Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?

[Korn]

I think there some misunderstandings are derived from terms like 'a vegan diet' or a 'non-vegan diet', because there are no such thing as one vegan diet or one non-vegan diet.

Some people go vegan in a situation where they don't feel happy with their health or what they eat. I'll use B12 as an example (surprise! ). These people may come from a background of both eating a lot of meat and dairy products AND supplements (circa 50% of non-vegans take some kind of food supplementation). They may have very high B12 levels, which are associated with a number of health issuesOr: they may come from a background of not eating enough proper food, possibly combined with a high intake of sugar, coffee, tobacco, maybe alcohol - and have very low B12 levels before they go vegan. If they are B12 deficient before they go vegan, normal B12 supplementation may not do the trick for them - they need 'medical amounts' of B12.

A traditional, non-vegan diet is normally lower than a balanced vegan diet in a lot of nutrients, like folate, vitamin C, phytochemicals etc. According to USDA, the average American diet is deficient in calcium, iodine, vitamin C, vitamin E, fiber, folate, and magnesium (40% of non.vegans also have low B12 levels according to several studies). According to this information, a person jumping straight from a traditional American diet to eating vegan food, should pay a little attention to - and maybe try to find out - what his nutritional levels are before going vegan, and try to adjust and improve his levels by eating food that contain healthy amounts of whatever he is missing.


Since animals eaten by meat eaters normally live on a lot of supplements, new vegans should also pay attention to what supplements he won't get anymore because he stops eating them via eg. calcium fortified milk or meat from cow's grassing on cobalt-fortified soil. There are some areas in the world where the soil is poor in certain nutrients, and these nutrients are therefore added directly or indirectly to whatever factory animals in these areas eat. Since both vegans and non-vegans today often eat a lot of food from other areas than where they live, they may get eg. selenium in their diet even if the local soil is selenium deficient. If not, one can find out what plants that contain selenium (eg. Brazil nuts) and eat a little more of these, which IMO is a more reliable solution than eating pills.

There are vitamins and minerals that humans get from meat and dairy, and are rare or humanly indigestible from plant sources.

I see it in a slightly different way: there are some nutrients non-vegans need to pay extra attention to, and there are some nutrients vegans need to pay extra attention to. The calcium in cow's milk comes from plants the cows have been eating. Meat eating animals are almost exclusively eating - plant eaters, who have gotten their nutrients from plants!

In general, I'd be more worried if a person who were living on a balanced plant based diet would decide to go back to eat traditional, non-vegan food.

I'm stressing this because meat eaters and new vegans some times have a tendency of believing that vegans have to pay attention to what they eat, while non-vegans don't: this is a very common myth. Again, to use the good old B12-molecule as an example: vegans need to be more worried about B12 deficiency than non-vegans, because while members of both groups may be equally exposed to a number of B12 killers, meat eaters consume more B12 than vegans, and since both groups live in a very B12-unfriendly world, meat eaters are less likely to become deficient.

The vitamins (and EFA's) most commonly lacking in a vegan diet are:

I'd rather say that this is a list of nutrients that some vegans may need to pay attention to. The vegan diet as such doesn't eg. lack zinc: according to vegansociety.com, 'diets of vegan and non-vegan children often contain similar amounts of zinc, though zinc from plant foods is less well absorbed as they contain phytate, which interferes with zinc absorption'. Nevertheless, there may be vegans who have low zinc levels (if they don't eat plants containing zinc: Look here. Or here. Or here... ) (Zinc supplements may be needed for young vegan children whose diet is based on high-phytate cereals and legumes, again - according to The Vegan Society.

[herbwormwood]

Iodine, if living in a country where salt is not iodised or low idodine levels in soil;
vitamin D, if living far from equator or don't go outside much;
vitamin B12.
The last 2 are often present in fortified foods.
Iodine is in sea vegetables but many people don't eat these.
On the whole a healthy vegan diet will contain more vitamins and minerals than an average meat eater diet, because fruit and veg contains lots of vitamins and minerals, bar these 3.

[Soul Rebel]

Does anyone know a cereal besides cheerios that contains both B12 & D? I have to mix two different brands from my local coop to get both.

[herbwormwood]

Do you care if the vitamin D is from a vegan source? If its vegan it should say D2. D3 isn't vegan. Vitamin D is best absorbed from fatty foods like margarine and soya milk, as its a fat-soluble vitamin.

[eve]

The vitamins (and EFA's) most commonly lacking in a vegan diet are:
(1) Vitamin B-12
(2) Vitamin D - if not living in a place close to the equator or not getting sufficient exposure to sunlight
(3) DHA/EPA
(4) Zinc
(5) Selenium
(6) Iodine (in some countries)
Hope this is helpful.
Best, Josh

Somehow I take exception to this posting by j&k, because I am not short of any of those items, and have been a vegan for many years.

All are provided in my diet and not from supplements. For selenium, eg, I rely on the 4 or 5 brazil nuts I have each day, as for vit D, there's plenty of sunshine where I live, zinc from other nuts and seeds etc, and I add a dessertspoon of flaxseed oil to my breakfast bowl of fruit and tahini. But the thing is, a combination of all the items in a vegan diet produces a good balance. Can't help noticing that some of my non-vegan friends suffer from B12 deficiency, and other poor conditions, but sadly they absolutely believe they must drink milk every day and eat meat and fish.

[j&k]

Eve, are you serious? I am afraid I do not understand why you take offense to my messsage. The fact that you are not deficient any of those nutrients has little bearing on the fact that they are the nutrients that "commonly" show up as deficiencies in vegans. I answered a specific question -- no more, no less. I think you are reading far more into the post than is there.

You do have me curious, though. If you do not take any supplements, where do you get your B-12? Remember, a fortified food would be essentially the same as taking a supplement. Just curious.

Best.
Josh

[Korn]

I think Eve's response brings up something very important. The initial post suggested that "non-vegans don't have to think about those minerals and vitamins much" - I don't know what Scott Hughes thinks, but many new vegans and meat eaters falsely believe that getting enough nutrients is more of a problem when eating a varied vegan food than when eating a standard diet. When Scott writes that there are vitamins and minerals that humans get from meat and dairy, that 'are rare or humanly indigestible from plant sources' he is (unintentionally) boosting the myth that vegans have a nutrient problem while non-vegans don't. While we know that a number of vegans get low B12 levels if not eating fortified foods/supplements, this happens to 40% of non-vegans too (look here - and here ), but regarding other nutrients, non-vegans are more deficient than vegans.

The fact that you are not deficient any of those nutrients has little bearing on the fact that they are the nutrients that "commonly" show up as deficiencies in vegans.

Talking about what is 'common' is all based on what these vegans know about diet and nutrition - and if they live according to what they know, but the topic of this thread is what vegans need. Of course we should help people to know what they need to be aware of, but also let people know that people who eat animals need to be aware of at least as many nutrients as vegans.

The fact is that unless we all (vegans and non-vegans) continuously monitor our nutrient levels by taking blood tests, we'll probably often be low in a few nutrients. Based on ethics, I'm all for promoting a vegan diet - but for health, I'm all for promoting a healthy, balanced, varied diet which may be very different from a diet that is just vegan.

Your list is probably correct, j&k, these are probably the 6 nutrients that vegans are low in, if they are low in any nutrients. A similar list for meat eaters could be (and have been) made, but neither of these lists mean that all vegans lack these nutrients, or that all non-vegans lack the nutrients that's on the Top 5 or Top 10 or Top 20 list of nutrients most commonly lacking in non-vegan vegan diet.

If I remember right, Eve has been a vegan for circa 40 years, and I remember her mentioning earlier that she has been taking B complex/B12 - if I remember right, she's also over 50, and it's commonly suggested that all people over 50 (vegans or not) should to take B12 - some people even suggest that all people always should take B12 regardless of age. Eve wrote that all here nutrients are provided in her diet and not from supplements, but in another post she mentioned that B12 was an exception, so Eve's comments above is probably just a slip of the mind, at least when it comes to B12.

Scott - where have you heard about nutrients that are rare or humanly indigestible from plant sources? And - how do you think plant eating animals get the same nutrients? You don't have to answer, but you made me curious!

If you don't want to bother with blood tests or spend time on reading about nutrition, I'm sure j&k's list is pretty good as a reference - just remember that you don't have to take all these things, and that how you live and what you eat (and don't) is normally more important than which pills you take...!

[j&k]

I'd say that was rather well put. If somebody asked me to make a list of the most commonly missed nutrients in a meat-eaters diet, the list would be much longer, and would include many of the same nutrients:

e.g
(1) Vitamin B-12
(2) Vitamin D
(3) Folic Acid
(4) Mixed Carotenoids
(5) Vitamin K
(6) Vitamin E
(7) Vitamin B-6
(8) Zinc

The list could go on too.

Best,
Josh

[Seaside]

Based on ethics, I'm all for promoting a vegan diet - but for health, I'm all for promoting a healthy, balanced, varied diet which may be very different from a diet that is just vegan.

To me these are one and the same.

[ScottHughes]

I'm not suggesting that vegan's have to watch their diet more than meat eaters. I'm saying the obvious: that vegans have to watch their diet differently than meat eaters. Plant foods tend to have different vitamin make-ups than meat and dairy foods.

I don't care what vitamins and minerals meat-eaters might be deficient in, because I'm not a meat-eater.

I'm not saying one diet is healthier than the other. I'm saying the different diets are unique, and thus have unique concerns related to them.

I just wanted to know what vitamins and minerals need my focus as a vegan.

Scott - where have you heard about nutrients that are rare or humanly indigestible from plant sources? And - how do you think plant eating animals get the same nutrients? You don't have to answer, but you made me curious!

I don't remember which is why I had to start the thread. I believe certain forms of omega-3 fatty acids are problematic, because they can't be directly digested from plants, but need to be taken as a supplement or created in the body through the other fatty acids. (Ground flaxseed can provide the needed fatty acids, I remember reading.) Sorry, I can't be more specific.

[Korn]

To me these are one and the same.

I'm only saying that vegan food doesn't have to be varied, balanced and healthy: there's a lot of processed, semi-synthetic, over-sweetened food out there that doesn't contain much nutrients: it's not fresh, not organic etc... one may eat white pasta with canned tomato sauce every day and still be a vegan!

[eve]

Hi Korn, yes I did used to take B12 supplement, and once took multivitamins, but then, after a careful reading of The China Study, I decided to stop supplements - though I know that the good doctor did suggest B12 could be beneficial not only to vegans but to omnivores. I get my blood tested for various things each year, and so far suffer no deficiencies. j&k asks where I get B12 from - don't our bodies manufacture it for us? I must say that friends of mine, in my age group, ie late 70s, are all meat eaters and some of them suffer B12 deficiency, some have osteoporosis, all have diabetes #2, and many other conditions for which they take medications. And they all look years older than me. I sincerely believe that the vegan lifestyle is conducive to good health, and although I was diagnosed with diabetes #2 (in my genes), it is perfectly under control and no medications necessary.

[Seaside]

j&k asks where I get B12 from - don't our bodies manufacture it for us?

That's what I've read. As long as people haven't destroyed the beneficial bacteria that do this for them by taking antibiotics or doing other harmful things that kill them.

[Korn]

I've just made a new thread about it here:
Does a healthy body manufacture B12?

[rodt]

Can anyone out there recommend any type of nutritional supplement that is an all-in-one formula?

Thanks, rod

[Mahk]

In my kitchen I have a container of Naturade brand Total Soy Meal Replacement (French Vanilla). 150 calories of this powder provides 13g protein and 35% of "Daily Value" needs (no longer "RDA"?) of vitamin B12 (the only vitamin I actively seek out) as well as many other vitamins I feel I get plenty of anyway in my vegan diet. The soy milk I mix it with adds even more protein, etc. The ingredients are long but end in "no egg, dairy, or animal derivatives". I didn't buy it from this site, and know nothing about them, but here is a detailed description:http://www.luckyvitamin.com/079911023064.html#
I bought it in a store that I can't recall. It tastes pretty good.

[eve]

rodt and mahk - do you ever think of eating vegies, fruit, and nuts? To me they comprise the best nutrition around.

[Mahk]

eve, I don't live on this stuff. My diet is 95% whole foods like the ones you mention. These "meal replacement" foods are good because they are quick and easy to prepare, yet nutrtionally sound (at least if taken only on occasion). My current belief is that an adequate vitamin B12 intake from a purely non-fortified vegan diet is nearly impossible. Do you disagree?

[Bic]

"Mahk" I looked up that supplement and can't seem to find a nutrional information chart for it. Do you have any idea where I could find one?

And I too take supplements on occassion, mostly when I know I'm going to be missing a meal for whatever reason ("eating" out with friends, travelling for long period of time, etc.)

[Mahk]

Bic, Here ya go (just scroll down a little and you'll see it):

http://www.vitacost.com/NaturadeTota...-FrenchVanilla

[Again, for info only, I know nothing about this vendor, in fact they seem to not have it in stock, or that flavor is no longer made?]

Naturade's own, less detailed website is:

http://www.naturade.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=20

[Bic]

Thanks. That's quite a list of nutrients it has. I think I'll get some to replace the supplement I currently use.

[Korn]

My current belief is that an adequate vitamin B12 intake from a purely non-fortified vegan diet is nearly impossible. Do you disagree?

The problem doesn't seem to be the vegan diet as such, but our (personal and global) lifestyle, but since we have many threads and several subforums about B12 already, I won't go any further than saying that I disagree (for a change)...

[Mahk]

Korn, by "lifestyle" do you mean washing our vegetables?

Also, at the store the other day I saw the largest assortment of nori and other sea vegetables that I have ever seen: 6. I read the nutritional facts on the back of each one and was surprised that one claimed 12 % B12 (daily value)! I can't find it now, but I remember that some other forum member says sea vegetables are a no-no for vegans because of some animal life (shrimp?) that get caught in the netting process. At least I think that was the concern, I'm not sure.

[Korn]

Korn, by "lifestyle" do you mean washing our vegetables?

I mean all the things humans do today that will affect B12 availability and absorption. Take a look in the B12 sections - you could eg. start here: 50 ways to develop B 12 deficiency, but there are many other threads about this topic too.

[Windfall]

Im just curious, i dont take any, but am thinking that maybe i should?
any ideas?

[Roxy]

Around the time that I donate blood (for about a week before), I take a liquid iron supplement.

Other than that, I only take vitamin C and liquid ecinacea when I feel like I'm getting sick.

Oh and it's no secret that I've been having trouble sleeping lately, so I've done some research and yesterday I went out and bought some Valerian.

[harpy]

I take the Vegan Society's supplement, or another B12 supplement, every day or so. And a tsp of flax oil or hemp oil most days.

[cobweb]

*ahem* here's the list :

Mega-Dose B vits with vitamin C (for anxiety/stress)
Chromium (to balance blood sugar level)
Kelp (not every day but enough to ensure i'm getting my iodine)
Agnus Castus (for balancing hormones - may stop using this now as am back on the Pill )
Omega Oils (various, sometimes Udos, sometimes flax oil, at the moment capsules from veganstore)
Luffa for Hayfever
and
Child Essence when I feel like a sad child
Rescue Remedy as and when needed
Echinacea when I feel susceptible to illness

[Chanterelle]

I take a daily (vegan) multivitamin, and a B-12 sublingual tab a few times a week. I also use flax oil as a salad dressing, for the omega-6. People keep asking me if, as a vegan, I need to take a lot of vitamins. Isn't that rather strange, considering most if not all vitamins are found in plant foods?

[cobweb]

^ totally agree, i don't think any vegan eating a *healthy, well-balanced diet* necessarily needs any supplements, but some people, vegan or otherwise, have a problem utilising/making enough/storing vitamins/minerals, and some of course have illnesses which could affect their bodies stores.

[Chanterelle]

Of course, but that's not because they are vegan! There's also the issue of modern food processing stripping away naturally occurring nutrients, which is another problem entirely... it's just a funny thing, most people don't seem to realize that there's really not much good nutrition in meat and dairy.

[cobweb]

^ no, that's my point Chanterelle, if anything vegans quite possibly need less in the way of supplements but are more health-aware so paradoxically maybe more inclined to take them.

[Chanterelle]

...and the person who lives on diet soda and cheeseburgers can't be bothered to take any supplements at all! The world is upside down!

[Maisiepaisie]

For years I refused to take supplements as I didn't want to admit that a vegan diet can be anything less than perfectly adequate. However I now admit that my diet isn't always perfect I feel loads better since I started taking supplements. I take iron, E400, agnus castus, Co Q10 and St Johns wort. I think theres a few more I ought to get as well.

[BlackCats]

Every Friday I take a vitamin B12 tablet and 2 kelp tablets just in case I didn't get enough during the week.

I also take a multivitamin with iron if I'm feeling a bit run down like the other day when I noticed white flecks on my fingernails.

My diet isn't always that good so I take some supplements. But I think my diet was horrendous before I turned vegan so I feel much more nutritionally aware now.

I think vegans will tend to be much more nutritionally aware than meateaters because people are always asking us stupid questions about protein/ iron etc.

CW - do you rattle when you walk with all those tablets?

[frank language]

For a few years, I stopped all my supplements--mainly because all my money was going into treating my ailing dog--and just recently started with a full array of nutrient supplements again. I don't know if it makes me healthier, but I was scared into starting the calcium/magnesium again, and I had been taking an iron supplement even when I stopped everything else.

My current dog does even better than I do: he gets a multi, plus chlorella and flaxseed oil at every meal. He's incredibly healthy-looking; now if I can just start brushing his teeth!

[pudding06]

I take the vegan society tablets too -- when I remember.

My diet is a lot healthier than it was and I did read stephen walsh's plant based nutrition from cover to cover, and the vegan society's supplement is based on his findings.

I def need vitamin d though - cos it looks like were not going to have a summer here this year, lol

nicola

[Stig]

I haven't taken any supplements, actually I lie, I have some iron rarely and that's at that time of the month. Maybe I should start.

[frank language]

...and the person who lives on diet soda and cheeseburgers can't be bothered to take any supplements at all! The world is upside down!

Ever notice how most people who drink diet soda are fat?

[pudding06]

Ever notice how most people who drink diet soda are fat?

thats a chicken and egg thing isnt it

nicola

[Jippia]

I take a vitamin-B complex and vitamin C. I am considering getting a multivitamin tablet, but it is not easy to find them here in the east of the Netherlands. I have always taken multivitamins, even before I was a vegetarian. I try to eat enough fruit and vegetables, whole wheat bread, tahini, nuts and seeds, tofu, etc, but especially on days on which I do not have to work I tend to miss out on the fruit. I have never taken supplements instead of trying to eat healthy (as healthy as omni eating can be), but really as supplements. Now that I am vegan I try to use fortified foods as abundant as I can afford. Here in the Netherlands there are two brands that I know of have supplements suitable for vegans. I am not sure whether the B complex I am taking right now is suitable for vegans, as it is a store brand, but I will use it until the jar is empty.

Mirjam

[littles]

What about vitamin A and Iodine? They are essential and you probably get enough vitamin A but it's important to ensure that you don't get too much vitamin A right?

[veggiemaya]

I am a fairly new vegan and am concerned about the issue of getting enough B12. I have read that a sublingual supplement is a good way to go, maybe because of easier absorption? does anyone take this form?

[auntierozzi]

I took the vegan society multi-vit. every day for a year and a half and after my blood tests came back my GP advised me to stop taking them. If you make sure that you get B12 in fortified foods and eat well then you should be fine.

[veggiemaya]

thats a chicken and egg thing isnt it

nicola

haha...i think that is because most of the time those people are also eating a big mac and fries with it and think that the "diet" soda will negate the ridiculous amount of fats in the food. also, i tend to think that the chemicals and preservatives in all of those foods, not to mention in anything "diet", can wind up having an adverse effect when they are eaten in excess.

[veggiemaya]

...and the person who lives on diet soda and cheeseburgers can't be bothered to take any supplements at all! The world is upside down!

yes, and the most ridiculous part about it is that those are the same people that think WE are going to be unhealthy and are odd for choosing to be vegan. once again...upside down for sure!

[Healthy]

What cracks me up is all the people who ask us how we get our protein, but no one asks an omni-pizza-muncher how they get their Vitamin C!

[Aurore]

lol, that is so true !
i don't think you necessarily need to take supplements, but if you do, just take them.
i was for a while taking iron supplements. now i've stopped them but to make sure i don't need to take them again i take some spirulina (which gives me also the B12 i need and other vitamins), along with evening primerose and borrachio oils, those two helping me regulate my hormones.
i also take magnesium and vitamin C tablets because i'm between exams now and need some "boost".

[steven1222]

They are essential and you probably get enough vitamin A but it's important to ensure that you don't get too much vitamin A right?

Vegans do not need to worry about getting too much vitamin A because only the pre-formed version found in and derived from animal products is toxic.

[veggiemaya]

lol, that is so true !
i don't think you necessarily need to take supplements, but if you do, just take them.
i was for a while taking iron supplements. now i've stopped them but to make sure i don't need to take them again i take some spirulina (which gives me also the B12 i need and other vitamins), along with evening primerose and borrachio oils, those two helping me regulate my hormones.
i also take magnesium and vitamin C tablets because i'm between exams now and need some "boost".

in what form do you get the spirulina? i have been snacking a little bit on these carob spirulina energy chunks. they also have sesame, pumpkin, and flax seeds..very yummy!! but i dont want to rely on that as my only source because i am also very conscious of my weight and too much of any snack may just put on the lbs. also, do you know how much spirulina i would need to have in order to not need a B12 supp? thanks!