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Thread: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism?)

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    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism?)

    First of all, I do not want to help the meat industry in any ways to increase their sales. However, I'm convinced that they work very hard to influence people to use more animal products, and not to trust info from vegan or vegetarian sources -in hidden ways.

    The leaders of the tobacco industry tried to make us believe that they didn't consider nicotine addictive. The sugar industry is working hard against WHO/UN an others to fight the increasing negativity against sugar.

    The meat industry is a special case. It's more brutal. Their profits come from killing animals, not selling plants (as the sugar and tobacco indutry does). Yet, we see rather few direct attempts from the meat industry to fight the veggie movement. They might understand that it wouldn't help much if they would, as represents for the killing industry, recommend people to eat more meat instead of increasing their intake of plants, as most other health experts recommend.

    If they can't indluence, in the open, they must do it indirectly.

    If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in the long run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

    1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

    2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.

    If the factory farmers understand that the way they treat animals will get more and more negative attention, even from the meat eating Average Joe, they just have to improve anyway. If you can't fight them, why not join them?

    If the meat industry will manage to change the focus in the vegan movement away from respect for life and respect for animals, towards certain ways of treating/killing animals, along with factory farm reforms, they would be able to reduce the growth of the veggie movement a lot.

    If they, in 10-15 years from now could tell you anout all improvements factory farming has gone through, and at the same time managed to convert the veggie movement into a followers of some twisted kind of ethics which accepts killing but not harming, they'd still make a lot of money.
    That's a very interesting point, and i have to say i pretty much agree with you there.

    i've heard of people who went veggie in protest at the way animals are treated on factory farms, but became convinced that organic meat came from more humanely treated animals, so decided to eat only organic meat. they still seem to believe that it's ok to kill for food, and that it's natural (see Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall in the UK - never been a veggie but has this to say on the subject: Should I Become A Meat-Free Man? )

    i know one guy who won't eat meat because of factory farmed conditions, but eats fish and dairy because that's apparently not cruel. i can't say i understand how someone can think killing is acceptable, but suffering during the animal's life is not.

    i think the meat industry are trying all sorts of ways to promote its products - just look at the Atkins Diet. no matter how many nutritionists say it's really unhealthy, people will do it because they want to be thin without too much effort, and if skinny celebrities promote it many people will be brainwashed into thinking it'll work.
    Last edited by Korn; Mar 22nd, 2006 at 11:56 PM. Reason: making my link work!

  2. #2
    Kevster
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    That sounds pretty reasonable, reform is what the industry will probably get (or allow themselves to get) roped into. However, reform and improving welfare standards isn't particularly cheap. My lib dem MP reckons that meat should be far more expensive than it is at present to accommodate improvements in animal welfare, however, would people buy so much meat if it were more expensive?

    Reforming is a buzz word around at the moment, everyone is trying to reform orgainsations that are inherently exploitative, IMF, WB, WTO, and policies...cutting third world debt, regulating multi nationals. But the problems still exist, scrap the lot and replace them with organisations that will eradicate debts from highly indebted countries, scrap the organisations that are supposed to reduce poverty (WB) but actually often do the opposite. Scrap the meat industry completely and everyone go vegan!!!!!

    Pretty radical and revolutionary in a sense,

    Kev

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    i know one guy who won't eat meat because of factory farmed conditions, but eats fish and dairy because that's apparently not cruel. i can't say i understand how someone can think killing is acceptable, but suffering during the animal's life is not.
    i used to eat sushi (no other meat/dairy BUT i never called myself a vegetarian!)--i told myself that fish was good for me but realized that killing is unacceptable (regardless if i think the animal is cute/cuddley). i finally saw the error in my ways, so hopefully your friend will too!

    with the atkins diet, zone diet, fat flush plan and other high protien diets, i don't think the meat industry even needs to worry about increasing their sales

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    I eve's Avatar
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    Question

    If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in th elong run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

    1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

    2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.
    First, why would you want to save the meat industry? Second, influence the veg*n movement not to be concerned about killing? Why? Is killing ok by you? Thirdly, cooperate with factory farm industry to promote humane slaughtering? How can slaughter ever be humane?
    Peter, are you serious or are you simply trying your best to rile vegans?
    Eve

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    I figure the meat industy has already done a fair deal. I mean most of the poeple I talk to still don't imagine I can get the proper nutrition from a vegan diet. Meat industries agenda consists of propiganda, lies, murder. All the wonderful thgins that seem to make the world go round these days, it fits in quite well. I can't believe i hear of all these famous people that are veggie or vegan, I mean if they would stand up and say "this is why I am vegan, and this is why my diet works better than the meat diet" I think people would listen.
    "Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)

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    I agree, and can sympathize with you FirstBus. I too still have people telling me it's not possible to get enough protein on a vegetarian diet, much less a vegan diet I just tell them that personally it works for me, and I feel better since I've stopped eating meat, but some still persists that I'm only getting the minimum amount of nutrition just to stay alive! So ridiculous. If I was eating just enough to stay alive I wouldn't be walking, working, snowboarding, etc. So yeah, a lot of people believe the propaganda.

    Anyways, I ran across this yesterday: National Cattlemen's Beef Association pays
    for Anti-Vegan "Study"


    Oh yeah, this reminds me
    So why, then would a USDA representative make such a ridiculous claim? Could the many and strong ties between the USDA and the meat industry be one reason?
    Remember those food pyramids we were shown all throughout elementary school? I do. As a child I always wanted to be vegetarian/vegan and after a certain age, you know...once your old enough to start deciding what you eat, where are the food pyramids then? By that time they've already hooked our attention at such an early age that most of us have no problem eating meat. I think, looking back, most of the propaganda I recieved, was as a child.

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    Most omnivores haven't a clue how much protein a person needs in a day.
    utopiankitchen.wordpress.com

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    yeah, omnivores just think that I'm going to pass out from not having had enough protein. They get this look on their face like they think I'm going to die. But they really have no idea what the story is with protein, and for many of them (particularly anyone that grew up in the US and is older than about 30) they still think that milk, meat, eggs, and cheese are the foundations of a healthy diet.

    Of course, that's only true if you define "healthy diet" as one that produces heart disease....

    With that said, I don't think that there's much that the meat industry *wouldn't* do to save itself. Just look at some of the websites out there (e.g. animalscam).

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    I eve's Avatar
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    I posted this on another thread, but it seems to apply here too.

    "I expect those of you who are in the US read this article?" http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/ncbs_vegan_study.htm
    Eve

  10. #10

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    Okay I know this is a list of URLs, but I would like people to read or at least scan them in order if you have the time:


    http://www.consumerfreedom.com/
    http://www.activistcash.com/

    http://www.westonaprice.org/index.html

    http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome
    (yes the untied states federal governments funds the largest beef and dairy lobbying group in the world with citizen taxes, because we know they can't afford it themselves right? BTW you can thank the GOP for this, the small government party (ha ha))



    Take a peek here to learn more about them, their ethics and politics:


    www.sourcewatch.org

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    I'm very familiar with Weston Price, they are evil, anti-soy, pro-meat bastards. Their "researchers" pop on parenting forums, mothering magazines etc. to spread the word how horrible and unhealthy a veg*n diet is for children.

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    cross barer
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    Quote Gorilla
    i've heard of people who went veggie in protest at the way animals are treated on factory farms, but became convinced that organic meat came from more humanely treated animals, so decided to eat only organic meat.
    There is no such thing as an organic slaughterhouse

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    The Weston A. Price Foundation is undertaking a new initiative to investigate instances and arrange possible legal assistance for individuals who believe that they or their child may have suffered serious physical or medical consequences as a result of ingesting one or more products containing soy.
    You've got to be kidding me....

    If this is the case shouldn't anyone harmed by pesticides (e.g. every single person on earth with cancer) be filing a class action suit against those companies?

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    Sally fallon, the creator of weston a price org is very much the ann coulter of the beef and dairy lobbying industry. She's written multiple deceitful books to promote her product, and if you read her articles and book excerpts (I would never buy her books as they're revenue for her organization) you'll see the dim witted humorist side of her personality.

    The soy article mentioned was pretty insane. It depends entirely on a study that used rodents that are genetically manipulated to easily grow tumors, force fed them GM soy that had been acid treated, more volume than they normally can consume, for an extended period of time. Not only was it an act of inexcusable cruelty, it was a failure sold as a success. If they would have fed beef and dairy to the same rodents they would have died quickly and painfully.

    BTW Weston A Price was what kind of scientist?... That's right he was a dentist...


    Surprise!

    BTW read their 'site tour for vegetarians' where they try hard to keep people from going vegan (most of their funding is from dairy).


    So if you read the USDA articles on sourcewatch, you'll see what industry/government in the US is already doing. Nothing short of mass murder to guarantee their profits.

  15. #15
    tails4wagging
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    Every now and then the giant meat industry wheels out some so called expert to push the 'meat is healthier' argument. Usually this is when there hasa been a recent scare about meat, ie. bse, or fat is bad for you etc,.

    We have a cattle market about 10 miles away and I hate being on the road on a wednesday as I see cattle wagons full of cattle or pigs going there and then to their death .

    There is no such thing as cruelty free meat, whether it is organic or not.

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    Ian 'Beefy' Botham is putting his not unconsiderable weight behind the British meat industry.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4306163.stm

    "The measures we've put in place to ensure the eating quality of Quality Standard beef and lamb are, we believe, unparalleled within the UK industry schemes and should make for even greater consumer satisfaction as they enjoy great quality beef and lamb."
    Perhaps consumers would like a visit to the slaughterhouse before their visit to the butcher or supermarket.

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    PinkFluffyCloud
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    Don't you feel that WE should all become spokespeople for Veganism, 'popping up' in magazines, etc wherever we get chance, to promote Veganism and its health benefits, especially to educate children?
    It really annoys me that my son gets told (at school) that Meat and Cheese are 'healthy' foods. Of course he gets the truth at home!

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    Well I'm not sure the meat industry has to bother with free range/organic meat. I see that as an entirely seperate movement. Even as a vegan I think that the welfare of the animal while alive is the most important thing rather then it being killed. Of course I'm against unneccary killing too but cruelty to animals while alive is even worse. If factory farming got banned tommorrow then the cost of meat would rise and more people would naturally decide to become veggie/vegan.

    Organic meat is naturally more expensive because it costs a good deal more to treat an animal well then cut corners and treat it badly.

    PFC: sadly they don't always publish controditiory letters in magazines with articles saying meat is good for you. I tried.

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    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Quote dreama
    If factory farming got banned tommorrow then the cost of meat would rise and more people would naturally decide to become veggie/vegan.
    i'm not sure that's true - the British government have been increasing the price of cigarettes way over the odds to try and stop people buying them, but it doesn't seem to have much effect on the number of smokers.
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

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    Quote adam antichrist
    There is no such thing as an organic slaughterhouse
    Good answer

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    Smoking is more adictive then eating meat which is mostly done out of ignorance. When I became fishitarian I didn't have cravings for meat at all even though I like the smell. I did crave fried egg though when I first became vegan. Some will still eat meat but the animals will have a better life style at least.

    Oh there are organic slaughter houses. Killing is killing I suppose but there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Quote dreama
    there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.
    It's their life that is different from each other, not their death.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Quote dreama
    Oh there are organic slaughter houses. Killing is killing I suppose but there is a big differance between killing an animal in your average slaughter house where the animals aren't stunned properly half the time and are more or less tortured to death and killed quickly which I think is what Organic slaughter houses do.
    What is your definition of an organic slaughterhouse and where are they found? Is that like how kosher slaughterhouses are more humane? Here's a link to how much better kosher slaughterhouses are to standard ones and I have the feeling that "organic" slaughterhouses are about the same.

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Quote Peter
    If I were to "save" the meat industry, I would think the best way to do so in the long run, was to try to do it in two parallel steps:

    1) Influence the vegetarian and vegan movement in various ways not to be so concerned about the ethics of killing, but rather focus on how animals are treated, with focus on the worst cases.

    2) Simultanously, I'd cooperate with or fund reform organisations that want to improve the factory farm industry, promote "humane" slaughtering, and make them look like support networks for animal farms.
    A third way would be to pay someone to destroy their buildings etc. Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Isn't there something horrible about the slaughtering in kosher slaughterhouse, ie: the animal is hung upside down alive before killed? Temple Grandin said something or another about it in her book.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I read about that too, Haniska. Seems even more cruel...if you can define levels of cruelty.

  27. #27
    cobweb
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    i've seen the video, it's incredibly haunting

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I'm surprised to read your suggestions of violence, Korn, when you say:

    "A third way would be to pay someone to destroy their buildings etc. Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods."
    Eve

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    No - I'm not suggesting violence! I'm saying that it would be beneficial for the meat industry to try to create a link between it's opponents and terror-like methods, because that would make the meat industry appear as the good guys and the anti-meat movement look like the bead guys, a bit like some people 'plant' false rumors about their political opponents only to gain sympathy. If thy would make it look like some eco-terrorists eg. have used a bomb against their buildings, it would be easier to convince media etc. that veg*ns and people who support animals rights are only 'extremists'.

    Of course, since some members of groups like ALF already are using such methods, the meat industry don't have to pay someone for doing it (unless some of these people already are paid by meat lobbyists...).

  30. #30
    Mahk
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    My understanding is that kosher beef must have the heart beating as the cattle are bled to death but there is no necessity for them to be conscious while this happens. The fully conscious ones we see in the Agriprocessors Iowa USA video are probably ones that dodged the captive bolt gun which normally knocks them out. [Or they wake up from the trauma of the neck cut/ trachea esophagus rip out, I'm not sure] In the longer versions of the video you see that some cattle that come out of the flip machine are definitely unconscious.

    There are a growing number of Jews that consider the kosher organizations that approve these disgusting acts as being unacceptable on ethical grounds:
    [YOUTUBE]_cBdX9QZCGo[/YOUTUBE]



    More here.

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    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I just watched the short version of "If This Is Kosher". I am haunted by those images. There is nothing, in any way, humane about those methods of killing. From what I can see "kosher" slaughter is a farce.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I don't think that kosher claims to be humane, more so something to do with making sure the blood is drained out, per the Bible. Kosher also means only eating the front half of the cow, which is altogether morbid.
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  33. #33
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    We are all talking about "kosher" as if it is a set set of rules with no gray areas and that's not true. Just like asking what is the Christian view on, say, "abortion" there is not just a single undisputed universal way of thinking about it. A Catholic Christian may think one way whereas a Protestant Christian may think another way; yet they are both Christians. That being said, there are still nearly universal shared views on what is and isn't kosher for the large majority of Jews and I think the delusion that their method of slaughter is more "humane" is one of them:

    "Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Cheit-Tav, meaning to destroy or kill. The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.

    Another advantage of shechitah is that it ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher."


    Source.

    I guess whoever wrote this hasn't seen the video.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    It's all disgusting-slaughter is slaughter. There is nothing humane about it. It all makes me sick (from how they are treated throughout their life right through to the horrible end) How people can support such cruel industries (dairy/eggs/meat) is beyond me.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote Korn View Post
    members of groups like ALF
    ALF do say "4. TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human."
    .. Maybe you're thinking of the RCALB?

    About any slaughter method could be described as 'humane' if people wanted it to as it is such a subjective term .. But often in slaughterhouses as the line moves so quickly its hard to make sure that they are 'treated in a humane way' , with reports of some being still alive when sent to be skinned ..
    I guess ignorance is a big tool for the meat industry ..
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe-Albert Einstein

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    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote Fungus View Post
    ALF do say "4. TO take all necessary precautions against harming any animal, human and non-human."
    .. Maybe you're thinking of the RCALB?
    No, I'm thinking of ALF. If you read my post again, it isn't about harming animals or humans, but destroying buildings etc.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    'Very few people sympathize with people who use brutal methods.' was really what I was replying to .. but never mind .. OT...
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe-Albert Einstein

  38. #38
    littlewinker
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    There are loooooads of adverts on the telly about calcium, milk, blah blah blah. And obviously, to most vegans anyway, the milk industry could not exist without the beef industry. That's one way they do it.

    Also, most go on about how their animals had happy lives.

    Most mainly rely on the fact that most meat eaters don't care enough to check or do anything about it and carry on the way they where brought up.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote Kim[ba] View Post
    You've got to be kidding me....

    If this is the case shouldn't anyone harmed by pesticides (e.g. every single person on earth with cancer) be filing a class action suit against those companies?
    Mate, ease up on my people! They don't know what caused my leukaemia, my personal (unproven) theory is that it may have been a quirk of genetics...

    I can't believe the meat people would do that! Honestly, do they really think they have the evidence to back it up?

  40. #40
    coney
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote Mahk View Post
    "This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible. "

    I guess whoever wrote this hasn't seen the video.

    I guess whoever wrote that hasn't had their throat cut to speak from experience. How would they know???

  41. #41
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I stumbled upon this article today:

    The United States Meat Industry at a Glance

    The meat and poultry industry is the largest segment of U.S. agriculture. Total meat and poultry production in 2007 reached more than 91 billion pounds.

    In 2007, the meat and poultry industry processed
    9 billion chickens
    34.2 million cattle
    271 million turkeys
    2.7 million sheep
    109 million hogs and lambs

    In 2007, American meat companies produced
    36.6 billion pounds of chicken
    26.5 billion pounds of beef
    21.9 billion pounds of pork
    6 billion pounds of turkey
    334 million pounds of veal, lamb and mutton
    And, some Canadian meat industry numbers:
    In 2007, there were:

    14.2 million cattle and calves on approximately 90,000 farms and ranches with beef cattle. Alberta accounts for approximately 40% of this inventory. Farm cash receipts from the sale of cattle and calves in 2007 totalled $6.2 billion, 15% of total farm receipts.
    14.9 million hogs on approximately 11,000 farms. Farm cash receipts from the sale of slaughter hogs in 2007 totalled $3.3 billion, 8% of total farm receipts.
    879,000 sheep and lambs on approximately 12,000 farms. Canadian sheep production is mostly located in Alberta, Ontario and Quebec (72%). Farm cash receipts for sheep and lamb in 2007 totalled $125 million.
    116,000 head of Canadian farmed raised venison on about 1,525 farms. Elk are primarily farmed in the west and red deer in the eastern provinces. Fallow deer, white-tailed deer and other venison species are found throughout Canada.
    220,000 bison on about 1,900 farms in Canada. Bison production is primarily concentrated in the west at 85-90%.
    With so much money involved, I wouldn't be surprised if the meat industry would do almost anything to keep the myth about humans needing meat (animal products) alive, including all the stuff the tobacco industry is known for: lying, holding back facts, 'buying' experts and lobbyists and so on.
    Last edited by Korn; Aug 26th, 2009 at 02:09 AM.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    its utterly disgusting

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote petunia View Post
    its utterly disgusting
    I agree

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Does the meat industry really see the veg*an movement as that much of a threat, though? With those numbers, I seriously doubt it.

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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    To add, lately the TV where I live has been bombarded with ads for Hillshire Farms, where they have groups of people cooking meat or eating meat in various ways and go over how "pure" or "natural" the meat is and at the end of the commercial everyone screams "GO MEAT". The latest one is at a school during lunch and the kids are having an auction for this really *great* sandwhich overflowing with meat and finally the kid trades the sandwhich for a pony, then again, at the end all the little kids yell "GO MEAT".
    I really don't like those commercials......

  46. #46
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    The thought of all those lives being taken makes me feel really sad and despondent.
    It is down to money though, isn't it? Things will only change when the demand for 'meat' declines............so, it's a case of plodding on and making changes where we can.
    That's why I would encourage otherwise dubious companies when they produce a vegan product, by buying it................if there is a demand for vegan products that can only be a good thing.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    DavidT's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    The disconnect between food and its source is a huge problem. Ask people to raise, kill and prepare a chicken for their table and...

    I really have more respect for the people who do this openly (I live amongst such a community) than your average meat-eater, particularly the 'celebrity' bothams of this world who actually help foster the disconnect.
    "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

  48. #48
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    I sort of know what you mean David, but humans seriously scare me. I couldn't respect anyone who raises and experiences being in a living beings company and then takes it and kills it.

    While we were in Dublin, our hotel overlooked a field full of cows. At night the farmer would walk into the field and those lovely, gentle animals would dutifully follow him back to goodness knows where for the night. Then the next morning they would be led back into the field.

    I couldn't help but ponder over HOW that man could do that day after day............make that connection with those animals, see how they trusted him enough to follow him and then.....................
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

  49. #49
    Prawnil
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    Quote DavidT View Post
    I really have more respect for the people who do this openly
    I think this is a majority judgement among vegans, and one I completely & utterly disagree with. One that positively disturbs me. I think it involves misplaced respect for a person taking open & full responsibility for something, but while totally ignoring the moral content of what it is that person is taking responsibility for. [...insert useless paedo/Nazi analogy as required]
    It'll be quite some moral landscape when wilful ignorance & inaction are morally worse than the act of killing without necessity itself.

    Take a microcosm of 10,000 people baying for meat, addicted to its taste & texture and claiming to have no qualms with slaughter to satisfy themselves, but who, when faced with it, cannot bring themselves to kill, & you have a world without slaughter. Introduce 1 person with the psychological capacity to slaughter without any necessity, & you now have the supply to meet the previously benign demand and a new world of pointless killing. It's those who take responsibility, & when it comes to it accept & perform the killing who are the absolute basis of the situation. The greatest 'evil' lies with precisely those people.

  50. #50
    Mahk
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    Default Re: What do you reckon the meat industry does to save itself (and fight veg*nism

    A co-worker of mine while eating a meat sandwich once said to me between bites, "If I had to kill the animals myself, I'd instantly become a vegetarian, myself."

    I don't get him. I guess to him killing is allowed but he just doesn't want to be the one to do it.

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