I agree with you, xrodolfox...I stated many of the reasons on the page 9 of this thread (#172). I have students in my class often say, "well, my parents wore me out and told me how stupid I was, but I turned out great. So I'm going to do the same (or 'I do the same') with my kids." I guess these students didn't become violent mass murderers or anything, but that doesn't mean that physical and verbal violence are the best parenting method. Anyway, I know I'm about to repeat myself, so I'll stop there and let you read post #172 on this thread if you want to see my whole view on the subject.