I believe that spanking is unethical.
I believe that spanking is unethical.
context is everything
Wish my parents had thought that. Too bad this thread couldnt have continued, as to why he thought that. He was just trying to sound bad-ass.
“I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott
How do you define spanking? Is it hitting/slapping a child with your hand? If so, in my case it was a lot more extreme than spanking.
I have often been beaten with leather belts when I was a child. If I remember correctly I have been beaten from age 8 till about 15-16. I was beaten for scoring less in school, for being naughty and for bullying. My teachers use to beat me with a wooden scale.
I do not advocate spanking, but speaking for myself I think it has worked on me. I was a naughty shit when I was little. I used to terrorise other kids at school. Once, my mom whipped me so hard that I peed in pain. I got whipped for offences like breaking branches of trees at school, stoning a street dog, not doing my homework and for failing in my exams. Getting beatings were a regular occurance in my childhood.
My parents taught me right and wrong by doing it the harsh way. I got shouted at and I was very scared of my parents. I never listened to negotiations and they hence felt that getting the heavy artillery out was the only solution.
I would never beat my child, as I find it very unethical. But I have to admit, all the whips, beatings and lashings I have experienced have surprisingly worked on me, even though it was wrong. Whatever I am today, I attribute it to my parents. Even my veganism is due to my parents. I love my parents and they have undying love for me.
It would be interesting to learn what my vegan parents's opinion about spanking is, in their current vegan days.
Life is like a boomerang: What goes around comes around - "Karma"rocks!
All kids are little shits some time in there life. My 2 boys are not angels but i can say for sure they have never done anything so bad that i would even consider slapping them. I hear stories of people slapping there kids because they have walked out in the road without looking and slapping them was there way of stopping them doing it again, why would that stop them? surely sitting down and explaining the dangers would be enough. My son used to slap me around the face when he was young, would anyone think that me slapping him back would be a good example. Try teaching a kid to stop smacking by smacking back makes no sense to me.
As i have said on may occasions i was hit as a child, i saw my mum throw my brother down the stairs and used to beg my mum not to hit my brother. People hit not to control there children but because they can not control there temper. I have been so angry at times i thought my head would explode but am able to control myself by walking away and coming back and telling them what they did and why it was wrong.
I can not abide parents who let there kids get away with being little gits, running around causing distress so i do believe in setting strict guidelines and teaching and teaching again about respecting others, people who think that just because you dont cause physical pain to your child you are not controlling then have some issues they need to sort out themselves.
Cobweb I am so sorry you had to endure that abuse. I did too and it stinks. I swore I'd never have kids either because of it but 2 years of intense therapy and a great husband changed my mind. I now have 3 (ages 7, 5 and 2). And guess what? They are great kids and I've never once had to spank them but I've also taught them from early on to be nice. If they weren't I just used time outs for a few minutes and that worked like a charm.
I think spanking is just mean.
thanks, karenann
i did smack my son once but it was horrendous. My mother told me that kids need to be hit.
I just read through this thread again and tears sprang to my eyes because i realised how happy i feel now and how much i don't need my parents anymore.
I've lost my cool as a parent. I'm no angel, and neither are my kids.
But just like a new vegan relapses and eats meat, the flaw is human, but it's still unethical. Heck, you could say the same thing about almost all human activities.
Ideally, spanking wouldn't even be socially accepted.
Instead, methods for parent and children to be supported would exist and be easily accessible instead of the vitriol parents receive when their kids aren't quiet in public.
Personally, I go to site that talk about "Unconditional Parenting" for that support... but few parents know about it. Let alone a social network that encourages it like spanking is encouraged on the Christian Radio Stations I listen to in the AM. Ugh.
context is everything
..but what would they do with all the cows?..
Not really but she is and it's mostly down to her I reckon.
..but what would they do with all the cows?..
Me too. I haven't spoken to my parents in 9.5 years. They are miserable horrible people who shouldn't have had kids. They believe they should be hit as well.
My sister hit her 2 kids and now her oldest just had a baby (17 months old now). I can't be around them because it bothers me. My niece hits that toddler too. It's the only way they know how to discipline and it just breaks my heart.
My 3 kids are still young (7, 5 and 2) and honestly they are the best people I know. They are smart, funny, loving, sweet, caring, imaginative, playful, etc. I truly enjoy their company which surprises most people since when everyone else is scrambling for a girls night out I'm content to stay home and cuddle or play with mine. I'm a stay at home mom so they are pretty much always with me.
I could never imagine saying something so horrible about my kids. They really are nice.
Karenann, I understand about how hard it can be to be around your parents. Even if they shouldn't have gotten married or had kids, I think there must be a reason; something to make all the turmoil "worth it"... (now to live up to that!) Anyway, I just have to remind myself that they're regular people and have gone through very painful experiences. I look at my parents like peers rather than parents, treat them as someone with the same pain and goals and stress. I respect them because I can't imagine how hard it is to be a parent. Needless to say, I hope I never hit my children or punish them in anger. I think using anger is the absolute worst way to discipline, its really painful emotionally for the child.
“I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship.” ~ Alcott
I might be totally wrong, but it doesn't seem to me like the spankings worked, since you say you continued be bad throughout your childhood and they had to keep spanking you until you were 15-16. I'm wondering, did the beatings really take 7-8 years to start working, or did you just grow out of your bad behaviour (like bullying, etc) as you got older and more mature?
"Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer
I agree with you. I haven't spanked my son and he's yet to get in trouble at school and he just finished 1st grade. As a matter of fact he got the award for being the best all around student. I was so proud (sorry if I seem braggy). He also was the best reader, had high grades, and teachers said he was just a joy to be around. My girls (5 and 2) and the same way very well behaved and people ask me all the time how do I get them to do that? There is no short answer but I can say it did NOT include hitting them.
i agree.
my son used to have a friend who was smacked on a DAILY basis. First thing he did when he came to our house was smack our rabbit. Of course i was angry but i was also more upset for him .
imo all smacking does is makes a person immune.
I used to be smacked as a kid, mainly by my mum. My dad had a horrendous temper and once punched a door so hard that it cracked, and just seeing him lose control like that scared me a lot. He used to throw stuff at me aswell, and once when I was 14/15 he almost hit me in the face, but my brother was there and managed to stop him.
Smacking should be illegal. I don't care if it's controlled or through temper, it is wrong!
"I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
I didn't realise at all that smacking was illegal in so many countries! I wonder how that is enforced.
Last edited by BlackCats; Oct 29th, 2008 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Added
OMG to the Canada rules, do people really still use implements on their kids these days (at any age???)
so the U.K and U.S are both in the dark ages with this aswell as many other things, hmm..............
Hey no problem
I was smacked constantly for things as slight as playing too loud, even beat with a metal swivel chair once.
bubsandbaxter.com
For people-hating pound-pets.
That's awful, eeplox!
Just reading through a bit of this thread has made me feel upset and angry on the behalf of a lot of the posters.
"If you don't have a song to sing you're okay, you know how to get along humming" Waltz (better than fine) - Fiona Apple
Well, in Central America beating your kids is the 'grounding' technique and everybody does it so I won't act like my parents are evil for being 'normal' in their culture, but I was more than spanked as a child lol. Never by my dad though, he knew he was too strong to hit me, mostly by my godmother and my mom.
I refuse to be traumatized by this since if I chose to be a victim in my head then I would be even more messed up, plus I have to say that 99% of people there have to go through it/have gone through it so I'm nothing special...eventually you even take it as a joke lol, but of course I would never do it to one of my kids/family members.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
- Samuel Beckett
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.~ Mahatma Ghandi
^ you see, I used to think the same way too, and I noticed that basically I was excusing my sadness and unhappiness with it when I could choose not to. Remember, every feeling is a choice. Just think about how many people have to go through it, and if it wasn't severe like some cases, then you can laugh about it (without doing it yourself of course) and forget about it... I am so serious about everyone in the world, except higher educated parents, beating their kids, and imagine if everyone except those educated parent's children feeling like us? Then nothing would get done and everyone would feel terrible about their childhood. It takes some time to move on though, but it is completely possible, and one has to be ready.
"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
- Samuel Beckett
That shouldn't be allowed to happen. Have you thought of asking your GP or an organisation like Women's Aid about getting some counselling and support?I also have difficulty dealing with it more so now I have let partners do the same as my father did
My Mum was beaten as a child
I was smacked
My son is 5 and he hasn't been smacked/spanked yet (and we don't plan to start).
I think there is in part a generational thing. My parents genuinely believed in 'spare the rod, spoil the child' - that they would have been failing as parents if they had not hit us.
My Mum was totally perplexed one day - she had seen someone hit their dog and was (rightly) appalled - how could someone do that to a defenseless creature? But she was thrown and a bit upset when I said -'so why do you think its OK to hit children?' - I regret saying it now as it caused her needless upset and will change nothing.
I disagree totally with those who posted earlier about their belief that it is necessary to physically chastise children. I think you start with good consistent parenting - which involves good support - its a brave person who goes against the grain in their community. I find it interesting that my son is a gentle, non-violent soul, whereas the boy nearby, whose parents are from a smacking culture, is an aggressive tearaway whose first answer to everything is to hit you. (of course, you could argue they have to hit him because he is so naughty and his behaviour is the cause not the effect, but I wouldn't believe you, and neither would you if you saw his parents).
If my son started tearing the wings off insects (someone gave that earlier as an excuse to hit children) I would want to know what had gone wrong - seriously - it would be so out of character.
I did once come close to hitting him. I actually lifted my arm up, but I regained control and directed the blow to his seat, not him. While I was driving along a busy street, he undid his car seatbelt, wound down the window and stood up, leaning out of the car window. He wasn't old enough to understand the danger. I stopped the car, counted to 10 and moved his seat into the front next to me, so I could grab him if he did it again. And I got a better car seat the next day.
I found he responded to best to me speaking in a different voice, and that is still my best way of instilling discipline. So immediate danger - scary voice (very deep) - that tells him to stop whatever it is straight away, whereas for general guidance - teacher voice.
Perhaps I am lucky to have such a good boy - I hear of families where different children need different levels of discipline. I think a certain amount of a child's nature is inherent. But I am sure the environment makes a big difference
oooops sorry for waffling it into such a long post
v
It was a long post not a waffle though!
i dont agree with hitting children. I dont beleive it does any good whatsoever.
but then I was hit, and I was a good kid and even as a low self esteemed person do not beleive I deserved to be physically hurt for the many 'reasons' I was.
I was. I don't remember it hurting much though, and sometimes I must have been a really horrible child and I'm sure I deserved it.
I don't know if it did any good either though.
Both my parents used to spank me when I was a child.
I think my father stopped relatively early - when I was 5-6 years old.
My mother continued hitting me or trying to hit me till I was about 19 and I believe she stopped only because I became physically stronger that her and I tried to restrain her and probably she was afraid that I would hit her back.
She openly says that she regrets not having beaten me enough when I was little, because she believes that would prevent me from becoming a bad and selfish person that I am now. Isn't that funny?
My experiences were similar to yours Marrers and many others who have been brave enough to write about their painful pasts.
My twin brother and I were raised by our maternal Maori/French/Italian Grandparents. My maternal Grandparents felt it was the right thing to do for my brother and I to stay with our paternal Grandparents every other weekend and a week or so in the holidays.
From early on my paternal Grandparents were physically and emotionally abusive towards us. Their lives as children were hard and they held a lot of anger and pain from experiences in their lives that they never dealt with. Regardless, it doesn’t make it right. As babies, we were left to cry in a dark room and shaken. As we grew older the physical and emotional abuse got worse. We were never aloud out to play with the neighbours children. The anger and abuse we suffered was followed no pattern. We were frequently told that if it wasn’t for our mother, our dad would have still been alive. They expected us to “know” everything and not have to be taught anything. They also expected us to be like “their other friends Grandchildren who were perfect”. We were a great disappointment to them.
I was considered the “evil/naughty/rebellious” one, while my brother was “too quiet/reserved/lazy. In truth I was/am curious about the world around me and the people in it. My brother was/is more a people watcher and practical.
On returning home, we were always quiet and very clingy to our maternal Grandparents. It was often commented on by them, but we just said we missed them greatly and were glad to be home. My paternal Grandparents were careful not to show any signs of abuse outside of “their” family. We were threatened if we said anything.
Gently over the years, my maternal Grandparents asked us why we would try a get out of going to see them. There were times I was so scared to go, that I physically became ill and would shake. My brother would say: “We’re in this together and we have each other”. When I “took” ill we stayed at home.
The final straw came when we were 14 and my paternal Grandmother dragged me down the hall kicking and punching me, while screaming how useless we were. All because she said we took too long at the local Dairy (corner shop). My brother tried to stop her and she threw him against the wall, then punched and kicked him. When she finally stopped we got the train home and told our maternal Grandparents everything that had gone on for years. My French/Italian Grandfather was a retired Policeman and they drove over to my paternal Grandparents house and he said calmly, but firmly, if they ever did anything to hurts us in any way again, he would have them arrested and charged with child abuse. I’d never seen my Maori Grandmother so angry, she was almost purple with rage. My brother and I refused to stay over with them after that and we hardly saw them. When they died we didn’t go to their funerals, cry or feel sad.
We were naughty and had to learn right from wrong as all children do. It’s part of how we learn, grow and develop into people. Yes, we got told off by our maternal Grandparents and it was explained what we did wrong and the consequences of our actions. My maternal Grandfather had a large law book that he used to throw on the dining table when he was angry and he would turn the pages of the book while giving us the lecture. The faster the pages the angrier he was. He was always firm, yet fair.
My OH mother proudly declared that she has beaten his temper out of him when he was younger. She also used to hit his dad who was very ill with advanced Parkinson’s disease. My OH doesn’t believe in hitting any person or animal.
If/when I have children, I hope I will raise them to understand their actions and reactions to things in a responsible way. A gentle tap should be all that is needed.
I make no apologies for myself, my passions, my love, my honesty, my intensity, my soul. Reach beyond your fears and take all of me or nothing at all.
I dont remember getting spanked.
My mum once bashed mine and my sisters heads together though. My dads voice was enough, we knew when to stop with him. I was never a naughty child,my sister just blamed everything on me!
I dont think id spank my child. They should respect you enough to stop messing about when you tell them.
'he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man'
Wow, this is an old thread, but I felt compelled to reply anyways. I was spanked as a kid and well into my teens actually. I wouldn't necessarily call the kind of spanking my mom administered abuse, but it definitely did some damage on me mentally. She almost literally ruled the house with an iron fist. I was always so scared to speak my mind about anything for fear of "being out of line" and getting spanked. I seriously lived my life in fear and I bottled up all of my feelings and emotions because I was too scared to say anything. That trend has followed me well into my adult life and I'm now having to do hardcore work with a counselor, self help books, etc. to learn how to talk about my emotions and not fear getting spanked for it. My mom meant well, but damn did she do me a dis-service. I will NEVER spank my children when I become a mom. I will treat my kids like human beings with valid thoughts and opinions and they will respec me, but not fear me. There is a BIG difference.
Coming from a strict Chinese family, I was spanked by my father for things like whining, lying, making a mess, being rude and such. When it came to smaller things like talking at the table, playing with my food and stuff, my father would smack my hand with his chopsticks.
I don't hold anything against him, although I probably won't hit my children, with the exception of the occasional spanking if they simply refuse to do something. But that's just the way I was brought up.
Where I live the kids could do with more than a spanking; their behaviour merits something more severe... like a good talking to. The little brats are criminals in the making and I don't think spanking would cure them. It's not simply a case of nuture versus nature, I think the cultural environment has its fair share of responsibility and not least parental control.
I was spanked as a child, it was the traditional way to bring up kids in those days. It had no psychological ill effects.
I have not spanked my child except once when I lost my temper when he persisted in doing something he was previously spoken to about it; he's a normal young man now and has never made reference to the event.
There's no simple answer to this problem, each case is unique and needs a unique response.
^ but its my theory - and my personal experience actually - that many of those little hoodlums you speak of, Tizer, were most probably skelped on a pretty much daily basis, all it taught them was disrespect. My mother used frequent physical violence against me and i had zero respect for her, because all i saw in front of me was a messed up person who couldn't hold her temper or handle herself or her children.
Hitting only makes you fear not respect. Like cobby i ended up thinking my mum was a woman with no control, she had no way of controlling us except hitting which just prolonged the problem. You tell a kid off, take them aside and explain why there actions are not acceptable, hitting makes kids feel anger, makes them think they are disliked and certainly doesnt make them behave better.
I have a few repressed childhood memories, I think... I mean some of it seems patchy. I can't really remember ever being happy as a child, apart from when I was very young at my grandparents and a trip to the Netherlands.
I do remember being smacked, but my Dad was the worse. I remember once he came in the room and beat us both with a hairbrush and then Mum got angry at him for being so harsh. Mum normally smacked us with her hands, but I remember the hairbrush most because I was so frightened.
My father is a nasty man, but a coward. He kept my Mum in a state of subservience for years and they divorced only when he lifted a fist to threaten her in front of my brother and I.
One of my most vivid childhood memories was that moment...
Anyway, I don't wanna go in to a lotta that really... A lot of what I experienced from parents, well my Mum has always been cool.
I used to go to my Dad's on a weekend, but I stopped because his partner is a nasty piece of work. Probably why they suit each other...
She used to control us psychologically. She once got in to bed with me and told me my body was disgusting and if I wore a swimming suit on holiday, people would laugh. She did things like try to make me and my brother kiss her feet and call us idiots and told him if he didn't do the housework, she would stress my Dad out and he would have a heart attack... I don't really wanna write more here as I'd rather forget.
I think that is is disgusting to hit or bully children. People don't know what damage it can do, it stays with you forever....
I don't understand how it is justifiable.
Puca and others,
I'm sorry to hear about your experiences.
I wasn't abused as a child but I was abused in a domestic relationship as an adult. After that I went vegan.
I wonder if this is like that with anyone else that after suffering themselves as children or in bad domestic set ups, they can empathise more on how animals are treated?
What do others think?
I agree Dreama - and if there can be an 'upside' to abuse it's that, for me, anyway, it made me strive for justice for others .
Puca do you not think it might be best to let it all out (though not necessarily here). I bottled up my past for so many years, and it made me ill .
I'm glad this thread was bumped actually, it's a comfort for me to see what i posted in May, shortly before i last saw my parents. Makes me know i did the right thing recently .
I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty
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