Climate Change and Vegans

[starbee]

I thought I'd start my first post on here with a question which bothers me, I am both a vegan and deeply worried about climate change...........

The mechanised production and distribution of food and the use of animals instead seems to contradict for me; do we need to all be growing veggies in our gardens? Furthermore, climate change is likely to cause massive suffering to animals itself (not to mention humans) and is therefore anything which contributes to it is in itself not exactly vegan either.

Jon.

[DianeVegan]

Welcome to the forum, Jon!

You have hit upon a concern that many of us have. Whether or not growing your own vegetables will contribute much to the situation is unlikely since it won't impact the transportation and manufacturing industries (big contributors to greenhouse gases). A much better choice might be to purchase food that is locally produced while maintaining an organic/veganic garden.

There are a myriad of things we can all do to decrease our personal contribution to climate change but pressuring our governments is much more important since they have the power to make the big changes that are necessary of industry. I don't know where you are located but if you do an internet search you will find many organizations to join that are trying to pressure governments/industry into real change.

[Mr Flibble]

Hello, welcome to the forum

I'm sure you'll find many others with similar views and existing threads on or related to the subject. This article from earlier this year may be of interest.

[terrace max]

I'd suggest that the starting point has to be that climate change is now inevitable and that your veganism and my veganism isn't going to make any significant difference whatsoever.

I also suspect that hugely disruptive climate change is also inevitable: let's face it, no government is ever, EVER going to stand up sufficiently to fossil fuel corporate interests and the trillions of dollars they have invested in the global economy. To suggest liberal politics or lifestyle adjustments can deliver us from this crisis is a utopian delusion IMO.

I think veganism has environmental relevance but can be filed under 'being able to look your grandchildren in the eyes'. Unfortunately, I think the time for saving the planet in its present form has passed and that ambition only clouds the thinking of many environmentalists. More relevant is how we are going to prepare for a new, more hostile world...

[snaffler]

On lighter note vegans contribute A lot of rear gas to the environment, or so my friends keep telling me.

[DianeVegan]

Terrace Max,
I agree with everything you are saying. Many scientists do believe we are past the point of no return with global warming (manmade or natural). I think we will probably see a fair decrease in our standard of living in our lifetimes (at least those of us in the developed countries). The children of today may very well look back upon us and think we lived like royalty. And I would agree.

Looking towards the future, we have decided to move to a state with numerous individually owned farms, great public transportation, walking distance to my job and most other businesses and a smaller square footage living area. We've also gone back to the basics with our eating and do not rely on any prepackaged, processed foods for our basic nutrition. We have also gotten ourselves out of debt and save as much as we can for the day when food (as well as fuel and other basics) becomes much more expensive. And I can honestly say that I know of no family or friends who are doing the same - I hope for all of them that we are being overly cautious.

[terrace max]

Diane, I feel the decisions you have made are just the sort of things people should be considering in earnest...Conversely, I suspect our economies rely on the vast majority of people continuing to ignore the increasingly obvious reality we are confronted with...

I reckon it's wise to start living 'off the grid' as much as possible NOW: by this I mean investing in your own domestic energy generation (mini wind turbine, solar panels, rainwater recovery etc.); learning to grow vegan food; living without a car...that sort of stuff...By contrast, traditional financial investments such as pensions have become obsolete...replaced by what? land ownership??

It's completely transformative if we realise the full implications of an economy without cheap oil, and humanity without a god-given right to flourish indefinitely...

I realise it's easy to smirk at this kind of 'head-for-the-hills' type mentality. But I've looked and looked for counter-evidence that our culture is utterly decadent and teetering on the brink of extinction...and I can't find a damn thing

[starbee]

i guess what i meant was more of a philosophical question, rather than a practical one - I see being a vegan as boycotting everything connected with animals' suffering (from the obvious and direct eating meat and dairy through the less obvious medicine or cosmetics tested on animals) and in order to be consistent, this ought to include climate change too as it will inevitably lead to greater animal suffering.....

Living in Mid Wales I have a great deal of contact with the Centre for Alternative Technology (www.cat.org.uk) and would suggest that anyone who feels then coming off the grid (ie becoming greener through consuming more - an oxymoron I feel) or moving to a rural location (like there is space for us all to do that) have a good look at their website's information section. However growing ones own food and living without a car have to be applauded. Anyway, this is dangerous ground for me - I am hardly a saint!

[Cherry]

Thanks Starbee.

Nice van and as I reflect on my recent mileage with petrol.

(Oh and FANTASTIC url!)

[Gliondrach]

Hello, Starbee. Bore da. Being a vegan is certainly the best dietary choice if you want to reduce your part in adding to global warming. I think we should grow much of our own food - vegan-organically, or course. And, as Diane suggests, buying locally produced food and other things. The Movement for Compassionate Living http://www.mcl.webspace.unisonfree.net/index.htm encourges us to do so.

It's probably possible to slow down or even prevent some of the worst effects of global warming but only if we all make radical changes now. But, as Terrace Max said, it is not going to happen. People aren't going to give up their cars and their holiday flights. And most won't give up meat.
We can try to make changes in our own lives and hope that we can be an example to others.

Regards,

Martin.

[Jane M]

The movie "An Inconvenient Truth" which opens in the US on May 24th (I have no idea about UK distribution) does address most of those concerns. There is a link on this site

http://www.climatecrisis.net/


you can view the trailer and find ways of helping the environment there.

I refuse to give up hope. If we have a defeatist additude then we are defeated.

Martin Luther King Jr. said "We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." I believe that is true...especially when when dealing with big changes in how people live and think.

[Jane M]

If you are looking for a real easy way to help with the fight against Global Warming check out the Stop Global Warming Organizations virtual march.

http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/default.asp

[DianeVegan]

Terrace Max,
So nice to "see" you again. I always enjoy your posts.

Starbee,
Thanks for starting a thread that pulled my old friend out of the woodwork.

Jaydog,
Girls don't fart.

Martin and Jane,
We can (and have) make small steps by changing our lifestyles. But there is certainly more we can, and must, do on a larger scale. I don't like having a defeatist attitude about any of this but sometimes the realist in me battles with the optimist.

[the_red_star]

I would love to see the government actually take a fimer stand on these issues but as terrace max already said, corporate issues are far more important to them.

I think people who care should just do what they can. I might not have any significant effects but atleast you know you have done something etc etc

To be honest, i think people are far too selfish. If it doesn't affect them directly, right here, right now, type of thing then they don't care. They think they can just leave other people to clear up their mess.

I also think there should be better education about these issues. It should be 'drummed' into people everyday until they know the exact state of the world and what is going to happen if we don't begin to change things. I know there is a vast amount of information out there but i don't think it's reaching everybody, atleast not in an effective way. I still talk to friends and other people about climate change and things and it is scary how little they know.

[terrace max]

I agree that most adults in the developed world are now hopeless consumer junkies who would shrivel up and die without a good hit to their shopping/pleasure gland every day...!

I guess one way to instill some sort of ecological sanity would be to require all schools to generate their own electricity, grow their own food, reuse/ recycle all their waste etc. - thereby disseminating environmental sanity to the next generations.

Of course this would never be legislated for by any responsible government. Ecological conciousness subverts the very basis of late capitalism: a consumer driven economy. If the optimists around here can unravel that particular conundrum, I'm more than ready to join the party...

[DianeVegan]

Good points. Here in the U.S. the only good news is growth in business, according to what you hear on the news each day. We have been so conditioned to believe that the cost of everything, the worth of everything and the pay for every job needs to be in a constant upward motion. What if it all stood still? Why do we need to constantly accumulate more?

If anyone has read Jared Diamond's "Collapse" he mentions a past society which required that new forms of money be changed on a regular basis so that no one person could accumulate wealth but rather put every resource he had back into the village. I couldn't imagine that happening now.

We can't even keep consumerism and business out of our fund-raising drives. Whenever children here do fundraising (for school or the girl scouts, ect.) they are given some high fat/sugar foods to sell or some cheap, non-fair trade trinkets to sell to their family and neighbors. The industry that has sprung up to "help" charity fund drives makes the most money and the children learn that you must purchase something even to make a charitable contribution. It's brilliant marketing that has made all our children salesmen and consumers at the same time.

[Jane M]

Ecological conciousness subverts the very basis of late capitalism: a consumer driven economy. If the optimists around here can unravel that particular conundrum, I'm more than ready to join the party...

I'm really hoping that means you don't plan on doing anything unless it's an easy win? That we can win anyway so just don't try?

Please read the the abbreviated history of Greenpeace here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenpeace

there are links at the bottom of the page taking you to various Greanpeace links you might find interesting.

Another site that those in the US might find especially interesting is Exxpose Exxon.

http://www.exxposeexxon.org/

I was always taught that standing by and doing nothing was as bad as committing the crime myself. I also see that there is an AR thread here and that they have been very active in the UK so I know that there are still people trying to make a positive change in the world. I am believing that I just took that comment the wrong way.....

[terrace max]

I'm really hoping that means you don't plan on doing anything unless it's an easy win?

I was always taught that standing by and doing nothing was as bad as committing the crime myself.

Hi JM. Last time I checked - the some things I'm doing seemed ok...

I'm sure there's more to your ecological manifesto than platitudes. Please let me know how you believe we actually get from here to there as a society...

[Jane M]

OK...how about going to some of the web sites of the organizations that are really trying to educate and lobby against global warming? Just for starts. They give a lot of information on how individuals can help out with signing petitions and sharing information with those they know along with ways of cutting down on the individual use of energy.

Here are a few sites you might begin with:

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/

http://www.stopglobalwarming.org/default.asp

http://www.care2.com/

Did you follow any of the links in my earlier post? Those are very good too.

[terrace max]

I was a member of greenpeace for many years, and I'd add Friends of the Earth to your list of worthy organisations. I even stood for election for the Green Party (UK) in that previous life....

...what changed my mind was experiencing first hand that political mechanisms - such as standing for election, lobbying - aren't only ineffective but are, in fact, counter-productive..,not least because they attempt to impose 'green' ideas from above. This allows 'the environment' to become a political football, a mere middle class, half-arsed, lifestyle option; rather than the very keystone of our existence.

For example, nobody seriously suggests that veganism should be legislated for - that you could actually impose veganism upon others. The counter reaction would make the plight of animals worse, not better. Some people wear veganism like a nice hat. But durable veganism just comes from within. It's just the same for the environmentalism (not least because veganism and environmentalism are both just aspects of the same thing: non violence). You either vote/campaign for the planet, or you just do it.

So, for me, politics and pressure groups merely postpone ecological conciousness. What the planet really needs isn't people fluffing up their own ego by campaigning, or skirmishing with each other in the macho political arena. It is people who are prepared to disengage from all aspects of modern life which are violent to nature. And by so doing, to give birth to a sustainable society within the belly of this one.

From the perspective of conserving the earth's resources, there's only one thing worse than not joining your righteous struggle: it's joining the WRONG struggle, or indeed, the wasteful, adversarial political struggle at all. The sooner people realise that politics only reinforces the status quo, and actually do something meaningful, the better IMO....

[akaredarcher]

I think what people are generally saying here is that climate change, veganism etc is tied in with treading more lightly on the earth? That is, leaving less of a 'footprint' on the earth during your time here...

Oh, & I like your van Starbee. Does the fact that it's red make it go faster? I met a guy last year who did engine conversions on the sly (drove one from Perth via Darwin to Melbourne once apparently using donated oil from fish & chip shops, chinese takeaways etc). He reckoned that the exhaust took on the odour of whatever had been cooked in the oil - that is, oil from the chinese takeaway smelled like spring rolls etc.

Diana
akaredarcher

[DianeVegan]

Well, I agree with much of what Terrace Max says, however I hope that Jane M's suggestions will make a difference. I can only reach a few people by myself so I do join groups with likeminded goals. I would love for the system to be different but I work within it because I don't know any other way. This just came to me today, from one my memberships. Very apropos to the discussion!


Global Warming Goes Mainstream

It's official: global warming has gone mainstream. On TV, in the theaters, and on the web--global warming is everywhere. Following are a few of the latest films that can help all of us working on the issue to communicate the urgency of transforming our energy system to our friends, families, and colleagues.
Too Hot Not to Handle - This HBO documentary looks at the impact of global warming on the United States and what steps we can take to reduce the threat. Watch for David Friedman, research director of the UCS Clean Vehicles Program. Click here to see when it's playing in your area and host a house party.

An Inconvenient Truth – Opening in theaters on May 24, this documentary tells the story of former Vice President Al Gore’s efforts to educate the public on the urgency of global warming and our moral obligation to address it. Bring some friends to opening weekend; click here to find a theater near you.

Climate: A Crisis Averted - Global warming is a daunting challenge. To give us all a needed boost, here's a four minute web film that is an uplifting and light retrospective (from the year 2055) about how America rose to meet the climate challenge. View the film and share it with your friends and family.

If you received this message from a friend, you can sign up for the Union of Concerned Scientists.

[abrennan]

I recently attended the Sydney (Australia) Vegan Expo. One of the things that speakers mentioned was that living a Vegan lifestyle had a more positive impact on the environment than running a non petrol car.

We were told that the energy used by the animal industrial complex was absolutley enormous and rivaled all other industries.

Antony

[Jane M]

Yes, abrennan, a vegan diet has been proven to be more environmentally friendly. There was an article in the News-Medical.Net on April 25th about it.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=17578

The site for the movie coming out An Inconvenient Truth:

http://www.climatecrisis.net/

also goes into how the eating less meat can affect the environment

quote:

Eat less meat.

Methane is the second most significant green house gas and cows are one of the greatest metane emitters. Their grassy diet and multiple stomachs cause them to produce methane, which they exhale with every breath.

unquote.

[abrennan]

Thanks for the links Jane I saw that news medical page last night when I was browsing around.

I would be great if it becomes an issue on the Global Warming bandwagon.

Antny