Burger King veggie pattie

[river]

I guess this will sound condescending but I think we're in a very small minority of people who actually consider where our food is coming from and I doubt our business will make any difference one way or the other. .

I'm new here, so here goes first post.
This doesn't sound condescending at all - not to me - I have been saying all along that we as vegans are mistaken to think we can change big business in any meaningful way. I suspect that most concessions to what we think of as 'vegan' or even 'vegetarian' options are really options for the omnivore slimmers and those with health problems - hence the skim milk or cassein, egg whites, etc. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to change things, but we shouldn't delude ourselves either.

[tasha]

I actually think it is important to support any company that promotes a vegan product and lets face it, there are times (at least for me) when I'm on the road and buying a veggie burger from a fast food joint is a welcome opportunity.

Being vegan is about doing what is best for animals. We can come up with thousands of reasons as to why we shouldn't buy from a fast food joint, or we can promote and support an item that will save many animals from pain and suffering.

Plus, I think it is good that they are actually giving the veggie option in most chains as it raises awareness--whether of the animals, health, or both.
My father (a hard core meat eater) commented a few weeks ago, "hmmm...there seems to be a lot of that veggie food offered everywhere now, huh?" To me, because he noticed, it means he is thinking about it...which is a good thing as he may come to realize that I'm really not a "nut", but instead that vegetarianism is on the rise!

By the way...Welcome River

[Mr Flibble]

That's certainly a valid point tasha, however boycotts for particularly bad companies are also a powerful tool too. There's hundreds of vegan products in the UK which I don't buy because I boycott the companies for various reasons. I could buy P&G, unilever, nestle products etc and claim I'm doing it for animals, but it would be a lie - i'd be doing it for convinience not to alleviate animal torture. I completely agree with your point and I do purchase products and services from companies which are not 100% vegan (or even 5%), however I don't from those such as McDonalds and Bugerking.

[cvC]

Rense.com is notorious for publishing/producing scare mungering propoganda. There was a discussion a while ago on this forum about an article on it that using highly dubious 'science' claimed that microwaves change the properties of water.

Notorious among whom? I can't say that I've believed everything I've seen at Rense and I don't think they claim that they do either, but I do feel that I've learned a lot about things that don't tend to get written about in the mainstream media. No-one claimed that the microwave oven story was anything but a school project, but I did find it interesting, thought other people would too, and this is from something that Red Wellies linked a few posts down - in all fairness, I do actually know a Russian person and he's told me that they are in use in Russia:

"According to US researcher William Kopp, Russian
forensic teams observed the following key effects:

1. People who ingested microwaved foods showed a statistically higher
incidence of stomach and intestinal cancers, plus a general
degeneration of peripheral cellular tissues and a gradual breakdown
of the function of the digestive and excretory systems.

2. Due to chemical alterations within food substances, malfunctions
occurred within the lymphatic system, causing a degeneration in the
immune system's ability to protect the body against neoplastic
(cancerous) growth.

3. Microwave exposure caused significant decreases in the nutritional
value of all foods studied, most significantly in the
bio-availability of Bcomplex vitamins, vitamin C, vitamin E,
essential minerals and lipotropics (substances that prevent abnormal
accumulation of fat).

4. Heating prepared meats in a microwave sufficiently for human
consumption creates the cancer-causing agent d-nitrosodiethanolamine.

5. Cancer-causing free radicals were formed within certain
trace-mineral, molecular formations in plant substances --
particularly in raw root vegetables.

6. Ingestion of microwaved foods caused a higher percentage of
cancerous cells within the blood serum.

7. Microwaving foods alters their elemental food substances, leading
to disorders in the digestive system.

The use of microwave ovens was banned in Russia in 1976."

http://www.cam.net.uk/home/aaa315/he...microwaves.htm

I was pleased to see this from an editor's message at Rense a while ago (and in something that I don't agree with):

"(Note - Being vegan, we disagree with the addition of yogurt to the list....all dairy is unhealthy for a variety of reasons."

http://www.rense.com/general71/vve.htm

[river]

I actually think it is important to support any company that promotes a vegan product. . .

By the way...Welcome River

Hi Tasha Well, we all do what we have to do. But even vegan products can be promoted by companies for cynical reasons, perhaps in order to establish a 'nicer' profile - and that doesn't necessarily mean that they have stopped doing the terrible things that made us all boycott them in the first place. But that's a whole different discussion, I think.

I see from your profile that you're in Canada too! Hi neighbour!

[tasha]

...even vegan products can be promoted by companies for cynical reasons, perhaps in order to establish a 'nicer' profile - and that doesn't necessarily mean that they have stopped doing the terrible things that made us all boycott them in the first place.

Whatever their reasons for promoting vegan products doesn't matter to me insofar that my sister and two of my meat eating friends always purchase veggie bugers from fast food joints ever since I recommended them. This makes me happy since I know that they will always eat at these places and I feel proud of them knowing that they choose not to eat flesh (at least at these places!). Also, my sister (the meat eater, my other sister is veggie) always orders the veggie burger at Swiss Chalet; I can't stop her from dining there as her hubby is a Swiss Chalet freak (I can't even get him to try the burger) but at least she is a step in the veggie direction.

In addition, on a recent road trip to a conference with two other women we stopped on the way back for something to eat and the only place we could find was a Harvey's (I had packed lots of veggie food for the trip, but after 4 days, I pretty much ran out). Not only did I get a veggie burger, but I convinced the two gals to try one. One of the gals liked it so much she has been emailing me asking for different veggie recipes to try out with her children! (So far, her kids have only liked the mexican dishes, i.e. tacos and lasagna--so I'm still looking for more kid friendly veggie meals for her!). She has given up all meat and has started buying almond milk for her coffee, so I think that veggie burger has opened a new door for her (well, the veggie burger and all of my ranting about animals on the trip!).

I suppose it is for these reasons that I stand by my statement

By the way, river, or anyone else from Canada, I heard that the burgers at Burger King are no longer vegan here in Canada anymore either (I know they aren't in the States)...true?

[river]

Whatever their reasons for promoting vegan products doesn't matter to me . . .

By the way, river, or anyone else from Canada, I heard that the burgers at Burger King are no longer vegan here in Canada anymore either (I know they aren't in the States)...true?

As to the first, we all do what we must do I'm glad to hear that you are having such good response to your efforts to convert your family members to vegetarianism. Nice work!

As to Burger King, I too have read that their veggie burgers are no longer vegan but whether that's in Canada too I don't know I guess I wasn't paying attention, and that would be because I refuse to set foot in one of those chains. (Please understand that I say that not as criticism of anyone who chooses to eat in BK or KFC or McD, but as an explanation.) It's going to be tricky for those who have come to rely on BK for emergency rations!

[foxytina_69]

the burger king veggie burgers in the US and other places arent vegan. ive asked burger king in canada if they are vegan, via email and they said yes. they also told me sol veggie products are who they work with for their veggie burgers.

http://www.veg.ca/directory/fastfood.html

[river]

the burger king veggie burgers in the US and other places arent vegan. ive asked burger king in canada if they are vegan, via email and they said yes. they also told me sol veggie products are who they work with for their veggie burgers.

http://www.veg.ca/directory/fastfood.html

Good to know in case I'm ever starving to death, eh? Funny that they're vegan here in Canada - we have so few vegetarians and vegans . . . But I'm not complaining. They're no doubt a boon for young people who like to go out and eat there with their pals - and for those travelling and suddenly having to stop with a car full of hungry kids and husband.

[foxytina_69]

i just went to america. i was in minneapolis and seattle. there is NOTHING for vegans, unless you go to a vegan restaurant. they dont even have alot of chips or anything! it suuuucked. (thank god the conference at the hilton i was at for three days made vegan meals for me!!! but flying all over the place was HELL.) ive never been happier to be back in canada. lol. i hope its not like that all over the US.