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Thread: Vegans don't use honey

  1. #51
    Kevster
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    Default Re: honey

    Had a co-op party after a work day, people brought some food and we cooked some, i contributed a fruit cake . I sampled ALL four desserts/cakes on offer, and afterward a chap comes up to me and says, there's honey in the cake i made, do you think any full on vegans are about?

    To which i could say nothing. I don't eat honey and for someone to bring non vegan food onto the dining table without properly labelling it, (heck, it shouldn't have been non vegan anyway) was incredible to me.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: honey

    Quote Kevster
    Had a co-op party after a work day, people brought some food and we cooked some, i contributed a fruit cake . I sampled ALL four desserts/cakes on offer, and afterward a chap comes up to me and says, there's honey in the cake i made, do you think any full on vegans are about?

    To which i could say nothing. I don't eat honey and for someone to bring non vegan food onto the dining table without properly labelling it, (heck, it shouldn't have been non vegan anyway) was incredible to me.
    That bad. Where I work we have morning tea once in a while but I never eat the cake. Many people have taken to incuding fruit, like cut melons and strawberries or pineapple which means I can eat them. I just assume that the cake will have something in it that I wouldn't be interested in eating.

    Antony

  3. #53
    Kevster
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    Default Re: honey

    It would have been nice to correct the chap, but quite frankly i was in no particular mood to address him on the matter. And that in itself is a sorry state of affairs, i'm pretty irritated by the lack of respect given to vegans, and he might have got a disproportionate reaction to what he probably deserved.

    Nevertheless, once the other full on vegans have left after the week-end, i'll be letting people know that it is unacceptable to me, while i live in this house.

  4. #54

    Default Re: honey

    Part of the reason why I'm vegan is because I don't agree people should make money out of things they don't own. This is why I wont eat honey.

  5. #55

    Default Re: honey

    Quote Yoggy
    I think that sometimes we choose the vegan option only for our own benefit, so that we feel better (like in throwing out leather products, etc), even though it won't make a difference to anybody (animal or otherwise) but ourselves.
    I just had a very brief "conflict" with my nephew about this. I still wear my leather shoes (most of which I've had for at least a decade) and he asked why I was wearing leather if I've gone vegan. I assured him that I would no longer buy any leather shoes, but I am not going to discard those that I already have as I'd see that as more of a waste. I will NOT buy any more leather shoes now though
    When you are guided by compassion and loving-kindness, you are able to look deeply into the heart of reality and see the truth.--Thich Nhat Hanh

  6. #56

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    Default Re: honey

    i have the same thing... i am not going to waste the leather, because then it's even worse imo, the animal died and then was wasted even further... however, there r certain animal product things i will no longer wear of mine (those that i can give away)
    Peace Love Surf.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: honey

    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    I *do* understand how the bees help make the wine...(just like worms help make our soil richer). However, I don't understand how taking or eating the honey the bees make (commercial or otherwise) has an impact on this. Perhaps I am not understanding you (but I want to ).
    I'm not sure I understand a few posts here, too, CC. I don't think like the sound of "contracts" between animals and people. Animals can't consent to their sides of the "bargain". After all, neither honey nor wine are essential for human survival, so the bees should be left alone to pollinate the flowers of their choice.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: honey

    Well, eventually its a crusade we can make after all the newly available arable land from no-longer-animal-based agriculture: beekeeping.

    Alot of crops require introduced hives (moved thru the season) to be commercially viable. The hobby apiarist is not a focus of concern to me. Rather, the major honey producers are a source of many problems. It just shows all the connections we make to our lifestyle. Right now I am greatly worried about the palm-oil plantations killing Orangutans on Borneo. How bitterly ironic that my vegan marg may be contributing. I take my decisions based on the facts as I see them. We all do.
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  9. #59
    lauren rae
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    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    As far as using something that tastes and works like honey, there is always agave nectar. There are lots of things there is no real workable vegan "substitute" for, but honey isn't one of them.
    \

    I've had that before...never thought it could be used like honey. Could I find that in a grocery store?

  10. #60

    Default Re: honey

    Quote mophoto
    that's funny you mentioned that- when i first went vegan in july i still bought that wonderful frozen meal. only twice! i think i will e-mail them.

    on my last road trip i found a vegan restaurant on-line and really wanted to go. it was quite good, called the yabba pot, in baltimore. what was disturbing was that they included honey in their smoothies for an extra fee, and they sold honey there. it really pissed me off.
    Did you ever write Amy's? I did and they said they "haven't found a suitable substitute for honey." I find that a bit disheartening, as there are many substitutes.

    Some of you seemed surprised, but I too have seen some products claim to be vegan, but they contained honey (Amy's doesn't do that).
    When you are guided by compassion and loving-kindness, you are able to look deeply into the heart of reality and see the truth.--Thich Nhat Hanh

  11. #61

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    Default Re: honey

    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    Lauren, only you can decide for yourself if you feel it would be "okay" to use the bees' honey; However, know this...it wouldn't be "vegan" in practice, as the honey isn't yours to take, it is the bees and is an animal product and therefore NOT vegan.

    As far as using something that tastes and works like honey, there is always agave nectar. There are lots of things there is no real workable vegan "substitute" for, but honey isn't one of them.
    Yea. Honey is an animal product. Therefore it is not part of the vegan diet.
    I use pure organic maple syrup or fruit concentrate to sweeten stuff.
    I have also come across "vegans" who eat honey. It is up to people what they eat but no way is honey vegan. Even before I went vegan I used to buy honey from small local producers but I don't buy it now and if something has bee products (honey, propolis, beeswax) in the ingredient list I don't buy, because bee products are not vegan.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  12. #62
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    Default Re: honey

    I was browsing on veganessentials.com this afternoon & came across a product called "Just Like Honey Gluten-Free Rice Nectar" - it's made up of brown rice syrup, chicory syrup, maple syrup & natural vegan flavours & claims to be honey-flavoured. If anyone is really hankering for the honey flavouring perhaps this could be a good option for you?

    Diana
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  13. #63
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    Default Re: honey

    Honey = animal product
    sounds simple to me.
    whether your the size of a blue whale or a small ant your still an animal.
    In my opinion of course hehehe
    Frisky as a flea on a fat dog

  14. #64
    FR
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    Default Re: honey

    Brown rice syrup is great.

  15. #65

    Default Re: honey


  16. #66
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: honey

    Just use agave nectar and be done with it.

    Honey is as dead as fur.

  17. #67

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    Default Re: honey

    My brother is a beekeeper/researcher. Hanging around his 'hives' for a while was enough to convince me how unnatural and cruel honey is. Let's control these amazingly communicative wee little animals (sorry - insects) who are working for their queen and steal their regurgitated hard work. They won't know any differently. Smoke 'em, squash 'em, pin 'em, trick and manipulate 'em.

  18. #68
    FR
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    Default Re: honey

    So I'm browsing through the latest issue of VegNews and I see that a fellow board member had their views with reagrds to honey published on page 18. Congrats. I was glad to read over what other vegans think about the consumption of honey outside from this forum. Basically, they all felt the same way, that honey is NOT vegan, and they're right!

  19. #69

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    Default Re: honey

    I just found date molasses at my local middle eastern grocer. It is so delicious! Who needs honey?

  20. #70
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    Default Re: honey

    That sounds really good, stickydate. I think I will Google to see if I can find out how to make that.

  21. #71

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    Default Re: honey

    It's delicious, especially on vanilla soy ice cream

  22. #72
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    Default Re: honey

    Quote stickydate
    I just found date molasses at my local middle eastern grocer. It is so delicious! Who needs honey?
    I will have to look for it! I may live in a small island but thank goodness, we have a Middle Eastern store.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  23. #73
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    Default Re: honey

    Quote Ratolinet View Post
    What if I eat no dairy, no eggs, no honey, but instead, I use these products as cosmetics... am I a vegan or simply a vegetarian?
    Depends what you're intentions were. If you had no interest in eventually replacing your non-vegan cosmetics to vegan stuff, then I'd call you a strict vegetarian. If you DID have intentions of using vegan cosmetics but are trying to use up your non-vegan stuff, then I'd consider you to be vegan.

    I still use some non-vegan cosmetics from my non-vegan days that are still good to use and I will replace them with vegan alternatives when I need to. And I still consider myself vegan.
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  24. #74

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    Default Re: honey

    Quote stickydate View Post
    I just found date molasses at my local middle eastern grocer. It is so delicious! Who needs honey?
    I think this may be what is known in the UK as date syrup, its the pure sugar from the date.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: honey

    see here
    http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...t=plant+fields
    for a discussion on that very topic
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  26. #76
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    Default Re: honey

    I'll be honest...when I first became vegan honey didn't even cross my mind till I saw people talking about it on this forum. I have a box of cereal that has honey in it (it's one of the last ingredients).

    I'm going to finish eating the rest of it because I can't afford to throw away food. I don't buy anything with honey in it but I wasn't as strict about it as I was about milk and eggs. After hearing all the stuff about honey I'm going to be just as strict about it from now on.

    I never kill bugs that make their way into my room unless they catch me by surprise so it makes no sense for me to eat honey.

  27. #77
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: honey

    Hi, yes I scoop up all insects on a piece of paper and put them outside, and I don't use pesticides in my yard or on my house plants. I believe it is wrong to abuse any life forms, animal or insect.

  28. #78
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    Default Re: honey

    Quote lauren rae View Post
    But...you "absolutely no honey" vegans
    There is no other type of vegan, vegans do not eat animal products, bees are animals, therefore vegans who eat honey intentionally are not vegans at all.

    Even if you don't think taking honey from them will harm them you are still stealing from them, they don't collect that stuff for fun you know.

    To answer your questions -

    No I don't only buy organic food, I'd like to be able to and try to grow as much as I can myself but I cannot be held responsible for the methods used by the farmers who produce my food any more than for buying things from meat eaters and therefore giving money towards the death of the animal that will be their dinner.

    I don't use pesticides, there are alternatives, companion planting for instance.

    I will scoop insects up onto a piece of paper and place them outside. What do you do with them?
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  29. #79
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    Default Re: honey

    Yes, I do buy organic food only, and I do not use pesticides. I don't kill insects inside my home. Granted, I live on a boat, and don't get any, but I never used to when I lived in a house.

    I don't knock people who use honey, and I don't think any other forum members knock people who use honey either. What I want to know from people who insist on using honey, and claim vegans are being too extreme when they exclude honey from their diet, is why? Honey is such a minor part of any omni's diet, why argue to keep it? There's no comparison to the arguments about lack of protein by excluding meat, or lack of calcium from excluding dairy, the two most popular, and bogus, reasons for continuing to eat flesh and milk. There is no major nutritional component to honey in the human diet, and absolutely no care whatsoever needs to be taken to ensure that its nutrients are replaced by suitable plant-based foods. It may seem like too trivial an item for vegans to argue about, but it is also an extremely trivial item for anyone else to insist on including it in the diet. Unlike giving up cheese, for example, which many people are addicted to, giving up honey is so incredibly easy, why cling to its inclusion in the diet, and call people who won't eat it extreme? It comes from animals, it is utterly unecessary to human survival, and its just plain silly to make such a big deal out of it.

  30. #80
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    Default Re: honey

    i like bees, i used to never eat honey when little as i thought it was mean to steal. but i was told to drink milk to be strong :S i too agree that there cannot be a vegan who eats honey by choice, its different, say, by accident or finishing cereals you already have when you decide to go vegan, throwing out food doesnt help people, animals or the environment.
    i met someone a while back who proclaimed to be vegan, but had honey in their tea. to me, that by choice, is like the vegetarians who eat fish.
    it is so easy to cut honey out of the diet anyway. as for insects, its hard, walking down the pavement may kill sereral or none. in the flat i get my OH to remove bugs (i have a totally irrational fear of bugs, and i am so ashamed, though i love watching them, and we go spider watching sometimes) as for food, we shop at a local greengrocers, due to the supermarket produce been rubbish, and no organic local produce for mileswe dont drive either to get there.there is an unofficial organic farm shop but being 4 miles out and not on a bus route, thats saved for the days when rucksacks, wellies and a craving for organic marrows occurs
    Vegan Forum: keeping me sane in the world of the ignorant.

  31. #81
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    Default Re: honey

    Bees are killed in the manufacture of honey, accidentally and purposefully. Would I kill a bee in my home that was causing me no harm? No way.
    Would I pay someone else to do it, where I couldn't see; just so I could steal their food and use it for myself? No.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  32. #82
    Mahk
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    Default Re: honey

    "Let the bees be."

    Sorry, I don't know the source of that quote, but it pretty much sums it up for me.

    Trivia Question: Guess what was one of the most hotly debated issues of the day when Donald Watson, along with six friends, coined the term "vegan" and founded the Vegan Society in 1944?

    Answer: Honey!

  33. #83
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Hi everybody, here are some links about vegan and honey:
    Why Honey is Not Vegan
    Is honey vegan?
    Joanne Stepaniak on honey
    The Vegan Society on bees
    The Vegan Society on honey

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Trivia Question: Guess what was one of the most hotly debated issues of the day when Donald Watson, along with six friends, coined the term "vegan" and founded the Vegan Society in 1944?

    Answer: Honey!
    True - and we know what their conclusion was!

    I know some people think that since most humans - including vegans - are buying plants that are harvested in a mechanical way that may mean that mice or insects are harmed or killed in the process, we might as well harm or kill bees as well. And while it's true that we may harm or even kill insects or other animals unintentionally, or even kill a human in a car accident unintenionally, vegans don't think that this gives us an excuse to kill or harm someone else - intentionally or not.

    Plus, it's not only about counting dead insects or harmful actions, it's a about a way to look at other, living beings. IF we don't see other humans or non-humans as our slaves, why enter they territory and disturb their lives in a way they clearly are not happy with?

    There is a reason that insects can bite and sting: they don't want is to mishandle, threat, hurt or kill them. Bees are working intensively to produce honey - to produce a single jar of honey, foraging honey bees have to travel the equivalent of three times around the world - and there's simply no fair arguments for stealing the outcome of their hard work.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  34. #84
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: honey

    I agree once again!
    I don't see insects any differently from any other living being. Why is it just because they are tiny, people think they don't count.
    They have little hearts too, and feel fear and pain!
    Would humans like it if a larger 'alien' species came here and started swatting us just because we were so tiny to them?
    I spend a lot of my time saving little insects from puddle of water they are drowning in, putting them on tissue until they dry out and then off they fly!
    Sometimes it looks as though it is too late and they are dead but if you wait long enough they start to come round and eventually fly or crawl off!
    I just don't understand why humans put limits on life and judge which being has a right to that life or not, who are we to determine who lives or dies?

  35. #85
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default "Only cowards bullies those who are smaller than themselves"

    You're probably right about their tiny-ness... I'm sure that lots of honey-eaters would adjust their ethical values quickly if bees and mosquitos had the same size/weight as humans!

    Here's an amazing photo taken by Stephen C. Gushue (check out his homepage for more photos) of a bee that doesn't look like it wants or deserves to be disturbed.

    .

    Why do I have a feeling that if this bee was 6 feet long those who normally says that they are against harming dogs and lambs, but have no problems with harming bees and other insects would become very quiet?

    (I found the above and other great macro/insect pictures here.)
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  36. #86
    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: honey

    Wow! Those pics are amazing! I've always liked bees and other insects.
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
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  37. #87
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    I went in the health food shop to look for an alternative to honey for cooking as most pagan recipes such as sabbat cakes etc call for honey and white wine and found an amzing substitute - organic rice syrup. I seriously could not tell the difference in both taste, texture and colour. Amazing!!! And it's totally vegan, made by a company called Biona in Holland.
    I'm well pleased because I always liked honey before I became a vegan
    Silent but deadly :p

  38. #88
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    This reminded me of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy where all the dolphins left.

    Where have all the bees gone?

    If only it was that they were rebelling!

  39. #89
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    In my Conservation Biology class my prof mentioned the destruction of agriculture and how numerous small mammals are killed during harvest of certain crops, like wheat. Yes, honey is an animal product.. but I am not too concerned with the fact it is an animal product.. rather that an animal is likely to be squashed, blasted with smoke, or have all their hard work stolen from them in the process.

    I guess thats where a dietary/ethical question comes in. Ethically, it is possibly wrong to eat an agriculture crop that has the liklihood of causing small mammals to die during harvest. Likely, these could be a litter of small baby mice.. not a happy picture. (a big machine.. grinding up the earth.. ) Thats why I think the focus on "animal product" maybe a bit restricting.

    Vegans don't eat honey because its an animal product. But what about the mice that are killed when eating wheat, which is not an animal product. Not saying that to be a vegan you have to garden all your own food and make sure you dont chop any worms in half while you are digging (hehe..).. but. I dont know, I think that defining what a vegan should and shouldnt eat simply because ANIMAL PRODUCT is the final definiton.. be all, end all. Is a bit restricting and maybe ends the discussion on other factors that could be recognized as inhumane practices.

    Also.. after all of his jarble. I do presently eat things that have honey in them. I tend to eat them based on last resort and it being the healthiest option.. i.e. a bag of chips vs a granola bar. I think I am going to stop doing this though.. after reading this thread. but not b/c I don't think I am a 'vegan' if I don't stop. For example, I have not yet been able to stop eating sugars even though I have read that the filtering process uses an animal product. But someday.. if I was able to acheive this state of not eating inhumane sugar.. I wouldnt have the nerve to say.. well.. since I can do this, and all this hard work I am putting into doing this, if you arent doing it.. Well you arent a vegan! I dont think that is fair. I just dont think we should be so hard on someone because they havn't reached a "perfect" veganism yet... because if that is the case ..i think almost everyone has goals they still yet need to achieve. (i.e. the mice killed in agriculture)..

  40. #90
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    Quote emamaly View Post
    In my Conservation Biology class my prof mentioned the destruction of agriculture and how numerous small mammals are killed during harvest of certain crops, like wheat.
    Hi Emamaly, we have a thread about animals being killed in plant fields here. The 'problem' with any ethically based viewpoint is that doing something crashing with your ethics in one context doesn't generate an alibi or excuse for doing something unethical in another context. Everybody who are concerned with doing their best will stumble upon this or similar issues - eg.: Is it ethical to drive a car - or a plane - to give a lecture about global warming?


    Vegans don't eat honey because its an animal product.
    Not really - it's the other way round actually. Vegans didn't first invent a rigid, silly norm and then decided to follow it because they invented it. Vegans don't eat honey because we don't consider animals, birds, fish etc. to be here to provide us with nutrients - they are living their lives and collecting their food for themselves, not for us.

    Vegans don't avoid animal products because vegans aren't supposed to use animal products, but they avoid animal products because they think/feel it's unethical to exploit and harm others - and the definition of people sharing these viewpoints happen to be 'vegan.

    But what about the mice that are killed when eating wheat, which is not an animal product.
    See the other thread... In short, vegans are avoiding doing anything that can cause harm to others as far as practical and possible. Vegans also are against using products that are not animal products, if animals have been hurt or killed in the process, which is one reason why honey isn't considered vegan: as you say, "animal is likely to be squashed, blasted with smoke, or have all their hard work stolen from them in the process. "

    Not saying that to be a vegan you have to garden all your own food and make sure you dont chop any worms in half while you are digging (hehe..).. but.
    That's where the 'practical and possible' comes in.

    I dont know, I think that defining what a vegan should and shouldnt eat simply because ANIMAL PRODUCT is the final definiton.. be all, end all. Is a bit restricting and maybe ends the discussion on other factors that could be recognized as inhumane practices.
    I believe it's quite common to take these other factors into consideration already...

    The word vegan is sometimes used about food, isolated from everything else. If someone visits a restaurants, and asks if a meal is vegan, he shouldn't get a 'yes' based on someones personal interpretation of the word: there should be no animal products in it - period. No eggs from free range hens, no organic meat, no honey. Looking at ethics alone, no animal would be harmed or killed if they'd put meat from a deer killed in a car crash in the meal, but a vegan meal is always free from animal products, including honey, and IMO it's very important to keep it that way. Nobody can be perfect vegans in a non-vegan world, and we know this - and also know, that this is no excuse for not living as vegan 'as practical and possible'...

    I just dont think we should be so hard on someone because they havn't reached a "perfect" veganism yet...
    I don't think we are hard - if you look around on the site, you'll see that people are doing their best, there is very little policing here. At the same time, we have "Please don't use our forum to try to change veganism to something else than it is" as a part of our rules, an - to use honey as an example - those who invented the word vegan back in the 1940s discussed honey and decided that the term vegan should define a lifestyle that did not include use of honey.

    I see mice killed in the harvest process and using honey as two different, separate topics. It's also actually easy to avoid honey - give it a try... Lots of non-vegans don't eat honey simply because they don't like it!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  41. #91
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    Quote Korn View Post
    Nobody can be perfect vegans in a non-vegan world, and we know this - and also know, that this is no excuse for not living as vegan 'as practical and possible'...
    So true. You'd really have to be quite autonomous to be sure every product that you consumed was animal friendly, through and through.

    Quote Korn View Post
    I don't think we are hard - if you look around on the site, you'll see that people are doing their best, there is very little policing here. At the same time, we have "Please don't use our forum to try to change veganism to something else than it is" as a part of our rules, an - to use honey as an example - those who invented the word vegan back in the 1940s discussed honey and decided that the term vegan should define a lifestyle that did not include use of honey.
    I guess then, according to the definition, I have not been living an entirely vegan lifestyle, but today I did avoid buying the cereals with honey in them.
    But, Ultimately, I only have myself as a judge.. and it is really what I consider right or wrong that I should live by.. and not worry too much about definitions. I will have to give the bees a thought.. I don't think I could stop eating honey based on a definition.. If I do it .. it must be for the bees. hehe.. Anyways,

    Thanks for the link to the thread! Im lookin forward to it

  42. #92
    Yoggy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    I read recently that bees are shipped all around the country in trucks to help with pollinating plants like almond trees and other types of trees. I had no idea that pollinating plants was such a business, and I certainly didn't know that live bees were packed into trucks for long trips! Unfortunately, I don't think that will stop me from buying nuts, because I feel that they are an essential part of my diet. So if I can avoid some of the cruelty done to bees by not buying honey, I definitely will. But it still makes me sad to think about what is done to them so that I can eat almonds .
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

  43. #93
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    A quote about the transport of bees:

    "Once at the post office or shipping depot, nearly anything can happen. Queens can be over heated, chilled, left out in the sun for hours (desiccated), banged around in baggage compartments, and exposed to insecticides. Often, the post office or shipping hub fails to contact the customer when the queens arrive and they may sit in storage for days"

    The dessication of the bees is upsetting. Enough to make me stop eating honey for good.

  44. #94
    Kevster
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    Default Re: Stealing honey

    'Are mobile phones wiping out our bees?
    Scientists claim radiation from handsets are to blame for mysterious 'colony collapse' of bees

    By Geoffrey Lean and Harriet Shawcross
    Published: 15 April 2007

    It seems like the plot of a particularly far-fetched horror film. But some scientists suggest that our love of the mobile phone could cause massive food shortages, as the world's harvests fail. [...]'

    http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...cle2449968.ece

    Recently read a book by Derrick Jensen and he kept bees, said he loved them but in some of his stories he undoubtedly had a very strange way of showing it.

  45. #95
    boatsteem1
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote foxytina_69 View Post
    what are your views on honey?
    I do not eat honey. One reason is that honey producers conflict with bears because bears sometimes raid honey productions. This means they generally don't like bears and would like their numbers to be reduced (ie increased hunting).

    Another reason is that honey bees are usually not native to your country (I live in Sweden and our bees are imported - accoring to a few honey producers I know). Bringing new species to a country is never a good idea (look at minks or Canada goose in Europe for instance - they breed like flies). Although I'm not sure if honey bees can hybridize with local bee species they do probably compete with them and will probably settle in the wild if given the chance. I have a feeling that that may cause local bee species to become endangered or maybe even extinct.

    I'm a strict vegan when it comes to what I eat, but I would actually consider "stealing" some honey from bees in the wild if I was in a survival situation and it wouldn't harm their colony. But honey from bees in captivity - that's a no-go.

  46. #96
    Creative Raven HappyVegan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I've been getting frustrated lately that it seems that the definition of veganism for most places has started including honey. I found out we have a Herb & Farm restaurant nearby on the campus and we decided to go there because I knew that they had tons of vegan options. They ended up being closed for the summer since they're on the campus but when we got home I looked up their menu online for future reference and was disappointed to see that the miso honey salad dressing had the vegan symbol next to it.

    Then, yesterday, we went to a locally owned restaurant that was supposed to have lots of vegan food. When we got to the counter I asked if the pizza crust was vegan and the lady said that it was, then as an afterthought said, "now it does have honey in it". So then I asked about the sandwich bread, it also had honey. So this restaurant that advertises as having so many vegan options ended up only having two. Steamed veggies over rice (exciting!!) and a gazpacho soup (which they don't even have every day).

    And another local restaurant has a sorbet with honey in it on their special all vegan menu. It's bad when you can't even safely order vegan food from a specialty vegan menu! And none of the places seem to care when I say that honey isn't vegan. I guess they just think that I'm overly extreme *grrr*

    Sorry about the rant, I just needed to vent a bit. I'm back to being happyvegan again now .

  47. #97
    Eager Beaver philfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    another prime example of the honey thing was exhibited today on ITV1's daily cooks show. kept going on and on over the first recipie being vegan, over and over again vegan recipe, all chuffed that they cooked a vegan dish. then they ruin it with honey! they said vegan so many times im sure people watching must think that vegans eat honey gah
    i've sent a complaint to the website:
    http://cooks.itv.com/default.aspx?page=ContactUs

    the recipe is here:
    http://cooks.itv.com/default.aspx?pa...nsion&scid=276
    of course the honey can be ommited or replaced, but it was the wrong message been given across i oppose to.
    (on a side note they labelled this recipe as vegetarian:
    http://cooks.itv.com/default.aspx?pa...nsion&scid=161
    sigh)
    Last edited by philfox; Aug 3rd, 2007 at 03:28 PM. Reason: to add recipe
    Vegan Forum: keeping me sane in the world of the ignorant.

  48. #98
    boatsteem1
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote HappyVegan View Post
    What the hell?!? Did the person labeling it maybe not know what chorizo was? Thought it was some kind of exotic vegetable maybe .

    Fortunately I know what chorizo is. But I have, on more than one occation, mixed up sardines with sardelles when buying pasta sauce :/

    Edit: No, wait! That's not what I mixed up, but it's a vegetable with a similar name to those two. Ah! I can never separate between them!

  49. #99
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote philfox View Post
    another prime example of the honey thing was exhibited today on ITV1's daily cooks show. kept going on and on over the first recipie being vegan, over and over again vegan recipe, all chuffed that they cooked a vegan dish. then they ruin it with honey! they said vegan so many times im sure people watching must think that vegans eat honey gah
    this sounds like a repeat of what happened with the vegan on Ready Steady Cook. did they ever apologise for that?
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  50. #100
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    ^ No such luck, no doubt this will be the same. I checked the forums on their website where someone mentioned it wasn't vegan but of course someone turned it into an argument about why it should be considered vegan.

    Here - http://community.itv.com/showthread.php?t=34714
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

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