Vegans don't use honey

[harpy]

I read about one person who thought that as humans eat crops due to bee's pollination then it is difficult to get any food without bees so you might as well have other bee products as well.

I've read that even some beekeepers think one of the problems that's causing bee colonies to die off is the practice of pinching their honey and substituting sugar water for it.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2007/nov/...l-trouble-for/

So if people carry on eating honey there may not be any bees left to pollinate crops.

[Gorilla]

thanks for the link harpy. it makes sense, honey is the correct food for bees, and i'm sure it differs in nutrients from sugar water.

from that website: "an unknown illness caused more than half of the nation's kept bees to flee their hives and disappear." maybe it's not an illness - maybe they've had enough and decided to leave

[harpy]

There's quite a lot about "colony collapse disorder" on the web, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

It seems likely that there is more than one cause but weakening the bees by taking away their proper food seems as if it could well be a contributory factor. Even from a human-centric point of view eating honey doesn't make any sense - we don't need honey but we do need pollination. (Sorry, I know I'm preaching to the converted here!)

[Zero]

The Vegan Sociey is unambivalent about honey now but that doesn't necessarily mean it always was.

This interview with Donald Watson http://www.vegparadise.com/24carrot610.html says about the formation of the Vegan Society "We also debated for a long time about the case of honey but again decided against it." He doesn't say how long though...

They considered it carefully and they came to the right conclusion, that's a good thing.
We should judge them on what the message they represent now, not an an archaic one. I think those who must think they are adhering to some "old definition" of veganism are kidding themselves

[green woman]

i never heard of the Vegan Society being ambiguous about honey. that sounds very odd to me.

I've been a member of the Vegan Society (on and off) since 1980 and I still have very old copies of The Vegan stashed away somewhere with the old definition in it. The mag used to be A5 sized with little drawn illustrations back in the day, not A4 and glossy like it is now. I did find an oldish mag from 1994 and that includes honey in the definition, so the 'individual conscience' thing goes back some way. I can assure everyone that it was the case years ago, I'm not making it up or getting confused. I expect someone proposed a motion at an AGM to change the definition and it was agreed. As I say, I haven't been a member constantly and remember noticing that the definition had changed when I rejoined once.

[Pearl]

I bought some organic golden syrup a while back and its cr*p as golden syrup, BUT if you liked the taste of honey and wanted to have it on toast, I reckon its a good substitute. Im not saying its healthy......but its nice in porridge

[Gorilla]

I can assure everyone that it was the case years ago, I'm not making it up or getting confused.

i didn't think you were making it up, i was just surprised and thought it sounded odd. you obviously know better than i do as you've been a member since the year i was born - not that i'm trying to make you feel old of course

[green woman]

I'll get me zimmer frame

[cobweb]

why would anyone want to eat Honey?. It's revolting! (no offence to Bees or anything).

[emmapresley]

i suppose because its sweet..but noone here comitted to being vegan and posting on a vegan forum after acknowledging that they're vegan ought to be eating honey for 'health reasons'..or any other reasons without then acknowledging that they're not vegan. imo.
am sure there are stacks of other vegan foods that are healthy.
so...you know..

[cobweb]

i suppose because its sweet..but noone here comitted to being vegan and posting on a vegan forum after acknowledging that they're vegan ought to be eating honey for 'health reasons'..or any other reasons without then acknowledging that they're not vegan. imo.
am sure there are stacks of other vegan foods that are healthy.
so...you know..

go emmap, go emmap, go!

[fiamma]

Don't call me honey!!!

[cobweb]

honey!

[horselesspaul]

In the hive the bees use their "honey stomachs" to ingest and regurgitate the nectar a number of times until it is partially digested.
The bees work together as a group with the regurgitation and digestion until the product reaches a desired quality.
It is then stored in the honeycomb.

Communal bee puke, don't do it people.

[green woman]

If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.

[horselesspaul]

If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.

Certainly more than it would attract.

[snivelingchild]

If that was printed on jars of honey it might put more than a few people off.

Actually theres a brand of honey called bee puke or something tio that effect. I think someone on the forum linked to it at some point.

[harpy]

There was Bee Barf Honey apparently:

http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12195

Not sure how well it's selling.

[Zero]

There was Bee Barf Honey apparently:

http://www.localharvest.org/farms/M12195

Not sure how well it's selling.

Oh see, look how natural it is to consume honey, you just need a special container to use as a "hive", some special trays and a special suit so you don't get stung to death by the little people who's food you are stealing! - oh wait, not so natural after all I guess .

[cobweb]

^ is that one of the little people in the picture Zero?.
He's running off with his barf, away from the nasty man!

sorry, in all seriousness honey really revolts me, always has done

[Sarah_]

I had a huge conversation about honey and why I won't eat it with my bf's mom and she seemed quite incredulous the whole time, and ended the conversation with "you know, when you eat locally made honey, you get immunity to certain diseases something something with the bee honey something something blah blah. It's very healthy!"
I just said "I'm sure it is" and changed the topic. it's like when she told her son eating meat was healthy (especially LOCALLY FARMED MEAT) because they eat the hay and oats and stuff that will give you immunity to disease. I wanted to laugh and cry and throw something all at the same time.




PS, I thought honey tasted like stale ass before I was vegan anyway.

[Gorilla]

'stale ass', haha.

i get hayfever and loads of people have told me that local honey cures it because the bees get the pollen from the local plants, and eating their honey makes you immune. how exactly is that supposed to work?!

[Haniska]

Its supposed to keep a steady level of allergens in your body. That way your immune system doesn't whig out when allergy season comes along, it just thinks that it is normal.

The only reason I can fathom why *someone* would continue eating honey is if they found it hard to avoid in all the lovely non-dairy items. No big jar of honey on the counter or anything,
I might see that someone *could* find an exception for honey in "As far as possible and practical."

That said, if you wanted some honey would you go outside and take it, killing a few bees in the process? No?

[Risker]

Well what else could I do with it?

Like Roxy said, you could give it away, my question was genuine though, I was wondering if you rated honey as a 'more ok' animal product to eat than others like milk, eggs, meat etc.

[Pearl]

Well what else could I do with it?

Its annoying when that happens isnt it Sarah! I have read things in a hurry only to go home and find theyve got milk or something in them. Dont worry!

[gogs67]

Its supposed to keep a steady level of allergens in your body. That way your immune system doesn't whig out when allergy season comes along, it just thinks that it is normal.

?

Yeh, there does seem to be a lot of anecdotal evidence about that honey helps alleviate the symptoms of hayfever and asthma due to desensitising the body to the pollen.

[Pearl]

Honey is a product from another living being and therefore NOT vegan!

I think bumble bees are cute.........my husband once gently stroked a bumble bee as it sat on a window sill in the sun. I would love to stroke a bumble bee!

I meant dont worry because we all make mistakes. I know honey isnt vegan.

[sandra]

Sorry Pearl, I wasn't referring to your post............I was just adding my thoughts to the discussion about honey being vegan or not.

(I should have made myself more clear)

[Bunny]

Did you know that bumble bees (I love them too!) live in holes in the ground? I had no idea. It is also possible to prove that a bumble bee can't fly .... *is geeky*


P.S. So I've heard, I can't actually prove it myself *is not that geeky*

[gogs67]

Did you know that bumble bees (I love them too!) live in holes in the ground? I had no idea. It is also possible to prove that a bumble bee can't fly .... *is geeky*


P.S. So I've heard, I can't actually prove it myself *is not that geeky*

Seein as they are my favourite insect i have to dispell that myth at every opportunity, lol!!!
And i won't be geeky, i'll use Wiki!

It is believed that the calculations which purported to show that bumblebees cannot fly are based upon a simplified linear treatment of oscillating aerofoils. The method assumes small amplitude oscillations without flow separation. This ignores the effect of dynamic stall, an airflow separation inducing a large vortex above the wing, which briefly produces several times the lift of the aerofoil in regular flight. More sophisticated aerodynamic analysis shows that the bumblebee can fly because its wings encounter dynamic stall in every oscillation cycle!!!!

As simple as that!!!

[horselesspaul]

Seein as they are my favourite insect i have to dispell that myth at every opportunity, lol!!!
And i won't be geeky, i'll use Wiki!




As simple as that!!!

As Stewart Lee's taxi driver
[youtube]4n-UGQcG3Jw[/youtube]
said "Well you can prove anything with facts, can't you."

[Sarah_]

Like Roxy said, you could give it away, my question was genuine though, I was wondering if you rated honey as a 'more ok' animal product to eat than others like milk, eggs, meat etc.

I don't, I think it's the same. I just didn't know what else I could've done with it at the time, and I've got no friends here so it'd look a little odd coming to work and trying to give someone an opened bag of bread.

[Bunny]

Darn facts! They get me every time!!!

[sandra]

I've seen bumblebees flying

I never thought they couldn't................why do people think they can't fly?

[Enchantress]

It's not that people think that bumblebees can't fly, Sandra, it's that for years scientists were at a loss as to how they were able to.

[sandra]

Oh I see Enchantress...............thank you xx

(I really should go back to being brunette I'm having far too many 'blonde' moments these days!)

[harpy]

it'd look a little odd coming to work and trying to give someone an opened bag of bread.

Another time you could try leaving it in the work kitchen (or equivalent), and people will probably steal it. I get my other half to do that if someone gives us something that isn't vegan, and apparently it works like a charm

[Risker]

I don't, I think it's the same.

You'd eat bread if you bought it by accident and found out it had meat in it?

[Bunny]

I think that it is different how people view different aspects of veganism. *is prepared for onslaught and may run off and never defend the point*

For example, people would be unlikely to drive through a field of lambs knowing they might kill some, but driving kills thousands of insects and yet people don't stop. Personally, I wouldn't have eaten the bread, but that is more due to stubborness than anything else (I couldn't have lived with the "told you so" ish ness of my partner ). I don't think of bees in the same way as I think of, say, a kitten. Not that I think they are not worthy, I just find it harder to love bees. I wouldn't be mean on purpose, but I probably wouldn't feel as guilty as if I accidentally ate something like egg or ham.

(please don't shout at me)

[cobweb]

i often think about this, is it just the size of insects or is it the fact that we cannot communicate with them as we can with other animals? (e.g through physical interraction such as stroking, or facial expressions, etc).

i wouldn't have eaten the bread, either but i wouldn't have seen it as comparable to having meat in it, on a kind of horror scale. I can't explain why though .

i'm afraid i wouldn't worry about 'wasting' some bread with honey in it, or 'wasting' a jug of milk or whatever, i wouldn't want me or anyone else to eat these non-food items and the best place for them is the bin.

[Digital Ghost]

I hate the idea that some people think honey is vegan - it's one of those things I have to check the label for even after being told it is vegan by someone else.

Personally I would not be able to eat anything with honey in it if I accidentally bought an item with it in - to me (like Risker said) it would be like eating something with meat or dairy in. It may be wasting food but if I did eat it the whole time I would be thinking of the animals that suffered in making it.

[Roxy]

Just on the topic of honey/bee products.....

I saw a listing of vegan Halloween candy today that included Jelly Belly Jellybeans. In Canada, I know they have beeswax in them. Is it different in other countries? Does anyone know?

[mjnewbould]

I agree with harpy that it is simple to get rid of food - just leave it lying around at work - if necessary with "Eat me" written on it and it will just disappear. I've just had a box of chocolates left in my room very kindly by one of our Juniors who is leaving and I know that I will just put it out in the office and it will just go like magic! last week I left the remnants of a half-eaten chocolate gateau that was served at a seminar we were holding and in 24 hours just crumbs were left!

[Mahk]

Just on the topic of honey/bee products.....

I saw a listing of vegan Halloween candy today that included Jelly Belly Jellybeans. In Canada, I know they have beeswax in them. Is it different in other countries? Does anyone know?

Roxy, best as I can tell, all Jelly Belly brand jellybeans, made in all countries, contain beeswax (I believe as part of their coating) and are therefor not vegan. Because they lack gelatin, which is found in some other brands and are Kosher, some retailers have mistakenly promoted them as "vegan" too, although they are wrong.

[Gorilla]

Yes, would be really interested to know what it's like although I noticed they said it tastes like honey or sugar so they're hedging their bets there!

just going to back to a previous post about the honey substitute i mentioned a while back. i finally got round to trying some this morning on a toasted crumpet.

it's very sweet, and tastes more like extremely concentrated apple juice than anything - but it does have a bit of a tang that is reminiscent of honey somehow. not bad, i thought.

[harpy]

That's the veganstore stuff is it, Gorilla? Thanks for the report. It sounds OK; I don't think I'll be rushing to buy any as I don't like very sweet things, but it should be good for anyone that's been missing honey.

[Gorilla]

yes, that's the stuff Veganstore sell. i think i'll use it up on crumpets and toast when i fancy something sweet, and it's not too high in calories so it hopefully won't be bringing on the diabetes just yet

[Kimberlily1983]

I'm sure someone else has said it somewhere, but agave nectar is soooo heavenly! Honey-lovers, go out and buy this ASAP! It tastes almost the same as honey, maybe a bit richer... Slightly less viscous? Anyway, it's delicious!

[Bearshark]

Is agave expensive? I've been meaning to hunt it down and give it a try if I can afford it.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but is there anything that can replace honey in lemon honey and ginger drinks? I'm getting a cold and lemon honey and ginger drinks used to be my favourite for that. Or any other completely different hot drink remedies would also be gratefully received

[Kimberlily1983]

Is agave expensive? I've been meaning to hunt it down and give it a try if I can afford it.
Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but is there anything that can replace honey in lemon honey and ginger drinks? I'm getting a cold and lemon honey and ginger drinks used to be my favourite for that. Or any other completely different hot drink remedies would also be gratefully received

Agave is a little expensive, yes. We pay $8 for just under 500 mL. I'm not sure how that compares to honey... The clerk at the health food store we go to told us we could buy huge jugs of it, for I think $20 or $30, so if you go through a lot, I'd recommend asking for it at your health food store. We don't go through much of it ourselves...

I think you can use agave any way you'd use honey. They're very similar, taste-wise and nutritionally speaking.