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Thread: Biofuel

  1. #1
    USDA Grade E negavert's Avatar
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    Default Biofuel

    It seems that biodeisel was mentioned in the news a few times due to a promise John Kerry made to encourage the switchover to it. The story I heard made mention that biodeisel can be made from the recycled vegetable oil and animal fat from restaurants.

    If it gets to the point where biodeisel becomes a mainstream reality but if there's no way to verify whether or not the biodeisel comes from an animal source or not, would you make the switch anyway?

    It seems like this would be a more complicated case than at first glance; it appeases most of our other concerns about the environment (made from recycled materials, cleaner burning), the economy (made locally providing jobs sorely needed in the US), and global politics (reduced dependency on foreign oil, less need to control other countries to ensure free flow of oil), but would you spurn its use if it has the possibility of coming from animal fat?
    "I intend to live forever. So far, so good."

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    Now that you own Iraq, I don't think will you need biodeisel.

    In Poland they want to add plant components to the fuel. Rapeseed oil I guess.

  3. #3
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default

    i don't drive a car, so i wouldn't personally need to use it anyway. i think it's an interesting idea...but i never want to drive a car whether it uses biodiesel or not, for various reasons.
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

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    as long as it was recycled, i would use it. i would not be very happy with it if animal fat for fuel became an industry. it does burn much cleaner than gasoline, however, and since i am a vegan for environmental reasons, i would still use it. i'd put up a bit of a fight, though

    but isn't biodeisel for deisel engines only? i have a regular car.

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    Quote cast_the_flames
    but isn't biodeisel for deisel engines only? i have a regular car.
    Yeah it is, but I think it might be specialized deisel engines. There's some people around here that I know of who run their cars off of oil they collect from restaurants. Their cars have to have two engines. One "regular" desiel starter engine that warms the car up, and one "biodeisel" (i put in in quotes cause i'm not sure if it's the same technology as other biodeisels). once the bio engine is warmed up the "regular" deseil engine is turned off and it runs completely off the oil collected from restaurants.

  6. #6
    USDA Grade E negavert's Avatar
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    Yes, biodeisel is for deisel-only engines. Ethanol would be the fuel to use for gasoline engines. It's an alcohol that is derived from fermentation of grain or corn, and you can modify your car to accept it. If you have had any experience in beer-making, you can make your own fuel too. There are resources on journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html has all that kind of info, if anyone wants to take the plunge or at least learn more about it.
    "I intend to live forever. So far, so good."

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    I'd probably use it. It sounds more removed than a general byproduct. Good for the environment. Kind of yuckville too... thinking about animal fat makes me cringe and want to hurl... but really it's all so chemically altered that by the time it becomes the final product it's something else entirely.

    At some point you have to do a general comparison, a scale so to speak. The better of two evils or something like that...

  8. #8
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    I definitely would not buy any animal fat fuel. Come on now. Do I have to explain why?

  9. #9
    USDA Grade E negavert's Avatar
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    Say John, how about if I frame the question *this* way:

    Would you switch to biodiesel, which might be made from animal fat, or would you continue to use petroleum-based fuels, which is changing the climate and undoubtably causing the death of animals for lack of habitats?

    If we are concerned about not contributing to the deaths of animals, what do we do in cases where either choice we make will ultimately have the same result?

    And no weasling out of it by saying "oh, I'll ride a bike, or pogo-stick"

    I ask because I see this as a potential quandry for those vegans of moral conscience. I'm sure there are other instances where it's "damned if you do and damned if you don't" that we encounter, so I see this as a way to find out how different people come to terms with those kind of scenarios.
    "I intend to live forever. So far, so good."

  10. #10
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    I do not believe that animal fat-based fuel would pollute any less than petroleum. If cars ran on fat-based fuel, pigs would be bred to be fat like they were 50 years ago when lard was more in demand. To raise those pigs the factory farms would require feed which nowadays is farmed using large machines which run on man-made fuel. And fertilizer which is usually petroleum based would be neccessary to grow the feed.

    I don't think that under close scrutiny the numbers will add up. I find it hard to believe that this system would accomplish anything more than give a boost to the animal-cruelty industry.

  11. #11

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    Last weekend I helped a fellow who was having problems with his VW TDI (Diesel). He pulled the injectors, and one had a slightly distorted spray, however it would not stop him. He was also "Chipping" the engine. Bad settings on the new chip seemed to be the problem. He had two tanks for fuel, one standard, the other for the Bio fuel. He would start the engine with the standard Diesel, then switch over to the Bio Diesel when it was hot. One engine, two fuel supplies.

    The Vender who was doing the "chipping" had a slightly damaged Turbine shaft and fans, to peak interest. I was shocked at the size of the thing. I used an American Quarter to give a scale of size. These fans were just slightly larger. By scavinging some power from the exaust, and pushing air into the engine with the spinning of this small device, you can greatly increase the power of the engine. Reducing the CO2?

  12. #12

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    I would like to use bio fuel when or if I ever have a car. As it stands at the moment I donít think that you have to worry about the animal fat issue as it is not in pumping stations and you have to make your own arrangements. When I was at friends of the earth talking to a guy who is really into the road traffic issue and is veggie, he never mentioned anything about animal fat. I know that someone gave friends of the earth in Birmingham, England a demonstration of how to convert a diesel car to run on bio fuel. When I am next there I will try find out some more information on the subject.

    However on the subject of burning animal fat, I canít see it being that good for the environment!

    I read an article in the big issue a few months ago and it said that the trains there are run on a mixture of vegetable oil and more conventional non renewable oil because it was cheaper. Or at least they did in the 1970ís or something and are now considering bringing it back. I think cars were also run on vegetable oil.

  13. #13
    Useless Dork Tofu Monster's Avatar
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    My bicycle doesn't use ANY fuel!

  14. #14
    John's Avatar
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    I'm about to have some bio-food and ride my bio-cycle cuz I can't afford to bio-a-car.

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    HERES a Feeding Cars, Not People article from George Monbiot thats relevant to this thread.

    Yikes the farming industry run by the oil industry.

  16. #16

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    Default Vegan Road Fuel

    Hi all

    Ive been looking into using veg oil in my diesel car.

    even just using 5% saves us money and makes a big difference to the planet and keeps money out of the govs pocket.

    if you have a diesel car you can use supermarket oil up to 80%
    you should really tell Mr Brown and pay duty.

    If you spend a few hundred quid on a kit then you can run 100% veg oil or used oil and you are not hurting the planet and encourging the farmers to grow crops rather than meat.

    Does anyone here do this??

    Gibby

  17. #17
    On the Coast
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    I drive a huge double tanked dually (double rear wheels) truck for my farm. I run the first tank off Bio-diesel, and the second tank off veggie oil. I get the Bio-diesel from my mechanic (100% post consumer veggie oil derived), and the veg oil from my local falafel hut. I spend about $35 a month on gas - .

  18. #18
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    Talking Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    i drive a toyota prius (hybrid electric)...

    i bareley drive it...i go to and from work everyday, but other than that i rely on public transport, my bike, or my legs...or my friends

    i would drive biodiesel...i did for a while...till the sucker broke down!...but it happens that i fell in love with the prius. *sigh* its a beauty.

    i know i still use gas, but i figure that id rather drive a hybrid car not a lot because of gas usage, than drive a biodiesel car more (because of no gas usage), because driving upsets me and makes me feel like i am drowniing in a sea of stupid people...

    if that makes sense...
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  19. #19
    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    My next car is going to be Diesel, and I'd pay extra to run it on Biodiesel if I had to.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    I would really like to go for the straight vegetable oil option, rather than biodiesel.
    Obviously you still need to start the engine with a small amount of (bio)diesel, but I think it is a decent green option.

    I wish they could solve the problem of soot from diesel engines, though, as due to the size of them, they are supposed to be really bad for you.

  21. #21

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    Default Re: Which companies to boycott and why?

    well to do my bit Im getting my car converted to run on veg oil

    it stops me chucking lots of money at the nasty oil firms and cuts the tax the UK gov rip us off for - and helps the planet

    Gibby

  22. #22
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which companies to boycott and why?

    Is it costly to have this conversion done?

  23. #23

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    Default Re: Which companies to boycott and why?

    No as it will save you a fortune.

    you have 2 options
    buy a kit for around £400 which means you have 2 tanks
    the main tank is for any veg oil the second for normal diesel.

    simply start engine on normal diesel and finish on it too - just inbetween run on veg oil.

    the reason is that the veg oil as it comes from the bottle can clog up your fuel pump so you dont want any left in the pump after your journey.
    The kit heats the oil slightly.

    Engines were first designed to run on oil, and it would keep the farmers in biz.

    You are supposed to register with the authorities to pay duty, waste oil has a very small duty per litre and new oil a bit more
    but how much you state you use is up to the individual.

    without a kit - Bio Diesel
    You can also mix veg oil with normal diesel and 50 50 should run with no problems, some get to 90 10 with no problems depending on your car engine

    have a search on the web as there are lots of sites with info and a very helpful bunch they are too.

    just try sticking in your tank the cheapest oil you can find and keep upping the % until it gets sluggish


    Gibby

  24. #24
    On the Coast
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    Quote On the Coast
    I drive a huge double tanked dually (double rear wheels) truck for my farm. I run the first tank off Bio-diesel, and the second tank off veggie oil. I get the Bio-diesel from my mechanic (100% post consumer veggie oil derived), and the veg oil from my local falafel hut. I spend about $35 a month on gas - .
    Hah - quoting myself, It does'nt get much more self centered than that -

    Anyhoo, I just sold my Bio-Truck to a Rice Farmer I know, and I bought a double tanked gasoline truck. I am building a still with a friend of mine, and I am converting this new gas truck to run on ethanol - , It's really easy, and before you 'denature' the ethanol (poison it), you can have a lil taste of the good stuff - .

    So anyways, after I get a good feel for ehtanol, I am going to buy another gas truck and convert it to electric -

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    Zac Goldsmith in today's Independent newspaper:

    Biofuels are a good alternative. But there's a catch. The world's bread-baskets have been hammered by intensive agriculture and climate change - the Punjab is more than 50 per cent desert, the Northern Plains of China are turning into desert at a rate of 10,000 square miles a year, and so on. To produce enough biofuel to replace oil will require more land than we can afford to make available. Ultimately, we must reduce our dependence on the car, or hope for greater investment in alternatives. For now, we must urge governments to require car-makers to improve fuel efficiency.
    We are saved in the end by the things that ignore us. Andrew Harvey

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Will you switch to biodiesel?

    Quote gertvegan
    HERES a Feeding Cars, Not People article from George Monbiot thats relevant to this thread.

    Yikes the farming industry run by the oil industry.
    Thanks for posting this article, Gertvegan. I think it raises an important point concerning resource allocation:

    "Though 800 million people are permanently malnourished, the global increase in crop production is being used to feed animals: the number of livestock on earth has quintupled since 1950.(9) The reason is that those who buy meat and dairy products have more purchasing power than those who buy only subsistence crops."

    I can only imagine (please pardon my pessimisim) that a large-scale push for biodiesel would further increase the (mis)use of land for profit rather than for sustainably producing healthy, whole foods for those in need.

  27. #27
    Gliondrach
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    Default Bio fuels and vegans

    Up to five per cent of diesel fuel at some filling stations contains rendered down animal fat from slaughter houses or frying fat from fast food places.

    Listen to the BBC Radio 4 'Changing Places' episode which talks about bio-fuels. Click on the link below. If you are listening within the next 6 days, click on 'Listen to the latest edition'. If you are listening after that, click on 11th November, at right of page, and click on 'Listen to the programme in full'. When the Real Player box comes up click on cancel and then exit if you already have Real Player - which you probably do. If not and you want to customise it, follow the instructions.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/...ngplaces.shtml
    Last edited by flutterby; Nov 12th, 2005 at 11:35 AM. Reason: Thread merged with similar existing thread

  28. #28

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    Default Rin your car the vegan way

    Ive been playing about with running my car on veg oil
    Ive got very good results on veg oil but not wanting to pay for a conversion kit as they are quite expensive.
    the link below shows how you can do it for a small price and not hurt the planet
    http://www.alternativesouls.com/oil/

    G
    Last edited by flutterby; Aug 21st, 2006 at 10:05 AM. Reason: This was the 1st post in a similar thread.

  29. #29
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rin your car the vegan way

    I'll bet you haven't been paying the tax though

    How much can you get the oil for and where do you get it?

  30. #30

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    Default Re: Rin your car the vegan way

    of course I pay the tax

    you self cert each month - just register and say how much you use
    cheapest is 43p a litre at the mo from somerfield
    then send a cheque each month to those nice ppl at C&E

    G

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Rin your car the vegan way

    My friend puts veg oil in her car. You can only do it with diesel cars and you should put in an equal amount of veg oil and diesel.

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    Default Re: Rin your car the vegan way

    I read an article where the car engine was completely wrecked. Don't know if it was sponsored by the petrol industry though Are you sure it's safe?

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Rin your car the vegan way

    Quote gibby View Post
    of course I pay the tax

    you self cert each month - just register and say how much you use
    cheapest is 43p a litre at the mo from somerfield
    then send a cheque each month to those nice ppl at C&E

    G
    Whaaaaat!! You're supposed to pay tax on vegetable oil? I never heard that before. If its true the government have got an effin cheek taxing us for finding an alternative use for something
    Last edited by Maisiepaisie; Aug 21st, 2006 at 09:28 AM. Reason: I was so gobsmacked I couldn't spell properly!

  34. #34

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    Default Re: Will you switch to bio fuel?

    It does make me cross that the government think they should get extra money just cos you are putting it in your car instead of eating it!

    It also makes me cross that there is all this talk of it being wrong to use bio-fuel cos there isn't enough land for it when if everyone was vegan there would be plenty of land for it.

    Monday xx

  35. #35

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    Default Re: Will you switch to bio fuel?

    if your doing it right it wont wreck the engine
    the £40 unit is suitable for most cars to make sure its ok.

    If the farmers switched to producing the veg oil rather than farming animals we would have enough land & food for everyone.

    G

  36. #36
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    Default Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/bl...uel-2009-10-14

    Quote Scientific American
    The Swedes, those latter-day descendants of bloodthirsty Vikings, have found a new use for rabbits: heating fuel. According to Der Spiegel, stray rabbits in Stockholm are being shot, frozen and then shipped to a heating plant to be incinerated.

  37. #37
    veganmatters sparklingsights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Oh my god. Why did I click this link?!
    o_O

  38. #38
    phact0rri
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Such efforts have given rise to parody, including a prank in 2007 wherein members of the leftist activist group The Yes Men, masquerading as executives from Exxon Mobil, attempted to convince an audience of oil industry types that "Vivoleum"óa proposed fuel to be made from dead peopleówas the fuel of the future. "We need something like whales, but infinitely more abundant," said Yes Man Andy Bichlbaum masquerading as Shepard Wolff of Exxon. Of course, making biofuel from human fat is illegal in the U.S.
    hee hee.

  39. #39
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    I think we discussed this before and several of us thought fuel from dead people was quite a good idea. Two problems solved at once - I'd consent!

  40. #40
    veganmatters sparklingsights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    ^ agreed!

  41. #41
    LuVegan15
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?



  42. #42
    Son of Otis Panzer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    bunnies are my favorite animal in the animal kingdom. Burning Humans???? Id go for that, its the other , other white meat lol.
    I am the Devil, and I'm here to do the Devils work.

  43. #43
    phact0rri
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Quote harpy View Post
    I think we discussed this before and several of us thought fuel from dead people was quite a good idea. Two problems solved at once - I'd consent!
    I assume this was before my time.

  44. #44
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Yes it would have been a while ago phactOrri, and I can't find the thread now. But don't worry, there's still time to sign up for our human biofuel scheme

  45. #45
    veganmatters sparklingsights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Ever since I was a kid I always thought it was ridiculous to bury people. (That was before I really knew about cremation). I thought, wow! What a waste of space! Just throw me in the woods and let me decompose!
    ...I've since learned that apparently that's illegal, ha.
    I would liek to say I would 100% consent to my corpse being used for fuel.. but I think we really, really overuse fuel so I would hate to go to waste (haha). But the sentiment behind it I agree with.
    That said, I say that when thinking about my own dead self... if I think about my parents dying, I doubt I would want to send them away to be used for fuel. I know it's just their body, yada yada... but still. Personally I would rather cremate them and make some sentimental jewelry or something.

    Sorry, semi-off topic rambling.. it's early!

  46. #46
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    They have "green" burials here that are in specially designated woods. However there seem to be ecological objections to most ways of getting rid of bodies, including cremation, and as people are going to use fuel whether we like it or not this seems quite a good solution, provided everyone consents of course. I don't see it happening any time soon though because people are so squeamish.

  47. #47
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    Default Swedes divided over bunny biofuel

    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  48. #48
    my army bradders's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    personally I am a whatever you want to do with it after I'm gone kinda guy so medical uses first then science for the remainder, anything left I'd happily allow for food for animals or even fuel. It's no good to me.

    As for the rabbits.
    1. It is terrible that people are allowing pets to breed, especially to the degree that they literally throw out the offspring.
    2. It's bad that they buy pet rabbits to start with
    3. It's bad that the authorities are culling the animals rather than taking responsibility for the actions of the citizens and giving them shelter and dealing with the culprits.


    However, once they've actually killed the rabbits I find it hard to find a credible argument against recycling the corpses for fuel, the alternative is burning them or burying them anyway. The main worry is that the chain could become dependent on rabbits as fuel in the same way that incinerators become dependant on a mix of combustibles including a range of recyclables. The consequences of this are much greater of course.

    Really is quite a sad situation from start to finish.
    If I sink to the bottom I can run to the shore.

  49. #49
    veganmatters sparklingsights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Quote Scientific American
    The Swedes, those latter-day descendants of bloodthirsty Vikings
    Is it just me or does this read off as kind of derogatory? Not really something I would expect from something supposed to be "scientific"...

    Quote Scientific American
    stray rabbits in Stockholm
    I don't really understand this concept. I guess different continents have different animals... but how are rabbits strays? Aren't they wild animals?

    Quote Scientific American
    attempted to convince an audience of oil industry types that "Vivoleum"—a proposed fuel to be made from dead people—was the fuel of the future.
    WIN. As mentioned in this thread above, fab idea. I think a surprising amount of people worldwide would be accepting of this... but I'm quite confident it will never, ever happen.

  50. #50
    veganmatters sparklingsights's Avatar
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    Default Re: Burning bunnies for biofuel?

    Quote bradders View Post
    However, once they've actually killed the rabbits I find it hard to find a credible argument against recycling the corpses for fuel, the alternative is burning them or burying them anyway.
    I'm sure you agree that they simply shouldn't be killing them in the first place. The issue here isn't that they're being used for fuel (at least that's what I understand), it's the concern that they're being killed for that purpose. If people want to scour the woods for dead animals that haven't been eaten or animals that have been killed by cars and left on the road and turn those into fuel - by all means.

    Quote bradders View Post
    The main worry is that the chain could become dependent on rabbits as fuel
    I can see it now... 'factory farms' to 'produce' rabbits to use as fuel. Gag.

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