Animals and Veganism in Children's Literature

[DancingWillow]

Children's stories and books, in addition to being entertaining, teach children how to relate to various aspects of life and the world around them. Such early learnings are so important and often are the roots of various beliefs, values, and behaviors that adults hold.

So how are animals portrayed in children's literature? What values and lessons do they teach to children? Is cruelty towards animals normalized for children through books? Are there vegan-friendly children's books and stories?

What made me think about this subject is reading the Chronicles of Narnia. I never read these books as a child...I read them for the first time last year. Even though I tremendously enjoyed the books, I felt sad at how the animals were portrayed. At first when I started reading, I was very happy at how respectfully the animals were treated...as I kept reading, however, I found out that this respect was only extended to the "talking beasts,"
while the other animals were killed and eaten throughout the books. I think this separation between the talking and non-talking animals was particularly detrimental because it emphasizes the non-vegan belief that the voiceless creatures are inferior, are made to be eaten and killed, and it's normal to abuse them.

So I wanted to started this thread to open a discussion about animals and children's stories and books...

[Glen]

I could rant all day about the indoctrination that I believe is forced upon children by their entertainment, in all its forms.

There always appears to be two types of portrayal of animals in children's literature: The first is as you mentioned, where animals are portrayed as inferior. The second is where the animals are personified and detatched from their real existence. I can think of loads of films that have come out even recently that promote this; A Bug's Life, Antz, The Farm, Ice Age, Chicken Run, Lilo and Stitch etc.

While I do not believe that these films are made with this purpose, I do believe that they greatly contribute to how children perceive animals. Kids learn by watching others, increasingly, this includes the TV and media.

It doesn't stop there; think of 'petting' zoos, those wonderful places where children can stropke happy farm animals. When those children grow up, that is what they believe the reality to be, even though it is very different. What about the soft cuddly toys of cows, pigs and sheep? Same again. They all paint an idyllic view for the children of what farm (and other) animals are like.

I hate it, I really do, it enrages me every time I see something like this.

[BRobinson]

I too have wondered about the moral messages in children's literature. I'm currently studying literature at university, so the topic is of particular interest to me because one should be able to discern broader trends of moral change in a society by studying the children's literature of said society. It would certainly make for an interesting dissertation topic.

Glen, I feel your pain about the way various groups, like the hospitality, meat and dairy, and the tobacco industries, etc have utilized advertising that appeals to children.

However, the fact is that children learn about their society and culture from every bit of stimulus they are exposed to, and so those same children who see McDonald's commercials will also see their parents eating steaks for dinner, or see other adults smoking, etc.

As such, I feel it's more important that people focus on positive reinforcement of their own values and ideals, rather than concerning themselves with censorship of those of others. That's why I love PeTA: they make it very clear, and are very effective in that the primary target audience for their materials is children, those members of society who haven't yet arrived at a sense of intellectual arrogance and certainty about the way things are and should be.

[moonshadow]

as a parent, we think about this sort of thing a lot. i think that though there's not a lot out there that directly supports veganism, a parent can turn anything into a lesson.

i was raised vegetarian, and i think one of the things that led me to become vegan later in life was the petting zoo at the san francisco zoo, as well as visits to the santa clara county fair.

my parents talked about the animals. not just in the 'isn't it cute and fuzzy' sort of way, but i understood that people ate these animals. it kept me vegetarian. that said, my sister wasn't similarly affected...

but, anyway, i think the best thing with raising our children is that we get the chance to raise them. let them read everything, but talk about what they've read. take the narnia thing. it's a great starting point for a discussion with a child about the animals in our world, and do we think that just because we don't speak their language or vice versa, that they should be eaten or used for tests that they can't protest about? see how even though the people in the books are good people, they don't make this connection. talk about how it's possible for a good person to have a different view from ours. that it doesn't make them bad people. that some people may be misguided, and others have consciously chosen a different lifestyle to ours.

anyway, just my way of seeing that every book/film/petting zoo can be used as a positive vegan (or other aspect of life) influence.

[Glen]

And what a beautiful happy child your daughter appears to be

[moonshadow]

thank you we love her to bits!

[Nest]

Children's stories and books, in addition to being entertaining, teach children how to relate to various aspects of life and the world around them. Such early learnings are so important and often are the roots of various beliefs, values, and behaviors that adults hold.

So how are animals portrayed in children's literature? What values and lessons do they teach to children? Is cruelty towards animals normalized for children through books? Are there vegan-friendly children's books and stories?

So I wanted to started this thread to open a discussion about animals and children's stories and books...

I just found this thread, but I was discussing the idea with my housemate a couple of days ago! We were discussing 'fairy tales' in particular. In The Three Little Pigs, the "big, bad wolf" is killed by falling into a pot of boiling water; in Peter & the Wolf, the wolf is killed; in Little Red Riding Hood, once again the wolf is killed ...

They are just the ones I can remember off-hand, but there must be other examples. So yes, I think that cruelty to animals is definately "normalized" in kid's stories.

[tilly]

I always wanted the wolf to eat the people!!!
That's when my parents realised I was a bit weird...

[absentmindedfan]

The wolf in fairy tale is generally accepted as being representative of uncontrolled male lust, similarly Red Riding Hood is a figure of a girl approaching sexual maturity (her red hood signifying sexuality, menstruation etc) and having to deal with the 'wild' male sexuality of the wolf who has already consumed her grandmother.
They aren't as simple as just 'animal bad must die', they also subconsciously affect the psychological and sexual development of children. Myths and fairy tales have always forbidden incest and parent-child sexual contact, it is how we learn that these things aren't 'right'.
They also show children that with confidence and intelligence they can outwit or conquer these 'wolves' or evil step-parents, without their parents' help. OK so it life isn't as simple as that, but a lot of basic psychological advice is veiled in fairy tale, which is why they are so important.

Guess what I did my dissertation on :roll eyes:

[Roxy]

You know, that's very interesting! (and I'm not rolling my eyes lol)

[tilly]

Does it hurt to be that smart???

[BRobinson]

The wolf in fairy tale is generally accepted as being representative of uncontrolled male lust, similarly Red Riding Hood is a figure of a girl approaching sexual maturity (her red hood signifying sexuality, menstruation etc) and having to deal with the 'wild' male sexuality of the wolf who has already consumed her grandmother.
They aren't as simple as just 'animal bad must die', they also subconsciously affect the psychological and sexual development of children. Myths and fairy tales have always forbidden incest and parent-child sexual contact, it is how we learn that these things aren't 'right'.
They also show children that with confidence and intelligence they can outwit or conquer these 'wolves' or evil step-parents, without their parents' help. OK so it life isn't as simple as that, but a lot of basic psychological advice is veiled in fairy tale, which is why they are so important.

Guess what I did my dissertation on :roll eyes:

Very interesting! Do you think that children actually subconsciously pick up on that sort of subliminal rhetorical treatment in their children's stories, or do you feel that such efforts are wasted?

I personally think I picked up my sense that incest is wrong (for example) from my observation of all language, not simply the 'traditional' literature to which I was exposed. For me, literature is simply an easy target for most people because it is the most explicitly analyzable social message available, seeing as how it presents itself as self-contained.

[absentmindedfan]

Well it's hard to test these sort of things, but Bruno Bettelheim wrote a book called 'Uses of Enchantment-the importance of fairy tale' about what each of the main fary tale structures can provide psychologically to children. True, literature is easiest to anaylse and it could be argued that children who receive the sort of hands-on care that usually accompanies being read to are more likely to develop better psychologically, but evidence does point to fairy tales in particular being helpful in helping children develop independence and coping skills.

But it's a commonly accepted theory that alot of our morals come from myth and fairy tale, ever since the Egyptians and of course the Greeks (see Oedipus as the famous example) incest and murder have been vilified.

I'm glad not everyone finds me boring!

[moonshadow]

I'm glad not everyone finds me boring!

on the contrary! it's refreshing to read someone's researched and thought out opinions on things.

[absentmindedfan]

I'm glad three years and £10,000 worth of degree didn't go to waste

[Gorilla]

i haven't read the book but i happened to see the beginning of Dr Dolittle (the 1967 film with Rex Harrison) on TV the other day, and he was singing a song about how he loved the taste of meat, but he's a vegetarian because he can empathise with animals and realises they don't want to be killed. i was amazed to hear that and although i've never seen it i doubt they touched on that in the Eddie Murphy remake of a few years ago.

[DancingWillow]

The wolf in fairy tale is generally accepted as being representative of uncontrolled male lust, similarly Red Riding Hood is a figure of a girl approaching sexual maturity (her red hood signifying sexuality, menstruation etc) and having to deal with the 'wild' male sexuality of the wolf who has already consumed her grandmother.
They aren't as simple as just 'animal bad must die', they also subconsciously affect the psychological and sexual development of children. Myths and fairy tales have always forbidden incest and parent-child sexual contact, it is how we learn that these things aren't 'right'.
They also show children that with confidence and intelligence they can outwit or conquer these 'wolves' or evil step-parents, without their parents' help. OK so it life isn't as simple as that, but a lot of basic psychological advice is veiled in fairy tale, which is why they are so important.

Guess what I did my dissertation on :roll eyes:

That's very interesting AMF!!

There definitely are important lessons presented metaphorically in fairy tales and fables, and since they are learned early on and unconsciously, they are very powerful lessons. While I agree that these stories offer useful psychological advice, they also unfortunately offer negative advice that perpetuates outdated stereotypes and other various negative perspectives.

For instance, young women are always portrayed doing housework (Cinderella, Snow White, etc) or as "damsels in distress" who need a strong, courageous man to rescue them (Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Rapunzel, etc). Girls and women are not pictured as courageous, independent, strong, and adventurous. For example, in The Little Mermaid, Ariel is a precocious and adventurous girl who likes to swim farther away than her peers and explore the unknown. Her adventurous spirit is curtailed by her father, however, rather than encouraged. Understandably, the story is also about approaching sexual maturity, and this aspect has an effect on the plot. However, notice that Eric's parents don't caution him to be careful with exploring the unknown waters and about being cautious with girls...

The same is true with racist stereotypes. There are few fairy tales that include characters from other races, and if they do, those characters are portrayed in lower and subservient positions.

Animals are another element that's common to children's stories and I believe that children have a natural love for animals and living in harmony with other creatures. Classic fairy tales and other children's stories and books seem to crush this natural love for animals and replace it with a view that animals are "just animals" and that it is normal to eat and kill them...

I really liked moonshadow's post about how each story can be used to broach and discuss the various aspects - positive and negative - of the story with children. Parents can guide children's views, challenge the stories, ask the children about their thoughts about the story or ask them how they would change the story, and so on. Parents can also encourage children's creativity by letting children make-up their own stories.

[DancingWillow]

I always wanted the wolf to eat the people!!!
That's when my parents realised I was a bit weird...

lol

[BRobinson]

There definitely are important lessons presented metaphorically in fairy tales and fables, and since they are learned early on and unconsciously, they are very powerful lessons. While I agree that these stories offer useful psychological advice, they also unfortunately offer negative advice that perpetuates outdated stereotypes and other various negative perspectives.

Well said. Children also seem to pick up concepts from the very language people use. The linguistic binary 'human/animal' is what I feel may well be at the heart of the issue of animal rights, because it establishes within the very language a notion that 'human' is different from 'animal.' As such, most people seem to have a 'common sense' conception as such, though no-one can very clearly illustrate what it is that makes humans unique. I myself spent a great deal of time agonizing over that difference in my years before going vegan, and indeed it wasn't until I sufficiently deconstructed that pair of terms that I would change.

[Agatha]

I always wanted the wolf to eat the people!!!
That's when my parents realised I was a bit weird...

Same here! I couldn't understand why he wasn't, what kind of a wolf is that, eh?

[absentmindedfan]

Fairy tales only perpetuate negative stereotypes when Disney, the Grimm Brothers etc compile, censor and change them.
Alot of fairy tales have strong heroines who use their intelligence to get them out of trouble. For instance in the original Red Riding Hood she kills the wolf herself. Historically fairy tales were told by women to their children, and they used the excuse that the tales were just 'fantasy' to explore sexuality and the possiblity of freedom and independence.
I'm not saying some of them are a little outdated, but often the original is a lot different to the printed versions as men collected and censored the stories before they printed them.
So blame Disney!

[Agatha]

Have you read the Bloody Chamber by Jeannette Winterson? It is a collection of retold fairy tales, often resembling the originals better than the disneyfied versions. Although the passification of women in literature I belive started in the Victorian era when women were encouraged to be entirely dependent on men and keep 'separate spheres'. Its been hailed a bit of a feminist book because of the strong female leads and is a little gory in places.

[absentmindedfan]

I studied The Bloody Chamber by Angela Carter if that's who you mean. I did my dissertation on the title story, a rewrite of Bluebeard.
It's not so much feminist as postmodern with some new-era feminist leanings. Carter discards alot of populist feminist ideologies and has fun with them, her work is very tongue-in-cheek at times and yet very powerful regarding the emancipation of women through narrative, especially rewriting tales that were butchered by men when first printed.

And as for the passification of women in literature...don't get me started!
I would say its been going on a lot longer than since Victorian literature, although you can never put an exact date on these sort of things and the concept of causal history is somewhat over-simplifying, but you can see the effects of a dominant male ideology enforced through literature since the Greeks.

[Agatha]

yes Angela Carter *red face*

[absentmindedfan]

lol, no worries