I couldn't take the taste or smell of Veg1. It made me gag, and I couldn't keep it down. Maybe I got an icky batch? I don't know if I'll try ordering again to see. The regimen I outlined above seems to work well enough.
Most people who have a balanced diet don't need any supplements. In fact too much of certain vitamins and minerals can make you ill. There is a big supplements industry out there who would like to convince everyone that supplements "boost" health when in fact all a supplement will do is correct a deficiency. If you have a well balanced diet then I would not consider supplementation unless your physician prescribes this. The only possible exception may be vitamin B12 which is available from soil-borne bacteria and which due to the western obsession with cleanliness may be deficient in a vegan diet. I take regular supplementation of vitamin B12 plus alfaccalcidol and calcium, but this is because I have a pre-existing medical condition which means I need to. Otherwise I wouldn't.
“You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.”
As well as vitamin B12 I think there is a good case for vitamin D supplementation, at least in the winter months and for those that have dark skin and/or don't spend much time outside - there is some discussion here http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyl...vitamin-d.aspx but I've read it's true of the population generally, not just vegans. ETA Oh, alphacalcidol which you mention seems to be a form of vitamin D?
Most people who have a balanced diet don't need any supplements.
Lots of people (vegans and non-vegans) have low B12 levels - even on a balanced diet, and vit D is important for people in Northern areas (in the darkest months)...
I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.
As well as vitamin B12 I think there is a good case for vitamin D supplementation, at least in the winter months and for those that have dark skin and/or don't spend much time outside - there is some discussion here http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyl...vitamin-d.aspx but I've read it's true of the population generally, not just vegans. ETA Oh, alphacalcidol which you mention seems to be a form of vitamin D?
I agree that vitamin D is also important in the winter for postmenopausal women and those with darker skins. As far as I am aware there is little evidence for the efficacy of supplementation in lighter skinned males. The Alfacalcidol is a synthesised vitamin D analogue which bypasses the normal regulatory process of the kidneys. I have a problem with Vitamin D absorption due to hyperparathyroidism.
“You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.”
I think there is some evidence that vitamin D supplementation may be beneficial for other groups. For example, vitamin D seems to be necessariy for calcium absorption so if they don't get enough vitamin D in winter then children and young women (in particular) might need a supplement for bone health, as well as the groups you mention. I believe there are also studies tentatively linking vitamin D levels (not supplementation) to cancer incidence which is one reason the advice to use sunblock whenever you're in the sun has been questioned (some people think you should have a few minutes' unprotected exposure to the sun).
I'm afraid I don't have time to do much digging around at the moment but this article http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamind.asp references some peer-reviewed studies about the calcium absorption thing I think.
I'm afraid I don't have time to do much digging around at the moment but...
If you try their search engine, you'll see that there are quite a few references to vitamin D-studies on sites like sciencedaily.com and the somewhat opinionated naturalnews.com.
I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.
I am currently working on a dissertation on diet and supplementation of vegetarianis/vegans. I would like to know if any people here take supplements. If you do/do not then i would like to ask why you do and where you got the information about the supplements. If anyone is interested please e-mail and let me know what your diet is Veggie/vegan, what supplements you take, why you take them and where you get your diet information from.
you might want to consider setting up a survey on www.surveymonkey.com, takes about 10 minutes and makes it easier for people to answer your questions....
I find this new blog by Ginny Marissa to be very enlightening and informative. She makes some good points about the dangers of falling prey to the idea that veganism is always an ideal diet no matter what and that we shouldn't worry about specific nutrients. The latest science shows that we should, but that it's still pretty easy so ignoring this sound advice is something we'd do at our own peril. Personally I trust the science. It's never let me down so far.I probably was personally slightly deficient in B12 for a while because of well meaning but deeply flawed advice, but now that I'm back on track I can be a better, more vibrant advocate for the animals. Ain't it good news?
"The recommended dose is 25 to 100 micrograms per day".
I've noticed a few things re. sites that recommend much higher daily B12 amounts than anyone else:
• They seem to be involved in promoting the very sad veganoutreach/veganhealth/Jack Norris constellation
• A former VF-member, 'beforewisdom', banned for exactly this kind of spam (he was posting the same stuff repeatedly, promoting the same Jack Norris links over and over again, but didn't really take part in any discussions) pops up on these sites. Hhe must have been promoting Jack Norris' view on B12 hundreds of times - with identical posts copy-pasted into various threads in vegan message boards. Google 'beforewisdom' and eg. veganhealth and see how many matches you get... What he did was the same thing he did at other forums: he posted the same material both in new threads he started (several times), in others threads, and in threads that didn't seem to be about promoting the Jack Norris stuff, but which we soon found out was about promoting JN and his sites. He seemed to be in a hurry to post as many of this posts/threads as possible, because he must have known that we don't want this kind of spam. Then he could - and did - for years (and still do) post on other forums that he had posts removed from our site. He did not mention that he is known for having posted exactly the same stuff dozens/hundreds of times, referring to the same few examples, about some guy (called Axel Hershaft or something similar?) who had a too low B12 level and then took B12 and felt better. 'Beforewisdom' still does that.
• The people who promote these sites here post new threads without checking for new ones, and - for some reason - keep repeating posting links to these sites many times a week/day (until they are banned), and are in some cases members who have been put on moderation, eg. for similar spam, earlier.
•They don't seem to want to post the reasons why they eg. think that one needs 25-100 mcg day, but just leave the discussion if they are asked question - but still keep posting links to the sites after saying that they don't want to discuss the stuff they promote. Are anyone being paid to promote these sites?
Anyway - there are no rules without exceptions. So - why are they spreading the idea that "the recommended dose" is 25-100 mcg B12 per day? Anyone? Josh? The reason I ask is that if these semi-vegans succeed in making people believe that humans need 25-100 mcg B12 daily, the amounts both vegans and non-vegans get per day will appear as even more microscopic then they already are.
Personally I trust the science.
So what's the science behind suggesting 25-100 mcg B12 per day?
Last edited by Korn; Nov 29th, 2010 at 10:30 PM.
I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.
I read all these pages, and I am still a lil confused about b12 and other supplements. I don't have a doctor to visit, so I can't know for sure what I need. But I have been feeling reaaaally tired everyday now. I keep falling asleep, and even after I wake up I don't feel rested. Is that a sign of me needing supplements, or not getting enough calories? Maybe both?
It could be sign of various things, which is why doctors would recommend a blood test. Some people tens to blame everything on B12, but if the B12 levels are fine, you could maybe lack iron, fresh air, exercice and much more, including, of course B12. You mentioned that being vegan is new to you, and some people assume that B12 isn't stored in the body - but it is. It can be stored for years. So if you after just eg. a few weeks feel tired due to low B12, your B12 levels reserves mast have been low before you went vegan. But taking a little B12 doesn't harm...
So what's the science behind suggesting 25-100 mcg B12 per day?
I know it's about homocysteine, but... bump.
The idea that pretty much 100% of the world population gets way too little B12 raises some interesting perspectives, so I look forward to more info about the controversial idea that humans need 25-100 mcg B12 per day....
I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.
I currently take quite a lot of stuff and I'm thinking of cutting down because people tend to say it's not very good taking too many supplements. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Supplements:
Vegan Multivit: once a day (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pag...627&prodid=366)
Omega DHA: once a day
B12: 3 times a week (I also take fortified soy and almond milks)
D2: on days when I don't get enough sunlight (I live in London)
Sea kelp: twice a week (I wonder if I could avoid this by eating sea-weed twice a week?)
I'm pretty sure I get enough calcium as I drink fortified soy/almond-milk and eat loads of almonds too (and my multivit also contains it). I also eat quite a lot of spinach so I'm confident that I get enough iron (and again, the multivit contains iron).
I wonder if I could:
1. Stop taking B12, as I already drink loads of fortified milks and eat yeast extract
2. Stop taking sea kelp, by taking seaweed (although some people don't recommend it)
3. Potentially stop taking the multivit if my diet is complete enough?
Bowie, I'm no expert but I don't see why you really need a multivitamin as you're taking vitamin B12 and vitamin D? A good mixed diet of veg, fruit, grains and so on is probably a better way to get everything else I would have thought.
Hello, I'm Paul. I think this is my first post so I just wanted share with you about what supplements I take and why. I currently take 3 types of vegan supplements from Dr. Joel Fuhrman: 1) Gentle Care, a multivitamin/multimineral that has no harmful vitamins and minerals such as beta carotene, or folic acidhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCuHX...layer_embedded, 2) Osteo Sun Vegan formula (there are two formulas one vegan one nonvegan) for Vitamin D and some calcium, and 3) DHA algae derived Omega 3 long chain.
I think most vegan supplements on the market that include a range of vitamins and minerals can be harmful if they include too much Vitamin A, iron, folic acid and copper. I trust Dr. Fuhrman and it's worth the peace of mind to pay a little more for me. Thanks for listening.
fwiw, I like Jack Norris, Ginny Messina, Brenda Davis and Vesanto Melina all of whom recommend Vitamin B-12 supplements which I take rather than testing MMA levels. In other vegan forums, I have encountered red herrings about the general populations risk of B-12 deficiency which is concentrated in the elderly and other specific groups and results from malabsorption rather than malnutrition, i.e. they don't absorb well what b-12 they eat which is a different risk than not having the vitamin present at all in whole foods. Similar risk, different causes and different solutions. For me as a vegan it's either supplement or MMA test. The risks are to great to do otherwise.
I currently take quite a lot of stuff and I'm thinking of cutting down because people tend to say it's not very good taking too many supplements. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Supplements:
Vegan Multivit: once a day (http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/pag...627&prodid=366)
Omega DHA: once a day
B12: 3 times a week (I also take fortified soy and almond milks)
D2: on days when I don't get enough sunlight (I live in London)
Sea kelp: twice a week (I wonder if I could avoid this by eating sea-weed twice a week?)
I'm pretty sure I get enough calcium as I drink fortified soy/almond-milk and eat loads of almonds too (and my multivit also contains it). I also eat quite a lot of spinach so I'm confident that I get enough iron (and again, the multivit contains iron).
I wonder if I could:
1. Stop taking B12, as I already drink loads of fortified milks and eat yeast extract
2. Stop taking sea kelp, by taking seaweed (although some people don't recommend it)
3. Potentially stop taking the multivit if my diet is complete enough?
What do you all think?
when it comes to sea vegetables less is more. never take hijiki as it's been linked as an arsenic sponge. personally I like a little dulse flakes on my salad. stop taking a multivitamin/multimineral? why? because relying on whole foods is natural/trendy??? I think eating a good vegan multivitimin multimineral is a good insurance policy in case you don't absorb or can't get all of the vitamins and nutrients you need. I agree there are risks to supplements. But that's where understanding the risks and reading labels comes in. After all, there are risks to eating whole foods too, are there not?
what risks to eating whole foods? risks of contamination, risks of malabsorption, risks of mislabeling (conventional for organic, gmo vs. non-gmo). One can get too jaded. But as long as one has a flexible healthy-skeptical mindset, you have the tools to negotiate what's best for you and your family.
One reason I'm not mad about using multivitamins all the time is that there is some evidence suggesting that they sometimes do more harm than good (e.g. http://www.health.harvard.edu/press_...nd-cancer-risk). However the evidence is pretty patchy so I think one just has to read it and decide for oneself.
I do sometimes take Veg-1, a supplement with a limited set of vitamins that the Vegan Society here produces. I don't think I'd bother with it if I was taking B12 and vitamin D supplements already, though.
Thanks for the warm welcome. I took a look at the Harvard reference, thanks. It mentions folic acid as the possible culprit and is why I like the Gentle Care for me. It's vegan and no folic acid, no beta carotene. I basically have a vegan board-certified MD reviewing the literature and updating the formula as the science progresses! I do want to take a look at Veg-1 though. Price still matters even though we are vegan. It's still a market. I will follow up. Thanks!!
It doesn't sound you really take a lot, actually to me it sounds really good ... the flax seed, DHA and kelp aren't really synthetic vitamins like a multi would be... and I agree with you that the multi being a good source of iron and calcium, IMO I would stick with everything, including the B12 because you don't want to end up anemic, not saying that all vegans who don't take a multi end up that way, but definitely before giving up the iron and calcium you could always keep track for a few days and make sure you're getting all of recommended amounts of things in your diet....rather than guessing.. the kelp sounds like a good source of iodine too, which is good for the thyroid..
On B-12, it's a little different. we have vegan "authorities" claiming we can absorb B-12 from air and water through water fasting. http://www.rawfoodsupport.com/read.p...e=6#msg-175582 Here was Jack's response. http://jacknorrisrd.com/?p=1391
I also asked Joel Fuhrman, MD who has extensive fasting experience both personally and with patients. His response. " I think treating a deficiency with fasting is insane. I do not fast people who are deficient.
I do know and have seen natural hygienists who were so fanatical that they thought they did not need B12 supplements and watched them become paralyzed or died."
Bottom line. I think minimizing vitamin supplements is laudable and has good science behind it. Just don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. B-12, Vitamin D and a few others that we can benefit from supplements until we can reclaim our soil. Best.
I've started taking a multivitamin and I wanted to take one that has everything I need in it-the only vegan one I could find has:
vitamins A, D, E + C, b1, b2, b6, b12, niacin, pantothenic acid, folic acid, calcium, iron and zinc.
I thought that iodine was in other vitamins, do I actually need it? Is there anything else I should be getting from a vitamin?
I would be more concerned about the quantities of the vitamins it includes, multi-vits tend to have low levels. Also, do you eat/drink any fortified foods like soy milk etc?
"I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
It has over 100% for the RDA for all except calcium. I was really just wondering about iodine, because I'm sure I read an article on the vegan society website saying people need it. I drink soy milk occasionally, but not really often enough to get enough vitamins from it.
It has over 100% for the RDA for all except calcium. I was really just wondering about iodine, because I'm sure I read an article on the vegan society website saying people need it. I drink soy milk occasionally, but not really often enough to get enough vitamins from it.
Soil in the UK is almost depleted of iodine and not all salt is iodised, 'normal people' are supplemented with iodine through iodised animal feed. Just make sure the salt you use is iodised and you should be ok, assuming you cook with salt fairly regularly.
There is a thread here on iodine, the only soya milk that I know of that has any in is M&S own brand. Personally I take the vegan societies Veg1 supplement which has 100% of your RDA of B2, B6, B12, D2, Folic Acid, Iodine & selenium, and I drink soya milk regularly as well
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
I don't actually know if our salt has iodine, and we don't cook with it much... Maybe I should use up the vitamins I have now and then get veg1? I'd heard of it before so I was considering getting it.
I dont think much salt in the UK is Iodised. I choose veg1 cos some supplements have like 10000 times the RDA of some vitamins which can be too much. Veg1 contains just 100% meaning I can get a bit extra from foods like soya milk & fortified marg/cereals/yeast extract without worrying about OD'ing
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
Problem is that 100% of EC RDA B12 is only 1mcg which is considered on the low side and there have been calls to raise it. Personally I take 100mcg daily.
"I don't want to live on this planet any more" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
I take the Veg1 because its on the low side, and I top up with soya milk/margarine, but you do make a very good point though. I remember reading somewhere that we need 300% of the RDA of some vitamins, which makes me think that the RDA should be increased.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing,
Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
hi.
I am always unsure of whether I need to take vitamins, I have taken Veg1 on and off, sometimes I feel i must be getting everything I need from my diet which is pretty good, other times I worry I'm not getting enough of things. What I was wondering is if I decided to take something again does anyone know of something similar to Veg1 which is cheaper and available in Holland and Barrett or health food shops or Co-op?? ( I don't shop in any other supermarkets). Or somewhere online? I did get a multi-vitamin from the Co-op recently and thought it was vegan but later looked at the Vit C they do which is marked as vegan whereas the multi-vit isn't....
I have anxiety and depression so sometimes feel I may as well take vitamins as it couldn't hurt in case I am lacking in anything.
Would appreciate any advice on this.
Can't remember if I have posted a similar thing before...
yo-yo x
... does anyone know of something similar to Veg1 which is cheaper and available in Holland and Barrett
I get the H&B brand 1-a-day vegan multi-vitamin & mineral here its about €6, so in the UK I imagine it's cheaper. It has more in it than the Veg1, it has vitamin D, A, E, C, all the Bs, calcium, iron & zinc. There's also the Super-Vegan which has more but is 3-a-day.
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
I take b12 and multi because I don't think it hurts to be on the safe side. It's a given that we are always trying to expand the range of whole foods we eat as well.
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
Blueberries
I get the H&B brand 1-a-day vegan multi-vitamin & mineral here its about €6, so in the UK I imagine it's cheaper. It has more in it than the Veg1, it has vitamin D, A, E, C, all the Bs, calcium, iron & zinc. There's also the Super-Vegan which has more but is 3-a-day.
hi blueberries, thanks for this. I will have a look at them in H and B later today. Went to see doc the other day as my mental health has taken a turn for the worse and he suggested I take Omega 3s and B complex, so will see about these too.
yo-yo x
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
FrugalMe
I take b12 and multi because I don't think it hurts to be on the safe side. It's a given that we are always trying to expand the range of whole foods we eat as well.
you're right I don't think it can hurt, I just worry excessively about everything sometimes including what the 'right' thing is to do with supplements being a vegan.
yo-yo x
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
I have just been to Holland and Barrett after being recommended by my dietician to take a multi vitamin due to not getting enough Vit C, B12 and calcium. However after getting home the one's I've bought (Vegan multivitamin & mineral 60 caplets) I have looked more thoroughly at the nurtitional information and the %RDA for 8 of the ingredients is over 100% for B6 it is 429%... Has anyone else come up across this, does it matter??
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
phiewe
I have just been to Holland and Barrett after being recommended by my dietician to take a multi vitamin due to not getting enough Vit C, B12 and calcium. However after getting home the one's I've bought (Vegan multivitamin & mineral 60 caplets) I have looked more thoroughly at the nurtitional information and the %RDA for 8 of the ingredients is over 100% for B6 it is 429%... Has anyone else come up across this, does it matter??
The idea of a higher dose is to ensure your body takes in at least enough of it. With most vitamins excess is simply peed out and considered harmless. But B6 is different from what I read, if you aren't low in B6 than I would be a bit worried about the B6 being 429%. You might want to read about that one. The VEG1 of the Vegan Society has 143% EU RDA of B6.
Are you low in vitamin C? On a average healthy diet it would be hard to be low on that. It's a bit of a marketing scam to have people use vitamin C as "wonder supplement"...
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
For excellent advice on supplements for vegans the recent publication "Vegan For Life", by Jack Norris and Virginia Messina, takes some beating.
I have taken Tesco's Omega 3 capsules for years, also their Ginkgo Biloba tablets. They are both reasonably priced, and are usually available on "3 for the price of 2" offers.
However, I recently discovered " Linusit Gold" on the shelves of my local Tesco store, and I am changing over to that for my Omega 3 supplement. It is in seed form, from especially cultivated golden linseed, and can be taken with yoghurt, breakfast cereals, non-dairy milk, fruit juice, or sprinkled over soups, vegetables, salads or desserts. This seems a much more natural source of Omega 3 to me, and is likely to be of more benefit than taking capsules or tablets. I just hope that I don't start cheeping like a budgerigar or canary!
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
can someone explain this to me..... how come some vitamins contain about 1000% RDA?
for example my B5 suppliment: I require 6mg of B5 a day and each tablet contains about 500mg! I know you can't overdose on water soluble vitamins but it just seems like... WHY?
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any? Which do you take?
Hey, I've recently become vegan and am taking a 'complete vitamin and mineral' tablet daily, designed for vegetarians and vegans. But, it says to take two tablets a day and it is 1600% of my B12 per tablet!! Is this safe? How necessary is it to be taking these supplements? I have a varied diet but is this enough?
Re: Do vegans need supplements? Do you take any?
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