus... origins are still being researched ) type1 diabetes.

    People eat themselves into type 2 diabetes. Some foods are worse then others, but eating too much and not exercising enough will bring about type 2 diabetes.

    I have met vegans who got type 2 diabetes or who have been diagnosed "pre diabetic"( their systems are deteriorating in that direction ).

  17. #17
    Geoff
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    Quote veganator
    People are born with ( or get it through a virus... origins are still being researched ) type1 diabetes.
    Veganator - can you supply a reference for the virus theory?
    I suddenly became diabetic after many years on a vegan diet and the endocrinologist diagnosed it as type 1, saying that I would have to inject insulin. That was 18 months ago and I'm still only using tablets but also losing weight.

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    No. I read it a while back.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: type 2 diabetes

    "Defeating Diabetes" by Brenda Davis & Tom Barnard has a lot of good information about combatting diabetes naturally. It is basically vegan, but allows for an optional animal foods category. Most of the recipes are vegan, but when listing soy milk as an ingredient, will list non-fat milk as an option (at least the soy milk gets first billing!).

    It is important to know whether your diabetes is from an abnormal pancreas that is no longer able to produce insulin, or from the ability of your cells to resist normal levels of insulin. The insulin is supposed to transport sugar from the bloodstream to the cells of muscles and organs for their use. There may not be enough insulin due to a worn out pancreas, leading to high levels of sugar in the blood, or the cells may become unable to absorb sugar from the blood, in spite of normal insulin production by the pancreas, which will also result in high levels of sugar in the blood. Your doctor will be able to tell you what your own situation is.

    Posted by Geoff:
    Veganator - can you supply a reference for the virus theory?
    Page 169 of Diabetes: Prevention and Cure by C. Leigh Broadhurst says:

    "Type I diabetes is thought to stem from an autoimmune reaction to the pancreas, where the body mistakenly attacks and destroys its own pancreatic cells. In addition, viral infections (such as whooping cough, mumps, hepatitis, and cocksakie) and prolonged use of antibiotics are thought to cause or contribute to Type I diabetes."

    If you have a tendency to autoimmunity, and your immune system has been challenged by viral infection, this could indeed be the cause of developing Type I diabetes. This book is not a vegan dietary approach, but there is a lot of information about diabetes in it that you may not be able to get from your doctor, unless you have a holistic doctor. There is an excellent section full of foods and herbs to use that either support the pancreas, decrease the insulin resistance of cells, remove some of the sugar in the bloodstream, or act as plant based insulin does.

    Examples:

    Insulin substitutes- juices of bitter melon (Momordica charantia), jerusalem artichoke (also called sunchoke)

    To stimulate insulin secretion- Cinnamon, cloves, green tea, black tea, Gurmar (Gymnema sylvestre)

    Insulin resistance- Vitamins C and E, Chromium, Magnesium, alpha lipoic acid

    Dietary fiber is important as it slows the absorption of sugar into the blood.

    There's a lot more info, and a section on preventing or treating the complications due to diabetes. You must work closely with your doctor to monitor your blood sugar and insulin levels when trying any of these natural treatments.

  20. #20
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    Default Diabetes

    Can anyone please supply me with any facts or resources concerning vegetarians and diabetes?

    I heard an argument recently that stated vegetarians are at an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes because of their likelihood of consuming extra refined carbohydrates than omnivores do. I know it's ridiculous and I know I've seen statistics before that proved that vegan and vegetarians are in fact at a far lesser chance of developing the disease... however would like some reliable figures to back up my debate with. All I have so far is the PCRM site on diabetes: http://www.pcrm.org/health/prevmed/diabetes.html But was actually looking for a nice, neat pie diagram or chart of some kind that I can wave around knowledgeably. So if anybody knows any that might help, I'd really appreciate it Cheers!

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Diabetes

    There are a few studies around showing that vegetarians (and especially vegans) are less likely to be overweight or obese - and of course overweight is a factor in developing type 2 diabetes.

    One such study's mentioned here http://www.foodconsumer.org/777/8/Ve...t_eaters.shtml

    The link between diabetes and weight (rather than sugar consumption) is discussed here http://www.healthcastle.com/sugar-diabetes.shtml

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    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Diabetes and veganism

    How common is it for a vegan to have type 2 diabetes? Type 2 diabetes seems to come across as something that affects obese, fast food guzzling children and adults...but what a generally healthy vegan?

    I'm just curious...
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I am pretty sure that in another thread on diabetes I posted some info about how people who are not obese and follow good diets (like Geoff) can still get this disease. It was a long time ago though. Try a search Tigerlily.

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I don't know how to do a search on this forum! Everytime I search for something I keep on getting loads of irrelevant threads (like "What Pants Are You Wearing Today" and "Dating Vegans", etc).
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  25. #25
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Tigerlilyi have noticed that aswell!on the plus side i have found soem interesting threads from a while ago, but irrelevant to waht i was wanting nonetheless!

    have you googled?maybe just type diabetes and diet?

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    All I'm getting is vegan propaganda...I'd rather have more unbiased info.
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I don't think being vegan relates to diabetes so much as the actual diet a person eats. Obviously there are very healthy vegans but also vegans who eat a lot of processed, empty-calorie foods. I think being vegan lessens the chances of developing diabetes because vegans are often very health conscious and aware of what they are eating. I think the main things are to keep a healthy weight, consume enough "good fats" and whole grains, exercise apx. 30min/day, limit alcohol intake, and not smoke. I really believe that a vegan eating a healthy diet and exercising should definitely have a much lower chance of developing diabetes.

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I've read several studies on diabetes and veganism which I can't give you links too as they are on the university medical database.
    they all indicate that a switch to a healthy vegan diet improves the health status of people who are already type 2 diabetics.
    However, they say that a low fat, low salt vegan diet is beneficial so it can be assummed if you are a vegan who eats deep fried vegan food every night with loads of salt and are obese which is wuite possible even on a vegan diet there is no reason why you shouldn't become diabetic at some point.
    Silent but deadly :p

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I was on vegan outreach last night and it said Seventh Day Adventist vegetarians had half the diabetes as regular americans.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Hmm, interesting. I have a feeling I *could maybe* have diabetes. I just have a feeling in the back of my mind. But I keep on seeing on vegan sites that vegan diet is a cure all for everything and only obese people get diabetes. Hmm.
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  31. #31
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I did a search and got... this thread!
    I also got this though Tigerlily:
    Type 2 Diabetes
    I didn't use the search on the main page, I just used the "Search This Forum" on the Health forum's main page. Then you aren't searching the whole site. Is that what you did?
    I would be surprised if you have diabetes, but you should get a blood sugar test if you are worried.
    Last edited by flutterby; Mar 15th, 2006 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Thread now merged with the link.

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Thanks, Seaside. My doctor is a loser and will just send me off with a prescription of some sort. I will have to wait until I move out to another city and find a new doctor.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote Tigerlily
    Hmm, interesting. I have a feeling I *could maybe* have diabetes. I just have a feeling in the back of my mind. But I keep on seeing on vegan sites that vegan diet is a cure all for everything and only obese people get diabetes. Hmm.
    Tigerlily, my middle son, aged 17, was just diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. He's been vegan for his whole life. After we suspected it might be diabetes, because his symptoms exactly matched (constant thirst and dry mouth, he was drinking 14 litres of juice and water a day, weakness, vomiting undigested food, sores which weren't healing and eventually blurred vision), the first doctor who visited us didn't think it could be diabetes because my son's slim and the doctor thought only younger children could exhibit type 1. But that's not true. Apparently type 1 diabetes can manifest itself any time up till about age 25, and commonly in teenage years. If you're really worried you might be diabetic and you have the symptoms, you should have your fasting blood sugar measured.

    Type 1 diabetes typically emerges after a bout of illness. My children had all suffered very severe flu, the like of which I've never before experienced.
    once in a while you can get shown the light
    in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I have type 1 diabetes, as kokopelli said, it is usually diagnosed after an illness (anyone know why?? :S) I took a fall at school when I was around 10, then it was diagnosed. I'd get your BS taken if you're worried, can never be too careful.
    xxxxxx

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote Melanie
    I have type 1 diabetes, as kokopelli said, it is usually diagnosed after an illness (anyone know why?? :S)
    Page 169 of Diabetes: Prevention and Cure by C. Leigh Broadhurst says:

    "Type I diabetes is thought to stem from an autoimmune reaction to the pancreas, where the body mistakenly attacks and destroys its own pancreatic cells. In addition, viral infections (such as whooping cough, mumps, hepatitis, and cocksakie) and prolonged use of antibiotics are thought to cause or contribute to Type I diabetes."

    If you have a tendency to autoimmunity, and your immune system has been challenged by viral infection, this could indeed be the cause of developing Type I diabetes. This book is not a vegan dietary approach, but there is a lot of information about diabetes in it that you may not be able to get from your doctor, unless you have a holistic doctor. There is an excellent section full of foods and herbs to use that either support the pancreas, decrease the insulin resistance of cells, remove some of the sugar in the bloodstream, or act as plant based insulin does.

  36. #36
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    My immune system is very strong! I think I only ever had the flu once when I was a kid, and it was only for a day or two.

    The thing that is making me curious about having diabetes, is the fact that I urinate insane amounts everyday and I'm thirsty a lot. I probably urinate about 15-40 times a day and I'm not drinking crazy amounts of water either. I limit myself to 5-8 glasses a day even though I'm still thirsty for more. And every time I pee, it isn't a little tinkle with barely anything---it's like urinating with a full bladder every time.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    You shouldn't really limit yourself, just drink what you need. (and see a doctor asap)
    seaside ; thanks for that
    xxxx

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    If I don't limit myself, I pee my pants.

    I have to wait to see a doctor. My family doctor is a dickhead and won't take me seriously.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Demand a blood sugar test anyway- it's a very simple procedure! (They'll prick your finger and take a reading immediately).
    Here in the uk you can even get this done at most chemist shops.
    It is a monstrous thing to do, to slay a unicorn...you have slain something pure and defenceless and you will have but a half life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote Tigerlily
    If I don't limit myself, I pee my pants.

    I have to wait to see a doctor. My family doctor is a dickhead and won't take me seriously.
    Ah ok! Limiting perhaps good then.
    You could try going to your local hospital?

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Yeah, my son was urinating far more frequently than usual too, not surprising considering how much he was drinking.

    You must be able to get a blood test done somewhere.

    The good news is, insulin doesn't come from cows or pigs anymore. The nurse who set up the insulin drip for my son when we arrived at hospital was vegetarian and he said his brother was vegan, so he made a point of showing us the label, saying it was synthetic human insulin.
    once in a while you can get shown the light
    in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    On a completely random note; I HATE the smell of insulin. YUCKY

  43. #43
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    It smells of antiseptic methinks! (Has a diabetic partner)
    It is a monstrous thing to do, to slay a unicorn...you have slain something pure and defenceless and you will have but a half life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips.

  44. #44
    Geoff
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote kokopelli
    Apparently type 1 diabetes can manifest itself any time up till about age 25, and commonly in teenage years.
    Type 1 diabetes typically emerges after a bout of illness. My children had all suffered very severe flu, the like of which I've never before experienced.
    The endocrinologist diagnosed my diabetes as type 1 and I was over 60 when it manifested.
    Following the McDougall Program (sic) I was able to get off the medication for some months but it didn't last and I'm now back on the tabs.
    I'm convinced that there's a big emotional component to disease and I've just found studies that support this theory. There are references to such studies, from august publications like The Lancet, in 'Learned Optimism' by Martin Seligman.
    BTW - I still think that the McDougall programme is worth following as my cholesterol is down to 2.9 (112 US).

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    I agree about the emotional aspect, at least to the extent that people with a predisposition to type 1 diabetes might possibly have particular personality traits that go along with the physical aspects. I meant to ask my son's endocrinologist whether he'd noticed anything like that amongst his patients.

    I've been reading about herbs like gymnema sylvestris and pterocarpus marsupium that supposedly regenerate the pancreas and stimulate insulin production, but my son's unwilling to try them. He's worried about hypoglycaemia and also seems resigned to the idea that he'll be injecting insulin for the rest of his life. I tell him his auto-immune response is stretching so far that he won't even try helping himself. He also points out that the animal models they've used for testing the effects of these herbs involve chemical destruction of the pancreas, so regenerated cells aren't killed again by the auto-immune response as they would be in real type 1 diabetes.

    What is the McDougall programme?
    Are you sure you're really type 1?
    We've been led to believe it's inevitable that type 1 people will be on insulin injections for life, and if it turns out they're able to stop, it probably means the initial diagnosis was wrong.
    once in a while you can get shown the light
    in the strangest of places if you look at it right

  46. #46
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Update:
    My mom is going to make me an appointment with my doctor for a diabetes test. Hopefully he'll take me seriously! My paternal grandmother had diabetes, my paternal grandfather has diabetes. My mom's grandmother DIED from diabetes and she has an uncle with really bad diabetes too. It runs in family's right?
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  47. #47
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote kokopelli
    What is the McDougall programme?
    Are you sure you're really type 1?
    We've been led to believe it's inevitable that type 1 people will be on insulin injections for life, and if it turns out they're able to stop, it probably means the initial diagnosis was wrong.
    www.drmcdougall.com - vegan low fat high starch.
    My Brisbane endocrinologist, who teaches at UQ, said that I was T1, based on blood tests but an American endocrinologist who posted on another vegan forum (now defunct) said that I'd be regarded as T2 in the US. Maybe I should move countries!
    I'd do a McDougall live in programme if I could afford it but with air fares it would be around AU$ 10,000 which is too much!

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Diabetes and veganism

    Quote Tigerlily
    Update:
    My mom is going to make me an appointment with my doctor for a diabetes test. Hopefully he'll take me seriously! My paternal grandmother had diabetes, my paternal grandfather has diabetes. My mom's grandmother DIED from diabetes and she has an uncle with really bad diabetes too. It runs in family's right?
    It CAN run in families, I was the first in my family

  49. #49

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    Default Vegan Diet reverses Diebetes Type 2, improves Kidney Function

    This article was on CNN Health today:

    Vegan diet reverses diabetes symptoms, study finds

    Friday, July 28, 2006; Posted: 12:08 p.m. EDT (16:08 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- People who ate a low-fat vegan diet, cutting out all meat and dairy, lowered their blood sugar more and lost more weight than people on a standard American Diabetes Association diet, researchers said this week.

    They lowered their cholesterol more and ended up with better kidney function, according to the report published in Diabetes Care, a journal published by the American Diabetes Association.
    Participants said the vegan diet was easier to follow than most because they did not measure portions or count calories. Three of the vegan dieters dropped out of the study, compared with eight on the standard diet.

    "I hope this study will rekindle interest in using diet changes first, rather than prescription drugs," Dr. Neal Barnard, president of the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, which helped conduct the study, told a news conference Thursday.

    An estimated 18 million Americans have type-2 diabetes, which results from a combination of genetics and poor eating and exercise habits. They run a high risk of heart disease, stroke, kidney failure, blindness and limb loss.

    Barnard's team and colleagues at George Washington University, the University of Toronto and the University of North Carolina tested 99 people with type-2 diabetes, assigning them randomly to either a low-fat, low-sugar vegan diet or the standard American Diabetes Association diet.
    After 22 weeks on the diet, 43 percent of those on the vegan diet and 26 percent of those on the standard diet were either able to stop taking some of their drugs such as insulin or glucose-control medications, or lowered the doses.

    The vegan dieters lost 14 pounds on average while the diabetes association dieters lost 6.8 pounds.

    An important level of glucose control called a1c fell by 1.23 points in the vegan group and by 0.38 in the group on the standard diet.

    Dropping drugs

    A1c gives a measure of how well-controlled blood sugar has been over the preceding three months.

    In the dieters who did not change whatever cholesterol drugs they were on during the study, LDL or "bad" cholesterol fell by 21 percent in the vegan group and 10 percent in the standard diet group.

    The vegan diet removed all animal products, including meat, fish and dairy. It was also low in added fat and in sugar.

    The American Diabetes Association diet is more tailored, taking into account the patient's weight and cholesterol. Most patients on this diet cut calories significantly and were told to eat sugary and starchy foods in moderation.

    All 99 participants met weekly with advisers who advised them on recipes, gave them tips for sticking to their respective diets and offered encouragement.

    "We have got a combination here that works successfully," said Dr. David Jenkins of the University of Toronto, who worked on the study. "The message that we so often get with diet is that it is no good because nobody follows it for very long."

    Dr. Joshua Cohen, George Washington University associate professor of medicine, said everyone found to have diabetes is told to start eating more carefully.

    "That may be among the hardest things that any of us can do," Cohen told the news conference.

    The vegan diet "is at least as good, if not better than, traditional approaches," Cohen said.

    Vance Warren, a 36-year-old retired police officer living in Washington, said he lowered his a1c from 10.4, considered uncontrolled diabetes, to 5.1, considered a healthy level, over 18 months. "My life is much better being 74 pounds lighter," Warren told the news conference.

    Copyright 2006 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

    Original Article :

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/07/28...eut/index.html

  50. #50
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vegan Diet reverses Diebetes Type 2, improves Kidney Function

    Excellent stuff. My mum's finally starting to listen to me now that she's been diagnosed with diabetes. She hates being a 'pill junky' as she puts it. Go Vegan then...

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