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Vegans don't use honey - Page 5
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Thread: Vegans don't use honey

  1. #201
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I read about one person who thought that as humans eat crops due to bee's pollination then it is difficult to get any food without bees so you might as well have other bee products as well.

    I've read that even some beekeepers think one of the problems that's causing bee colonies to die off is the practice of pinching their honey and substituting sugar water for it.

    http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2007/nov/...l-trouble-for/

    So if people carry on eating honey there may not be any bees left to pollinate crops.

  2. #202
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    thanks for the link harpy. it makes sense, honey is the correct food for bees, and i'm sure it differs in nutrients from sugar water.

    from that website: "an unknown illness caused more than half of the nation's kept bees to flee their hives and disappear." maybe it's not an illness - maybe they've had enough and decided to leave
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  3. #203
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    There's quite a lot about "colony collapse disorder" on the web, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

    It seems likely that there is more than one cause but weakening the bees by taking away their proper food seems as if it could well be a contributory factor. Even from a human-centric point of view eating honey doesn't make any sense - we don't need honey but we do need pollination. (Sorry, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!)

  4. #204
    Zero
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote harpy View Post
    The Vegan Sociey is unambivalent about honey now but that doesn't necessarily mean it always was.

    This interview with Donald Watson http://www.vegparadise.com/24carrot610.html says about the formation of the Vegan Society "We also debated for a long time about the case of honey but again decided against it." He doesn't say how long though...
    They considered it carefully and they came to the right conclusion, that's a good thing.
    We should judge them on what the message they represent now, not an an archaic one. I think those who must think they are adhering to some "old definition" of veganism are kidding themselves

  5. #205

    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Gorilla View Post
    i never heard of the Vegan Society being ambiguous about honey. that sounds very odd to me.
    I've been a member of the Vegan Society (on and off) since 1980 and I still have very old copies of The Vegan stashed away somewhere with the old definition in it. The mag used to be A5 sized with little drawn illustrations back in the day, not A4 and glossy like it is now. I did find an oldish mag from 1994 and that includes honey in the definition, so the 'individual conscience' thing goes back some way. I can assure everyone that it was the case years ago, I'm not making it up or getting confused. I expect someone proposed a motion at an AGM to change the definition and it was agreed. As I say, I haven't been a member constantly and remember noticing that the definition had changed when I rejoined once.
    Last edited by green woman; Oct 28th, 2008 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Wrong year! 1980, not 1979.

  6. #206
    Pearl
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    Default Re: Honey

    I bought some organic golden syrup a while back and its cr*p as golden syrup, BUT if you liked the taste of honey and wanted to have it on toast, I reckon its a good substitute. Im not saying its healthy......but its nice in porridge

  7. #207
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote green woman View Post
    I can assure everyone that it was the case years ago, I'm not making it up or getting confused.
    i didn't think you were making it up, i was just surprised and thought it sounded odd. you obviously know better than i do as you've been a member since the year i was born - not that i'm trying to make you feel old of course
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  8. #208

    Default Re: Honey

    I'll get me zimmer frame

  9. #209
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Honey

    why would anyone want to eat Honey?. It's revolting! (no offence to Bees or anything).

  10. #210
    cherished emmapresley's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Honey

    i suppose because its sweet..but noone here comitted to being vegan and posting on a vegan forum after acknowledging that they're vegan ought to be eating honey for 'health reasons'..or any other reasons without then acknowledging that they're not vegan. imo.
    am sure there are stacks of other vegan foods that are healthy.
    so...you know..
    ahronli sed ah dunit so thid tek thuh cheyus graytuh offa mi nihbles

  11. #211
    cobweb
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    Quote emmapresley View Post
    i suppose because its sweet..but noone here comitted to being vegan and posting on a vegan forum after acknowledging that they're vegan ought to be eating honey for 'health reasons'..or any other reasons without then acknowledging that they're not vegan. imo.
    am sure there are stacks of other vegan foods that are healthy.
    so...you know..

    go emmap, go emmap, go!

  12. #212

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    Default Re: Honey

    Don't call me honey!!!

  13. #213
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Honey

    honey!

  14. #214

    Default Re: Honey

    In the hive the bees use their "honey stomachs" to ingest and regurgitate the nectar a number of times until it is partially digested.
    The bees work together as a group with the regurgitation and digestion until the product reaches a desired quality.
    It is then stored in the honeycomb.


    Communal bee puke, don't do it people.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  15. #215

    Default Re: Honey

    If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.

  16. #216

    Default Re: Honey

    Quote green woman View Post
    If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.
    Certainly more than it would attract.
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  17. #217
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote green woman View Post
    If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.
    Actually theres a brand of honey called bee puke or something tio that effect. I think someone on the forum linked to it at some point.

  18. #218
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    There was Bee Barf Honey apparently:

    http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12195

    Not sure how well it's selling.

  19. #219
    Zero
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote harpy View Post
    There was Bee Barf Honey apparently:

    http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12195

    Not sure how well it's selling.
    Oh see, look how natural it is to consume honey, you just need a special container to use as a "hive", some special trays and a special suit so you don't get stung to death by the little people who's food you are stealing! - oh wait, not so natural after all I guess .


  20. #220
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Honey

    ^ is that one of the little people in the picture Zero?.
    He's running off with his barf, away from the nasty man!

    sorry, in all seriousness honey really revolts me, always has done

  21. #221
    Can't cook. Sarah_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I had a huge conversation about honey and why I won't eat it with my bf's mom and she seemed quite incredulous the whole time, and ended the conversation with "you know, when you eat locally made honey, you get immunity to certain diseases something something with the bee honey something something blah blah. It's very healthy!"
    I just said "I'm sure it is" and changed the topic. it's like when she told her son eating meat was healthy (especially LOCALLY FARMED MEAT) because they eat the hay and oats and stuff that will give you immunity to disease. I wanted to laugh and cry and throw something all at the same time.




    PS, I thought honey tasted like stale ass before I was vegan anyway.
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  22. #222
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    'stale ass', haha.

    i get hayfever and loads of people have told me that local honey cures it because the bees get the pollen from the local plants, and eating their honey makes you immune. how exactly is that supposed to work?!
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  23. #223
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    Default Re: Honey

    Its supposed to keep a steady level of allergens in your body. That way your immune system doesn't whig out when allergy season comes along, it just thinks that it is normal.

    The only reason I can fathom why *someone* would continue eating honey is if they found it hard to avoid in all the lovely non-dairy items. No big jar of honey on the counter or anything,
    I might see that someone *could* find an exception for honey in "As far as possible and practical."

    That said, if you wanted some honey would you go outside and take it, killing a few bees in the process? No?
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  24. #224
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Sarah_ View Post
    Well what else could I do with it?
    Like Roxy said, you could give it away, my question was genuine though, I was wondering if you rated honey as a 'more ok' animal product to eat than others like milk, eggs, meat etc.
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  25. #225
    Pearl
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Sarah_ View Post
    Well what else could I do with it?
    Its annoying when that happens isnt it Sarah! I have read things in a hurry only to go home and find theyve got milk or something in them. Dont worry!


  26. #226
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Haniska View Post
    Its supposed to keep a steady level of allergens in your body. That way your immune system doesn't whig out when allergy season comes along, it just thinks that it is normal.

    ?
    Yeh, there does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence about that honey helps alleviate the symptoms of hayfever and asthma due to desensitising the body to the pollen.
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  27. #227
    Pearl
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote sandra View Post
    Honey is a product from another living being and therefore NOT vegan!

    I think bumble bees are cute.........my husband once gently stroked a bumble bee as it sat on a window sill in the sun. I would love to stroke a bumble bee!
    I meant dont worry because we all make mistakes. I know honey isnt vegan.

  28. #228
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Sorry Pearl, I wasn't referring to your post............I was just adding my thoughts to the discussion about honey being vegan or not.

    (I should have made myself more clear)
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  29. #229
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    Default Re: Honey

    Did you know that bumble bees (I love them too!) live in holes in the ground? I had no idea. It is also possible to prove that a bumble bee can't fly .... *is geeky*


    P.S. So I've heard, I can't actually prove it myself *is not that geeky*
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary and those that don't.

  30. #230
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Bunny View Post
    Did you know that bumble bees (I love them too!) live in holes in the ground? I had no idea. It is also possible to prove that a bumble bee can't fly .... *is geeky*


    P.S. So I've heard, I can't actually prove it myself *is not that geeky*
    Seein as they are my favourite insect i have to dispell that myth at every opportunity, lol!!!
    And i won't be geeky, i'll use Wiki!

    It is believed that the calculations which purported to show that bumblebees cannot fly are based upon a simplified linear treatment of oscillating aerofoils. The method assumes small amplitude oscillations without flow separation. This ignores the effect of dynamic stall, an airflow separation inducing a large vortex above the wing, which briefly produces several times the lift of the aerofoil in regular flight. More sophisticated aerodynamic analysis shows that the bumblebee can fly because its wings encounter dynamic stall in every oscillation cycle!!!!

    As simple as that!!!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  31. #231

    Default Re: Honey

    Quote gogs67 View Post
    Seein as they are my favourite insect i have to dispell that myth at every opportunity, lol!!!
    And i won't be geeky, i'll use Wiki!




    As simple as that!!!
    As Stewart Lee's taxi driver
    [youtube]4n-UGQcG3Jw[/youtube]
    said "Well you can prove anything with facts, can't you."
    ..but what would they do with all the cows?..

  32. #232
    Can't cook. Sarah_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Risker View Post
    Like Roxy said, you could give it away, my question was genuine though, I was wondering if you rated honey as a 'more ok' animal product to eat than others like milk, eggs, meat etc.
    I don't, I think it's the same. I just didn't know what else I could've done with it at the time, and I've got no friends here so it'd look a little odd coming to work and trying to give someone an opened bag of bread.
    Either this wallpaper goes, or I do.

  33. #233
    Tottering Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Darn facts! They get me every time!!!
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary and those that don't.

  34. #234
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I've seen bumblebees flying

    I never thought they couldn't................why do people think they can't fly?
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  35. #235
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    Default Re: Honey

    It's not that people think that bumblebees can't fly, Sandra, it's that for years scientists were at a loss as to how they were able to.

  36. #236
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Oh I see Enchantress...............thank you xx

    (I really should go back to being brunette I'm having far too many 'blonde' moments these days!)
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  37. #237
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Sarah_ View Post
    it'd look a little odd coming to work and trying to give someone an opened bag of bread.
    Another time you could try leaving it in the work kitchen (or equivalent), and people will probably steal it. I get my other half to do that if someone gives us something that isn't vegan, and apparently it works like a charm

  38. #238
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote Sarah_ View Post
    I don't, I think it's the same.
    You'd eat bread if you bought it by accident and found out it had meat in it?
    "I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth

  39. #239
    Tottering Bunny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I think that it is different how people view different aspects of veganism. *is prepared for onslaught and may run off and never defend the point*

    For example, people would be unlikely to drive through a field of lambs knowing they might kill some, but driving kills thousands of insects and yet people don't stop. Personally, I wouldn't have eaten the bread, but that is more due to stubborness than anything else (I couldn't have lived with the "told you so" ish ness of my partner ). I don't think of bees in the same way as I think of, say, a kitten. Not that I think they are not worthy, I just find it harder to love bees. I wouldn't be mean on purpose, but I probably wouldn't feel as guilty as if I accidentally ate something like egg or ham.

    (please don't shout at me)
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary and those that don't.

  40. #240
    cobweb
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    Default Re: Honey

    i often think about this, is it just the size of insects or is it the fact that we cannot communicate with them as we can with other animals? (e.g through physical interraction such as stroking, or facial expressions, etc).

    i wouldn't have eaten the bread, either but i wouldn't have seen it as comparable to having meat in it, on a kind of horror scale. I can't explain why though .

    i'm afraid i wouldn't worry about 'wasting' some bread with honey in it, or 'wasting' a jug of milk or whatever, i wouldn't want me or anyone else to eat these non-food items and the best place for them is the bin.

  41. #241
    Rice Dream Digital Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    I hate the idea that some people think honey is vegan - it's one of those things I have to check the label for even after being told it is vegan by someone else.

    Personally I would not be able to eat anything with honey in it if I accidentally bought an item with it in - to me (like Risker said) it would be like eating something with meat or dairy in. It may be wasting food but if I did eat it the whole time I would be thinking of the animals that suffered in making it.
    The day breaks and everything is new.

  42. #242
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Just on the topic of honey/bee products.....

    I saw a listing of vegan Halloween candy today that included Jelly Belly Jellybeans. In Canada, I know they have beeswax in them. Is it different in other countries? Does anyone know?

  43. #243
    pathologist
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    Default Re: Honey

    I agree with harpy that it is simple to get rid of food - just leave it lying around at work - if necessary with "Eat me" written on it and it will just disappear. I've just had a box of chocolates left in my room very kindly by one of our Juniors who is leaving and I know that I will just put it out in the office and it will just go like magic! last week I left the remnants of a half-eaten chocolate gateau that was served at a seminar we were holding and in 24 hours just crumbs were left!

  44. #244
    Mahk
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    Quote Roxy View Post
    Just on the topic of honey/bee products.....

    I saw a listing of vegan Halloween candy today that included Jelly Belly Jellybeans. In Canada, I know they have beeswax in them. Is it different in other countries? Does anyone know?
    Roxy, best as I can tell, all Jelly Belly brand jellybeans, made in all countries, contain beeswax (I believe as part of their coating) and are therefor not vegan. Because they lack gelatin, which is found in some other brands and are Kosher, some retailers have mistakenly promoted them as "vegan" too, although they are wrong.

  45. #245
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    Quote harpy View Post
    Yes, would be really interested to know what it's like although I noticed they said it tastes like honey or sugar so they're hedging their bets there!
    just going to back to a previous post about the honey substitute i mentioned a while back. i finally got round to trying some this morning on a toasted crumpet.

    it's very sweet, and tastes more like extremely concentrated apple juice than anything - but it does have a bit of a tang that is reminiscent of honey somehow. not bad, i thought.
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  46. #246
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    That's the veganstore stuff is it, Gorilla? Thanks for the report. It sounds OK; I don't think I'll be rushing to buy any as I don't like very sweet things, but it should be good for anyone that's been missing honey.

  47. #247
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Honey

    yes, that's the stuff Veganstore sell. i think i'll use it up on crumpets and toast when i fancy something sweet, and it's not too high in calories so it hopefully won't be bringing on the diabetes just yet
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  48. #248
    Kimberlily1983
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    Default Re: Vegans don't use honey

    I'm sure someone else has said it somewhere, but agave nectar is soooo heavenly! Honey-lovers, go out and buy this ASAP! It tastes almost the same as honey, maybe a bit richer... Slightly less viscous? Anyway, it's delicious!

  49. #249
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    Default Re: Vegans don't use honey

    Is agave expensive? I've been meaning to hunt it down and give it a try if I can afford it.
    Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but is there anything that can replace honey in lemon honey and ginger drinks? I'm getting a cold and lemon honey and ginger drinks used to be my favourite for that. Or any other completely different hot drink remedies would also be gratefully received

  50. #250
    Kimberlily1983
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    Default Re: Vegans don't use honey

    Quote Bearshark View Post
    Is agave expensive? I've been meaning to hunt it down and give it a try if I can afford it.
    Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but is there anything that can replace honey in lemon honey and ginger drinks? I'm getting a cold and lemon honey and ginger drinks used to be my favourite for that. Or any other completely different hot drink remedies would also be gratefully received
    Agave is a little expensive, yes. We pay $8 for just under 500 mL. I'm not sure how that compares to honey... The clerk at the health food store we go to told us we could buy huge jugs of it, for I think $20 or $30, so if you go through a lot, I'd recommend asking for it at your health food store. We don't go through much of it ourselves...

    I think you can use agave any way you'd use honey. They're very similar, taste-wise and nutritionally speaking.

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