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Fish: health benefits?
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Thread: Fish: health benefits?

  1. #1
    I eve's Avatar
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    Cool Fish: health benefits?

    This makes for interesting reading about various myths:
    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/hea...icle353286.ece
    Eve

  2. #2

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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Hi Eve!

    Great article, especially for the important points it misses. It's the DHA, not omega-3 fatty acids that our bodies need. And if people are ingesting too much omega-6 fatty acids, the omega-3's don't get converted into DHA.

    I can't understand why the public is only given part of the picture. This isn't a very difficult concept. It's possible that there is some good nutritional science here that will turn into junk science because it is being approached the wrong way.

    On the other hand, I'm glad that fish oil is getting a bad rap.
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    It also points out the dangers if ingesting mercury.

    A first in the national press? I was beginning to get the idea that they thought fish was a miracle food.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    hehehe..just saw this on the news!

  5. #5
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    I take hemp oil every day for my omega supplements!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  6. #6
    FR
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    What is good about ground flax seed and flax oil is, one it is mercury free, and two, the DHA content in flax allows your body to produces its own omega 3's as opposed to various fish species which already have the omega 3's present in the flesh.

    I am glad this study came out. Hopefully those who consume sea animals will take heed to this.

  7. #7
    Geoff
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Thanks for that Eve. I heard about it on Radio National this morning. I've bookmarked The Independant as it seems a good source.

  8. #8

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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote FR
    What is good about ground flax seed and flax oil is, one it is mercury free, and two, the DHA content in flax allows your body to produces its own omega 3's as opposed to various fish species which already have the omega 3's present in the flesh.

    I am glad this study came out. Hopefully those who consume sea animals will take heed to this.
    FR, this is precisely what I was talking about. There is definitely some confusion about omega fatty acids.

    Omega 3 fatty acids break down into other acids. (EPA and DHA) However, flaxseed is only available in the form of LNA (the substance we refer to as omega 3 fatty acid). We need to break LNA into EPA then DHA. Fish actually has omega 3 fatty acids (LNA), EPA and DHA. Therefore it looks like a great product to those who don't want to watch their ratio of Omega-6 vs. Omega-3 fatty acids. See, it's all getting rather complicated now. And it IS complicated.

    The bottom line is - your body needs a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids to be 4:1 or less for optimal health. There are more in depth discussions about this in another thread. I'll post the links if anyone is interested. The whole topic of essential fatty acids is new and will continue to evolve, just like everything else in "nutritional science." Again, nothing is simple.
    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

  9. #9
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote gogs67
    I take hemp oil every day for my omega supplements!
    Me too.
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Crazy but true the Canadians bash seals over the head to "protect fish stocks" whilst feeding fish to their cows in a mad effort to make the milk more suitable for humans with omega 3 !!!!

    Unfortuneately the evidence for flax and DHA is shakey (unless you talk to Urdo Erasmus who says Omega 6 is to blame and then fills his £15 a bottle snakeoil with sunflower oil)

    Organic Hemp oil is better (and cheaper) as it is one step further along towards long chain fatty acids such as DHA.

    The real answer to this worldwide dilemma appears to be vegan omega 3 preconverted to DHA and EPA from algae.

    Microalgae was harvested by the Aztecs and used by the Chinese for centuries. It has been used for a few years now in infant formulas in the USA.

    See www.vegetarian-dha-epa.co.uk or www.water4.net for more info.

  11. #11
    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    In the omega debate i heard one doctor say that all Flax sedd oil is good for is putting on your furniture!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  12. #12
    Vote VBB veganbikerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote gogs67
    I take hemp oil every day for my omega supplements!
    I think hemp seed is OK but has an almost equal balance of omega 3 and omega 6. Therefore is not particulary good to boost O3 which is what vegans lack. I therefore take a flaxseed supplement.

    Also the body finds it difficult to convert flaxseed oil into DHA, so i take a vegan DHA supplement.

  13. #13
    Vote VBB veganbikerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote gogs67
    In the omega debate i heard one doctor say that all Flax sedd oil is good for is putting on your furniture!
    New research has shown that farmed fish is no good for O3. When fish are farmed they donot consume their natural diet, they are feed on waste fish oil and vegetable oil (rich in o6) and this has changed the oil balance within the fish.

    Also fish (particularly their oils) act as a filter for PCBs (highly carcenogenic) so to feed fish on fish oil further concentrates the PCBs. making fish cancer causing not preventing.

    I think it's natures way of killing off annoying vegetarians that eat fish

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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote DonQuinoa

    Unfortuneately the evidence for flax and DHA is shakey (unless you talk to Urdo Erasmus who says Omega 6 is to blame and then fills his £15 a bottle snakeoil with sunflower oil)

    I think you'll find that what he more likely said was that -too much- omega 6 was problematic. Just like omega 3, omega 6 is essential, not a problem. It is simply that people on standard diets (and most vegan/veggie) consume far too much of it. If there was no omega 6 in his 'snakeoil', his theory is that a deficiency would result. (they compete for the same enzymes) I find this highly unlikely unless his oil was all you lived on. So perhaps the sunflower oil is a filler? Cheaper?

  15. #15

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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Quote gogs67
    In the omega debate i heard one doctor say that all Flax sedd oil is good for is putting on your furniture!
    Who was he in the pay of i wonder!?

  16. #16
    vegan1969
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    Default Fish Can't Scream - a long one

    This is a long read but I feel it's worth it. If you know someone who eats fish, give them a copy of this article and see if they continue to eat it.
    -----------------------------------------------

    FISH CAN'T SCREAM, FISH TOXINS, FISH STORIES
    Because pawns of commercial fishing interests at the NY Times and BBC in January of 2006 and at Harvard recently have promoted the consumption of fish flesh, this article is a response. Dick Gregory: Eating fish liver oil is like eating the filter out of a car.
    The BBC in an article promoting fish consumption wrote " Depression - Linked to low intakes of fish - high in omega-3 fatty acids which are essential for good brain health".

    MERCURY AND OTHER TOXIC METALS HARM BRAIN
    In reality the high mercury levels in fish cause memory and mental function loss. "Symptoms of amnesic shellfish poisoning include possible permanent short-term memory loss." * The cultures eating the most fish (Inuit) have the lowest life expectancy of any group surviving to adulthood, while the Japanese who eat high amounts of fish have as their number 1 cause of death fish correlated stomach cancer. Toxins in fish include selenium, chromium, lead, arsenic, pcb's, pbb's, pvc's and every other nonbiodegradable toxin which is 100 to 1000 times more concentrated in the flesh of fish than in the water. (Rachel Carson's The Silent Spring dealt with among other things the massive loss of bird and fish life from DDT. Fish is the antibrain food as fruitarian and vegetarian geniuses DaVinci, Einstein, Ramanujan, Mary Shelley and others can attest. Linus Pauling, only person to win a Nobel Prize both for peace and his discovery of 6 elements, has written that an orthmolecule is a fruit molecule. They are the most similar to the neural transmitters in the brain. There is no vitamin C (speeds flow of nerve signals across synapses) in fish or animal flesh or in animal products.) The EPA issued 3500 warnings against fish consumption in one year alone. Arsenic poisoning (arsenic from the oceans is concentrated in the flesh of fishes) creates lesions and warts on the hands.

    II PROSTATE UTERINE AND BREAST CANCER FROM FISH
    The female hormones correlated to skyrocketing rates of prostate, uterine and breast cancer in the US come from injections or 'medications' given to cows, sheep pigs chickens etc. The urine from these factory farmed animals is dumped into the waterways causing fish to have cancerous growths. If they are eaten by humans before they die they can cause cancer in human beings, just as a chicken can transmit leukemia (though the multi trillion dollar chicken industry calls leukemia leukosis when they don't manage to hide chicken cancer altogether.)

    III STOMACH CANCER
    One national cancer association reports that fish consumption is related to stomach cancer.. Those countries with the highest fish consumption having the highest rates. Included are Korea, Japan, Chile, Norway and others. Those countries with the highest meat consumption (Canada, Australia, the US, Chile, Argentina, etc.) have the highest intestinal cancer rates.

    IV FOOD POISONING
    Fish flesh can cause food poisoning (ptomaine, brucellosis,
    toxoplasmosis, salmonella, ecoli). Anaphylactic shock frequently causes death to those who eat shellfish. It is universally known that dead fish stink (as do all cadavers). Choking on fish bones has been common throughout the centuries. The Texas Dept. of Health stated in one year that 245 people had been victims of illness from oysters in Galveston Bay. The bacterium is Vibrio parahaemolyticus. 208 people have had oyster illness in the Northwest. U.S. News and World Report Nov 24, 1997: One of the strains causing food poisoning in shellfish is Vibria Vulnificus.

    V INTESTINAL PROBLEMS
    There is no natural bulk in fish. It is naturally constipating.

    VI KIDNEY PROBLEMS
    The ketosis from high animal protein diets leads not only
    to bleeding ulcers but to kidney shutdown and blocked urethras.

    VII PISCEAN SPONGIFORM ENCEPHALITIS OR MAD FISH DISEASE
    In addition is the emerging truth of piscean spongiform encephalopathy or Mad Fish Disease as both factory farmed and ocean fish are eating the parts of other animals.

    VIII HEART DISEASE AND ARTHRITIS
    The uric acid in fish is trioxypurine, more powerful than caffein, and is correlated to arthritis as it crystallizes in needle formation around the joints. It also adds to the incidence of heart disease and stroke, stimulating the heart unnaturally.

    VIII B ADDICTION
    The uric acid or trioxypurine like caffein or dioxypurine is addictive, and since there are more oxypurines than in coffee, it is more addictive. "If you miss fish or meat, take out a veggieburger and whiz on it."

    IX WORMS.
    Owen Parrett, MD wrote that even Rocky Mountain trout
    from the most unpolluted streams have worms while

    X HEPATITIS
    The coprophagous (human and other waste eating) habits
    of shellfish are the number 2 (yes) cause of hepatitis.

    XI MOST DANGEROUS OCCUPATION
    Commercial fishing causes more fatalities annually than any other occupation, through sudden storm drownings, through problems with pulleys, ropes, nets, sails, through spiking and other injuries from fishes gasping for their breath and fighting for their lives. Noncommercial fishermen have died when lightning turned their metal poles into lightning rods.

    XII CHOKING
    Choking on meat or fish is the 6th cause of accidental death in the US. So common has it been to choke on fish bones that the Catholic Church has a feastday dedicated to St. Blaize in which
    throats are blessed. Fraternity house pranks in the cruel blood sport of goldfish swallowing have resulted in deaths to humans
    as well as the fish.

    XIII ALLERGIES TO IODINE
    A radio network caller, Oct 27, 97: "My mother never got to see the same military MD twice, so it was years before medical detectives realized that her Saturday headaches were caused by her Friday fisheating with an allergy to iodine.

    XIV FISH DISEASES
    NPR November 6, 1997: Dr. James Porter of the Univ. of Athens at Georgia was studying the many new fishes diseases such as black band and white pox. He reported that increased shipping, increased pollution, and overfishing (an oxymoron since all fishing is overfishing) are factors for the rise.

    XV OXYMORONS: FRESH FISH AND OVERFISHING
    With asbestos in Lake Michigan, pcb's in the livers of polar
    bears in Alaska, oyster contamination in the Gulf from the runoff of the Mississippi, lipophilic insecticides in Lake Erie, pfiesteria
    in the Atlantic seaboard ..arsenic, chromium and mercury, pcb's, insecticides, fish killing old oil and every other toxin in the oceans, shellfish in the NE eating unprocessed human waste, where is there fresh fish? The UN FAO, Prince Philip, and government and private coalitions around the world are working to reduce fishing so as not to wipe out certain species.

    XVI COMMERCIAL CORRUPTION
    There are trillions of gallons of fish oil slop on trawler and
    processing floors. Harvard whose corporate funded studies were a factor in Stanley Prusiner's (prion discoverer) leaving for California is also promoting the glut of fish on the market. States like Maryland which subsidize fishing promotion are violating the first amendment rights of Buddhists, Hindus,
    vegetarians, vegans, Seventh Day Adventists, Jains, and
    many other religions which teach not killing. The sale of fish brings 54 million to the state of Maryland, whose governor prevailed on 3 chains in the Washington area to begin again to sell Chesapeake fish despite the pfiesteria disease caused by untold trillions of gallons of pig factory farm sewage being dumped into the Atlantic. One factor of many in the disease of the fish might be the Calvert Cliffs nuclear power plant, which raises the temperature of the water in the area.

    XVII MARINE MAMMAL MURDER
    Seals and whales are killed by Canadians Norwegians and Japanese because they compete for fish. Penguin babies can die because there are no longer enough fish for them to eat. Dolphins, turtles and other sea creatures are caught in the nets. Whales are caught in lobster lines. Manatee and all forenamed creatures are caught in boat propellers. Those who promote fisheating incur the karma not only of the suffocated fish (problems of breath) but the karma of the seals, whales, dolphins, turtles, octopi and all other sea beings killed by the fishing industry or individuals. A Hindu ashram not in accord with the Bhagavad Gita's dietary nonviolence was inundated by the perhaps military machine generated tsunami.

    XVIII FISHES' SENTIENCE
    Dr Donald Broom, science adviser to the British government, has said that the pain system in fish is the same as for mammals and humans. Any child who sees a fish flopping on the deck, or
    struggling for life on a hook, or impaled in the eye by a flyfisher knows that fishes feel pain. What's worse than a snakeoil salesman? A pawn of fishmongers.

    XIX VEGAN CAT FOOD
    A vanguard of holistic veterinarians, and James A
    Peden, author of VEGETARIAN CATS AND DOGS, which is in its third printing, are working to help petowners transition their cats to nonharmful foods, ones which do not cause urethra blockages, feline leukemia, kidney dysfunction or
    food poisoning. Andrew Knight DVM has written of a litany
    of toxins in commercial pet food.


    ANTI FISHING ORGANIZATION WEBSITES INCLUDE ALL
    VEGETARIAN AND VEGAN WEBSITES
    http://www.fishinghurts.com
    http://www.pisces.demon.co.uk/
    http://www.vegancats.com
    https://secureusa.greenpeace.org/mercury/?from=gotmercury
    (hair tested for mercury residues)

    FREE AND ONLINE ARTICLES BY VEGAN MD'S
    http://www.pcrm.org 5% of this 7000 member group are
    vegan MD's
    http://www.drgreger.org/ http://www.veganmd.org
    http://www.geocities.com/athens/agora/7732/meat.html
    Owen Parrett, MD
    http://www.vegsource.com/harris/cancer_vegdiet.htm
    Harris
    http://www.goveganradio.com Dr Jerry Vlasak LA Surgeon and AR
    http://www.drday.com
    http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/ vegan lectures on
    impotence and animal fat
    http://www.christianveg.com articles by Stephen
    Kaufman, MD
    http://news.adventist.org/data/2001/06/0995375716/index.html.en
    Adventists longest lived community in US.. Ellen White
    said to be vegan Mervyn Hardinge, MD (left Harvard as did Stanley Prusiner) (Harvard is invested in slaughterhouses and its research is pawn to its investments) Hardinge wrote Non Flesh Dietaries, his study of fruitarians, vegans, vegetarians and animal eaters for the Journal of the ADA (a dairy dominated lobby) Stanley Prusiner, PhD discoverer of prions or Mad Cow and other spongiform encephalopathies Joan Ullyot MD of San Francisco sports medicine Linus Pauling, PhD Winner of 2 Nobel Prizes.. one in biochemistry and one for peace... said fruitarian diet is the diet which generated neural transmitters of human beings http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/ (an animal abuse institution.
    Dr Pauling would not animals harmed in research) Milton Mills, MD sued dairy industry over lactose intolerance
    Physician Exposes: http://www.envirolink.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1264

    FISH STORIES
    a. A man took his daughters fishing in Tampico Bay in Mexico.. and was spiked by a large catfish which severed a hand artery. He was able to get medical attention for the profuse bleeding.
    b. Janet Barkas, editor of Grove Press, went fishing and caught
    a hook in the fish' eye. That was her last day fishing.
    c. PW, at the Soldier and Sailors' Home in Washington, caught the same fish out of the pond virtually every day for 10
    years.. each time pulling the hook from the throat.. sometimes with flesh attached. PW died of throat cancer. A Calcutta guru who told his followers it was permissible to eat fish died of throat cancer. (The child of a well=known presidential candidate went to a hospital to be treated for his flyfishing hook which was imbedded in his nose.)
    d. One fisherman reports that after seeing the fishes
    gasp for air in the bottom of his boat.. as they slowly suffocate.. he will never fish again.
    e. Syndee Brinkman: I went snorkeling and saw how gently the fish welcomed us into their world.. and how violently we
    welcomed them into ours.. I never ate an animal or fish again.
    f. EB was a fisherman all his life and lived into his
    mid nineties. He stopped fishing after he dreamt one night that he was tiny and a fish was very large. The fish had him on a hook.

    BOOK BY VEGETARIAN MD'S
    Diet and Nutrition; Rudolf Ballantine, MD.
    Diseases Of Food Animals Owen Parrett MD
    Foods That Cause You to Lose Weight: The Negative
    Calorie Effect more books like this by Barnard, Neal MD (Dr Barnard has written over a dozen books)
    EyeCare Sourcebook by Jay Lavine MD http://www.drlavine.org
    (some of his articles are free on the internet)
    http://hometown.aol.com/sauromalus/jewishveg.htm Jay Lavine

    Physicians
    http://www.pcrm.org
    http://www.geocities.com/athens/agora/7732/meat.html
    Owen Parrett MD author of Diseases Of Food Animals on why he does not eat meat http://www.goveganradio.com
    Dr Jerry Vlasak LA Surgeon http://www.drday.com
    http://www.drgreger.org/ http://www.veganmd.org
    http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/ vegan lectures on
    impotence and animal fat
    http://news.adventist.org/data/2001/06/0995375716/index.html.en
    Adventists longest lived community in US.. Ellen White
    said to be vegan http://www.ivu.org/news/evu/news971/costs2.html
    Please purchase books printed on nontree paper or 100%
    recycled paper (e.g. rice, cotton)
    ------
    both Oregon State and the Seventh Day Adventist Hospitals
    are inflicting pain on animals. Dr Pauling would not want
    his Nobel winning work contaminated by animal torture.
    http://www.fishinghurts.com

    MARINE TOXINS
    (Generally, the CDC has been the tool of multinational pharmaceutical drug pushers and has stifled information
    about the toxic effects of meat, fish, and animal products.
    However paragraphs from a CDC article from the cdc.gov webpage are informative.)

    The most common diseases caused by marine toxins in United States in order of incidence are scombrotoxic fish poisoning, ciguatera poisoning, paralytic shellfish poisoning, neurotoxic shellfish poisoning and amnesic shellfish poisoning.

    Scombrotoxic fish poisoning also known as scombroid or
    histamine fish poisoning, is caused by bacterial spoilage of certain finfish such as tuna, mackerel, bonito, and, rarely, other fish. As bacteria break down fish proteins, byproducts such as histamine and other substances that block histamine breakdown build up in fish. Eating spoiled fish that have high levels of these histamines can cause in human disease. Symptoms begin within 2 minutes to 2 hours after eating the fish. The most common symptoms are rash, diarrhea, flushing, sweating, headache, and vomiting. Burning or swelling of the mouth, abdominal pain, or a metallic taste may also occur. The majority of patients have mild symptoms that resolve within a few hours. Treatment is generally unnecessary, but antihistamines or epinephrine may be needed in certain instances. Symptoms may be more severe in patients taking certain medications that slow the breakdown of histamine by their liver, such as isoniazide and doxycycline.

    Ciguatera poisoning or ciguatera is caused by eating contaminated tropical reef fish. Ciguatoxins that cause ciguatera poisoning are actually produced by microscopic sea plants called dinoflagellates. These toxins become progressively concentrated as they move up the food chain from small fish to large fish that eat them, and reach particularly high concentrations in large predatory tropical reef fish. Barracuda are commonly associated with ciguatoxin poisoning, but eating grouper, sea bass, snapper, mullet, and a number of other fish that live in oceans between latitude has caused the disease. These fish are typically caught by sport fishermen on reefs in Hawaii, Guam and other South Pacific islands, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. Ciguatoxin usually causes symptoms within a few minutes to 30 hours after eating contaminated fish, and occasionally it may take up to 6 hours. Common nonspecific symptoms include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, cramps, excessive sweating, headache, and muscle aches. The sensation of burning or "pins-and-needles," weakness, itching, and dizziness can occur. Patients may experience reversal of temperature sensation in their mouth (hot surfaces feeling cold and cold, hot), unusual taste sensations, nightmares, or hallucinations. Ciguatera poisoning is rarely fatal. Symptoms usually clear in 1 to 4 weeks.

    Paralytic shellfish poisoning is caused by a different dinoflagellate with a different toxin, than that causing ciguatera poisoning. These dinoflagellates have a red-brown color, and can grow to such numbers that they cause red streaks to appear in the ocean called "red tides." This toxin is known to concentrate within certain shellfish that typically live in the colder coastal waters of the Pacific states and New England, though the syndrome has been reported in Central America. Shellfish that have caused this disease include mussels, cockles, clams, scallops, oysters, crabs, and lobsters. Symptoms begin anywhere from 15 minutes to 10 hours after eating the contaminated shellfish, although usually within 2 hours. Symptoms are generally mild, and begin with numbness or tingling of the face, arms, and legs. This is followed by headache, dizziness, nausea, and muscular incoordination. Patients sometimes describe a floating sensation. In cases of severe poisoning, muscle paralysis and respiratory failure occur, and in these cases death may occur in 2 to 25 hours. Neurotoxic shellfish poisoning is caused by a third type of dinoflagellate with another toxin that occasionally accumulates in oysters, clams, and mussels from the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic coast of the southern states. Symptoms begin 1 to 3 hours after eating the contaminated shellfish and include numbness, tingling in the mouth, arms and legs, incoordination, and gastrointestinal upset. As in ciguatera poisoning, some patients report temperature reversal. Death is rare. Recovery normally occurs in 2 to 3 days. Amnesic shellfish poisoning is a rare syndrome caused by a toxin made by a microscopic, red-brown, salt-water plant, or diatom called Nitzchia pungens. The toxin produced by these diatoms is concentrated in shellfish such as mussels and causes disease when the contaminated shellfish are eaten. Patients first experience gastrointestinal distress within 24 hours after eating the contaminated shellfish. Other reported symptoms have included dizziness, headache, disorientation, and permanent short-term memory loss. In severe poisoning, seizures, focal weakness or paralysis, and death may occur.

    How can these diseases be diagnosed?
    Diagnosis of marine toxin poisoning is generally based on symptoms and a history of recently eating a particular kind of seafood. Laboratory testing for the specific toxin in patient samples is generally not necessary because this requires special techniques and equipment available in only specialized laboratories. If suspect, leftover fish or shellfish are available,
    they can be tested for the presence of the toxin more easily. Identification of the specific toxin is not usually necessary for treating patients because there is no specific treatment.

    Are there long-term consequences to these diseases?
    Ciguatera poisoning has resulted in some neurologic problems persisting for weeks, and in rare cases, even years. Symptoms have sometimes returned after eating contaminated fish a second time. Amnesic shellfish poisoning has resulted in long-term problems with short-term memory. Long-term consequences have not been associated with paralytic shellfish poisoning, neurotoxic shellfish poisoning, and scombrotoxic fish poisoning. http://www.worldanimalnet.org
    (The British Pisces groups which works to end fishing was listed as a recommended link, and is not responsible for any of the writing herein.)

    © Animal Rights Coalition 9

  17. #17
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Here are some more links about fish/health from various sources...

    http://members.aol.com/Sauromalus/vegnutr.htm#7

    Why don't vegetarians eat fish? Isn't eating fish healthy?

    To ethical vegetarians, it's not healthy for the fish, most of which are raised by aquaculture and live greatly restricted lives, much like warm-blooded farm animals.

    From the health standpoint, there is no good evidence that fish consumption is of any benefit to people who are not at high risk for heart disease, and no evidence at all that it would benefit low-risk people following healthful vegetarian diets. The apparent short-term benefit to high-risk individuals may be related to the ability of fish oils to reduce the risk of arrhythmias (alterations in heart rhythm). By the way, magnesium, the best sources of which include whole grains, green vegetables, legumes, nuts, and seeds, also has antiarrhythmic properties.

    Theoretically, fish oils have a number of other beneficial properties, such as improving endothelial function (the ability of blood vessels to dilate when necessary), lowering blood viscosity (thickness), and reducing inflammation. But a healthful lifestyle incorporating a low-fat vegetarian diet provides similar benefits.

    On the negative side, fish oils promote the oxidation of LDL-cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol). This oxidation results in deposition of the cholesterol in the walls of arteries (hardening of the arteries). Plant foods, on the other hand, have the opposite effect. Another major negative is the contamination of many fish by toxins and other pollutants. This includes farmed fish as well as fish in the wild. Finally, as with all flesh foods, fish consumption increases the risk of kidney stones.

    We must keep two important points in mind when we evaluate studies looking at the effects of fish consumption. First, we must consider that a beneficial effect may be due to substituting fish for something more harmful, such as beef. Second, we must take into account the observation that people with higher fish intakes also tend to have higher intakes of fruits and vegetables. Therefore, fish consumption may just be a marker for plant food consumption. In line with these two precautions, one major European study found no association between fish consumption and mortality from heart disease when flavonoids (a marker for plant foods), saturated fats (a marker for animal products), and smoking were controlled for.

    Technically-minded people may want to read an important editorial by Dr. Peter Markmann concerning the lack of benefit from fish consumption (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 2003;78:1-2).
    Fishing for heart protection

    Fish Intake, Marine Omega-3 Fatty Acids, and Mortality in a Cohort of Postmenopausal Women.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  18. #18
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    Default Infectious Salmon Anaemia

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/7861790.stm

    "A second case of the fish disease Infectious Salmon Anaemia (ISA) has been confirmed on Shetland.
    Scientists said the disease was found at a fish farm close to the one in the Burra area which was confirmed with the infection on 2 January.
    The Scottish Government said owners Hjaltland Sea Farms would "depopulate" its site as soon as possible.
    The disease does not affect humans but can cause serious damage to stocks of farmed Atlantic salmon in seawater.
    A controlled zone was set up on 2 January after the virus was found at an empty fish farm off Burra.
    The virus was also suspected at two other sites in the area.
    The movement of fish and equipment has been restricted.
    Fish health inspectors will continue investigations in the area.
    An outbreak of ISA on Shetland, the Western Isles and Orkney in 1998 and 1999 was estimated to have cost the industry £100m and led to the loss of 200 jobs."


    Another farmed animal disease

  19. #19
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Infectious Salmon Anaemia

    What will it take to make humans realise that what they are doing is wrong?
    Those poor fish! I really despair.
    I like Sandra, she keeps making me giggle. Daft little lady - Frosty

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    Default Eating fish doesn't save you from heart failure

    I have friends who are almost vegetarain, but they don't want to give up fish, the reason is about heart problems. Just read the following news about fish, post it here, may be some of you would like to share with friends.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/l...ow/5071499.cms

    Eating fish doesn't save you from heart failure


    Fi sh plays no role in the prevention of heart failure, but it can be partly beneficial for people with diabetes, according to a large prospective population study.

    The study, which was started in 1990 and involved all men and women over the age of 55 living in a suburb of Rotterdam, found no difference in the risk of developing heart failure between those who did eat fish and those who didn’t.

    "Scientists and health authorities are increasingly persuaded that the intake of fish - even in small amounts - will protect against the risk of fatal myocardial infarction," said study investigator Dr Marianne Geleinjse from Wageningen University in the Netherlands.

    "However, there is no strong evidence that eating fish will protect against heart failure. One study has suggested that this might be so, but we could not confirm it in our cohort study of older Dutch people," added Geleinjse.

    While heart failure treatments are often limited to palliative care, much rests on prevention.
    The current study was aimed to investigate whether intake of the long-chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) found in fish conferred protection against heart failure as they seem to do against coronary heart disease.

    The analysis comprised 5299 subjects (41 percent men, mean age 67.5 years) who were free from heart failure and for whom dietary data were available.
    During 11.4 years of follow-up, 669 subjects developed heart failure.

    Their habitual diet had been assessed at baseline (in a self-reported checklist and by expert interview), with subjects specifically asked to indicate the frequency, amount, and kind of fish they had eaten, either as a hot meal, on a sandwich, or between meals.
    Results showed that the dietary intake of fish was not significantly related to heart failure incidence.

    However, in diabetic subjects the researchers saw a slight improvement.

    The study is published in the October issue of the European Journal of Heart Failure .

    You also can find another longer report from Sicence Daily website:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0929203024.htm

  21. #21
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    (August 15, 2009)
    Fish and Fish Oil Linked to Diabetes Risk

    A new Harvard study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition links fish and omega-3 oil consumption to type 2 diabetes. Following 195,204 adults for 14 to18 years, researchers found that the more fish or omega-3 fatty acids participants consumed, the higher their risk of developing diabetes. The risk increase was modest for occasional fish eaters, but rose to a 22 percent increased risk for women consuming five or more fish servings per week.

    Prior studies have suggested that fat accumulation within muscle cells can lead to insulin resistance which, in turn, contributes to diabetes. People who eat no animal products have less fat in their cells and much less risk of developing diabetes. A low-fat vegan diet has been shown to improve type 2 diabetes.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  22. #22
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Fish Oils Offer No Heart Benefit
    April 3 2009

    In a report presented at the American College of Cardiology's annual meeting this week, researchers announced that omega-3 fatty acids, prevalent in fatty fish, have no heart-health benefit. Among nearly 4,000 heart attack patients, no difference was seen between those who consumed omega-3 supplements and those who took placebo pills.

    The conclusions are similar to those of a 2006 review of 89 randomized control trials and cohort studies, which showed no benefit of omega-3 intake on total mortality, cardio-vascular events, or cancer.

    Study/Research Reference:

    Senges J. Omega-3 fatty acids on top of modern therapy after acute myocardial infarction (OMEGA). Report presented at: American College of Cardiology Annual Meeting; March 30, 2009: Orlando, FL.

    Hooper L, Thompson RL, Harrison RA, et al. Risks and benefits of omega-3 fats for mortality, cardiovascular disease, and cancer: systematic review. BMJ. 2006;332:752-760.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  23. #23
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default All fish tested from US streams found contaminated with mercury

    Part of the purpose of this forum is to shed some light on whether animal products as such are healthy or unhealthy (in what meat eaters consider "normal" amounts) for humans. This link is about mercury in fish, and as such doesn't say anything about fish that isn't contaminated with mercury, but is still gives a hint about the relationship between use of animal products and health in today's society. The meat and fish (etc) people eat usually is processed and also victims of the many processes animal products go through.

    So, when someone says that animal products as such would have been fine if we would have been living on this planet 1000 years ago... the point is that we don't. It's too many humans and too few wild animals to fantasize of some ancient state-of-the-planet. If people would have to kill their own wild animals, the woods would have been empty within a week. If everybody should fish their own fish (not that putting a sharp hook inside the food the fish an dfool an animal to eat it, and then pull the animal by it's already hurt mouth is even remotely close to be considered "humane"), the coast lines in most countries would have be covered by fishers. And so on... Anyway, the link:

    Sunday, March 7, 2010
    All fish tested from US streams found contaminated with mercury
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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    Default Re: All fish tested from US streams found contaminated with mercury

    God it's so scary to learn that so many fish (and so many other animals..including other humans) have to be affected by our selfishness.

  25. #25
    Johnstuff's Avatar
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    Default Re: All fish tested from US streams found contaminated with mercury

    Yeah I don't think fish is as healthy as some would make out.

  26. #26
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    An article criticising the media's reporting of omega 3 research:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...mega3-fish-oil

    ...with a lot of debate underneath.

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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    I love Ben Goldacre!

  28. #28
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Yes, he's good. Too bad no one in the meeja seems to take much notice of him, not even in his own publication (well, the Observer is run by the same outfit as the Guardian).

    Just to be clear, I think omega 3 oils (not necessarily from fish) may well have some benefits, but it has yet to be shown that they have short-term intelligence-enhancing benefits, as far as I can see.

  29. #29
    Divided by 0 MoonDance's Avatar
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    Default Re: No evidence oily fish has health benefits

    Hmm, maybe I could spout out some of this info to my folks ... not that they'd listen to me, cos they 'love' fish. Pfft, they love it so much they eat it.
    I hate it when I'm studying and a velociraptor throws bananas on me.

  30. #30
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: 'Free range' eggs, dioxin, cancer, lindane, protein and flame retardants

    There are some speculation that all of the unwanted side effects of eating meat and other animal products don't come from the animal products themselves, but from the way they are processed.

    There are many articles out there linking serious health problems to the actual protein or fat (or even B12) in animal products, not the the processing of the meat etc.. To make relevant studies easy to find (many health professionals are visiting this forum), I think it's a good idea to collect studies about health problems with the consumption of animal fat/protein etc. in one thread, so I just merged a couple of threads.

    Here's another study:
    Meat, fish protein linked to women's bowel disease

    "Women who consumed the most protein were at more than triple the risk of being diagnosed with IBD, the researchers found; animal protein accounted for most of the risk. Risk was specifically associated with high intake of meat and fish, but not with dairy products or eggs", according to that article.

    Two disclaimers: There may of course be studies on people consuming animal protein where the processing plays part of it, even if the processing isn't mentioned.
    And there may be be articles reporting health problems associated with consuming processed animal products, where the reason for the heath problems actually is the animal product itself, and not the actual processing of it.
    Last edited by Korn; Nov 19th, 2011 at 02:30 PM. Reason: Moved from another thread
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  31. #31
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish Can't Scream - a long one

    MERCURY AND OTHER TOXIC METALS HARM BRAIN
    In reality the high mercury levels in fish cause memory and mental function loss. "Symptoms of amnesic shellfish poisoning include possible permanent short-term memory loss." * The cultures eating the most fish (Inuit) have the lowest life expectancy of any group surviving to adulthood, while the Japanese who eat high amounts of fish have as their number 1 cause of death fish correlated stomach cancer. Toxins in fish include selenium, chromium, lead, arsenic, pcb's, pbb's, pvc's and every other nonbiodegradable toxin which is 100 to 1000 times more concentrated in the flesh of fish than in the water. (Rachel Carson's The Silent Spring dealt with among other things the massive loss of bird and fish life from DDT. Fish is the antibrain food as fruitarian and vegetarian geniuses DaVinci, Einstein, Ramanujan, Mary Shelley and others can attest. Linus Pauling, only person to win a Nobel Prize both for peace and his discovery of 6 elements, has written that an orthmolecule is a fruit molecule. They are the most similar to the neural transmitters in the brain. There is no vitamin C (speeds flow of nerve signals across synapses) in fish or animal flesh or in animal products.) The EPA issued 3500 warnings against fish consumption in one year alone. Arsenic poisoning (arsenic from the oceans is concentrated in the flesh of fishes) creates lesions and warts on the hands.
    And this is apparently how it happens (according to a non-vegan source, as you can tell




    (From How Mercury Gets Into Fish We Eat Discovered By Researchers From Hebrew University)
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  32. #32
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish Can't Scream - a long one

    Yum, mercury - my favourite.

  33. #33
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish Can't Scream - a long one

    Blimey that was a long one, as the actress said to the bishop!

    Lots of interesting stuff in it though - many thanks for taking the time to post it Vegan1969

    Purely for the sake of being pedantic ..

    I would imagine that the Hebrew University did not produce the diagram in Korns post suggesting that people can eat any 'unlimited' Oysters any more than, and for the same reason that, they would not have suggested eating unlimited bacon sandwhiches.

    The buddhism and 'karmic consequences' bits; As predicted by the buddha (that his teachings would become corrupted after his death) the vast majority of modern day buddhists would (it seems) find an excuse to actualy "eat the flesh of their own dear children" (as the buddha allegoricaly described the feeling that buddhists should have about eating ANY sentient being) rather than be vegetarian.

    The buddha also named three 'contemplations' that lead directly to madness; One of those was the contemplation of karma in the context of trying to work out, with any precision, the past causes of current effects and/or the future effects of current causes.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  34. #34

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    Default Re: Fish Can't Scream - a long one

    Great post!

    I've been reading it a few times and read it out to a few people now as well. I'm now looking at the links so I can bombard people with it on my Facebook (mostly just my family and close friends), I think I'm driving everyone nuts lately with all the research info I'm finding on this forum and I'm always generous is sharing what I know . I'm loving all this information though!

  35. #35
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    From http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/a...ethings-fishy:

    Notice anything fishy lately? With many Americans giving up some forms of meat during the 40-day period of Lent, fast food companies have been ramping up advertising campaigns and launching brand new menus centered on fish.
    This year, consumers are being reeled in by nearly a dozen heavily promoted fish and shellfish options, including the new McDonald’s Filet-O-Fish with Old Bay seasoning, Burger King Big Fish Sandwich, Wendy’s Premium Cod Fillet Sandwich, and Popeyes Seafood Mardi Gras. McDonald’s has reported that25 percent of the entire year’s Filet-O-Fish sales occur during this six-week period.
    And fast food restaurants aren’t the only ones reporting a growing trend in fish sales. Seafood Business Magazine recently reported that during the first week of Lent alone, salmon sales jump by 30 percent, while cod sales rise by 60 percent.
    Unfortunately, many of these advertisements inaccurately portray fish as a health food that can benefit both heart and brain health. In reality, the fast food and fish industries are baiting consumers with myths.
    Here are four facts you may not know about fish:

    1. Fish is high in cholesterol.
    Touted as a health food, fish has a reputation for being heart-healthy. People who opt for fish to try to protect their hearts might not realize that fish is often high in cholesterol.
    While a 3-ounce T-bone steak contains 70 milligrams of cholesterol, three ounces of shrimp contain 161 milligrams. Numerous studies have shown that dietary cholesterol consumption corresponds with an increased risk for artery blockage.
    The good news is that by eliminating foods that contain cholesterol, like fish, and opting for naturally cholesterol-free plant foods, people can reduce both their cholesterol levels and their risk of heart disease. Research has shown that every 1 percent reduction in cholesterol can reduce heart disease risk by 2 percent.
    2. Most of the fat in fish is not heart-healthy fat.
    While fish does contain omega-3 fats, most of the fat in fish is not heart healthy. Between 15 and 30 percent of the fat in fish is actually saturated fat, which stimulates the liver to produce more cholesterol. High-fat foods are associated with poor heart health outcomes.
    Fish is often celebrated for being low in fat, but this is often not the case: 52 percent of the calories in Chinook salmon come from fat. Plant foods, on the other hand, are often naturally low in fat. Only 2 percent of the calories in rice and 4 percent of the calories in beans come from fat. Research has shown that diets low in fat are best for preventing heart disease.
    In 1990, Dean Ornish, M.D., demonstrated that a low-fat vegetarian diet is capable of reversing heart disease. He put patients with heart disease on a low-fat, plant-based diet, and in one year, 82 percent showed a measurable reversal of their coronary artery blockages.
    3. Supplementing with fish oil may do more harm than good.
    In recent years, fish oil has been hailed as a miracle cure for everything from heart disease to dementia. Many people supplement with fish oil to increase their intake of omega-3 fatty acids, which are important for maintaining cellular function. Unfortunately, studies have shown that most of the health claims associated with fish oil may be unfounded.
    A comprehensive Journal of the American Medical Association analysis involving 20 studies and more than 68,000 patients showed no link between fish oil and heart health. Similarly, a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine reported that patients who supplemented with fish oil did not reduce their risk of heart disease.
    Additionally, recent reports indicate no association between fish oil supplementation and the prevention or improvement of dementia symptoms. Research has even shown that omega-3 supplements may increase diabetesand prostate cancer risk. Fortunately, many plant foods contain alpha-linolenic acid or ALA, which is the only essential omega-3 fatty acid. Excellent sources of ALA include walnuts, soybeans, leafy greens, flaxseed, avocado, and broccoli.
    By eating a diet rich in these foods, people can reap all the benefits of omega-3 fatty acids without any of the side effects associated with fish consumption. Research has even shown that women who follow vegan diets have higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids in their blood than those who consume diets rich in fish, meat, and dairy.
    4. Fish are full of pollutants.
    Because fish and shellfish live in increasingly polluted environments, toxins from the water accumulate in their bodies. Studies have shown that most of the fish throughout the world contain dangerously high levels of mercury.
    Exposure to mercury, which is a toxic metal, has serious health consequences, including increased risk for cancer, heart disease, and even death. A recent study revealed a link between mercury exposure and diabetes. Among nearly 3,000 participants, those who consumed the most mercury over an 18-year period had a 65 percent greater risk for developing diabetes.
    Fish also contain unsafe levels of polychlorinated biphenyls, which are dangerous chemicals that have been linked to neurological problems and birth defects in babies who have been exposed. A plant-based diet automatically reduces exposure to these toxins.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  36. #36

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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Korn, your link did not work for me.

    This one works:

    http://www.pcrm.org/health/reports/a...methings-fishy

  37. #37

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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Fish contain more protein than meat. It helpful to control our heart and kidney system. No doubt fish is good for our health. Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth. Overall we can say fish is both beneficial for animals as well as plant.
    Last edited by LucyPevensie; Mar 24th, 2015 at 09:05 AM.

  38. #38
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Quote LucyPevensie View Post
    Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth.
    Fish is absolutely essential for plant growth. Yes

    That is why plants couldn't grow on dry land untill after fish fertiliser using humans had evolved.

    Other possibilities include:

    1. Fish is not essential for plant growth.

    and/or ...

    2. The belief that fish is essential for plant growth points in the exact opposite direction of fish being good for the brain.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  39. #39

    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Quote Clueless Git View Post
    Fish is absolutely essential for plant growth. Yes

    That is why plants couldn't grow on dry land untill after fish fertiliser using humans had evolved.

    Other possibilities include:

    1. Fish is not essential for plant growth.

    and/or ...

    2. The belief that fish is essential for plant growth points in the exact opposite direction of fish being good for the brain.
    Now I know why I hang round with you

  40. #40

    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Quote LucyPevensie View Post
    Fish is contain more protein than meat. It helpful to control our heart and kidney system. No doubt fish is good for our health. Beside it we use fish as the best organic fertilizer as it gives all minerals needed by soil which is essential for plant growth. Overall we can say fish is both beneficial for animals as well as plant.
    I have been growing an all veganic garden for the last four years. No "organic fish matter" needed. Fish belong in water, not soil.

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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Dear Clueless Git , You are agree with my point that you have written fish is essential for plant growth. But again you have written that fish is not necessary for plant growth in another point. So, what you want to say actually, is it depend upon condition of soil or anything else? Just write it clearly.

  42. #42
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Quote LucyPevensie View Post
    Dear Clueless Git , You are agree with my point that you have written fish is essential for plant growth. But again you have written that fish is not necessary for plant growth in another point. So, what you want to say actually, is it depend upon condition of soil or anything else? Just write it clearly.
    Okey dokey, I'll say it more clearly m'dearie

    Land plants evolved, survived and thrived for billions of years without people feeding them fish.

    Land plants still survive and thrive in many fish free areas of the world.

    Ipso de facto, Fish is NOT essential to plant growth.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

  43. #43
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Clueless Git was just being sarcastic, Lucy. Obviously fish isn't essential for plant growth as plants grow without it.

    If vegans garden or farm, they avoid the use of animal products. Here's a website dedicated to vegan and organic cultivation http://veganorganic.net/

  44. #44
    Bad Buddhist Clueless Git's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fish: health benefits?

    Quote harpy View Post
    Clueless Git was just being sarcastic, Lucy.
    "Parodying omni-think" would be a kinder term?

    Apologies Lucy, wasn't having a pop at you.

    Was just having a pop at the part of omni-think that likes to turn the food chain upside down and throw the evolution of life into reverse.
    All done in the best possible taste ...

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