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Thread: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

  1. #1
    Sheila's Avatar
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    Question Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I have been curious about this. I now it doesn't but what if being a vegan contributed to world hunger and environmental problems? Would you still be a vegan knowing it caused harm to the earth and others?

    The reason I ask is that I sometimes feel guilty that I feel like I don't care enough about the environment in my reasons for being vegan. I love the animals and feel this is the only way to live for optimal health. But when it comes to world hunger or saving the environment I'm not as concerned.

    I try to do what I can to be a good citizen of the world, but if it came down to it and I found out it was more wasteful growing crops then feeding livestock I would still be vegan. If world hunger were to be lessened by being a meat eater I would still be vegan.

    Any thoughts?

    Sheila
    "Take the path of least harm"

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    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    For me the environment is my number two reason. It's a difficult question, because the fact is the envonmental effects of a meat based diet are horrific.

    I would still be Vegan, because my number reason is that it's important for our health.

  3. #3
    snaffler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    That is a good question, I do not think VEGAN would = its current definition if it had a high impact on the evironment because in turn that effects animals as well, which is what the VEGAN definition is about really.

    So if being vegan hurt the environemnt which in turn would hurt animals so I think their may be another alternative if that were the case.

    If you look at off shoots Organic and Vegan together you would have an even less impact on the environment, but to have zero impact on the environment the human race in developed countries would need to change or end ans they have the biggest impact on our planets resources.

    We all know as vegan we have an impact on our planet but are in a lower scale than a lot lifestyles by nature we are always trying to find new clean, cruelty free ways to live.
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams

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    muxu bero bat! gogs67's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    To me ,it's like saying would you kill your mother to save your father?
    They are both equally important and it's not a hypothesis that's gonna happen so i don't worry about it!
    Thing is,with the evidence of global warming already pretty plain to see there are going to be mass species extinctions in the next 100 years whatever we do!
    Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    ...erm, harming the environment WOULD harm ALL animals and, as a result, would not be vegan!
    "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Mahatma Gandhi.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I guess I was just rambling in my first post, thinking out loud. To me the 3 big things of being vegan are animals, health, and environment.

    I became veggie for health and then vegan because I finally learned about the animals and the ethics.

    I just have not fully grasped the environmental part yet. I contradict myself by my thoughts/actions. For example:

    I have leather seats in my car which I bought about 4 years before I went vegan. I won't replace them even though they bother me because it would be wasting resources.

    I buy as much organic as I can and garden organic to not harm the environment or my health but will use some chemical products that do.

    I really would love to have an electric car but I cannot get one, but on the other hand I also want to buy a Hummer. (makes no sense)

    I use items past any limits of use where the average person would have thrown them out but at the same time our house does not recycle.

    I often waste electricity because I forget to turn things off and at the same time wish I had a solar powered house.

    I feel like one of those people that feel bad about eating meat but do it anyway. I often feel bad about not being a better environmentalist but at the same time am either too stupid/lazy/(fill in the blank) to do anything about it.

    I feel like I need to get really morally outraged like I did when I became a vegan. That is usually what motivates me for change.

    Thanks,
    Sheila
    "Take the path of least harm"

  7. #7
    FR
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I would be vegan if that were the case. I can't help the fact that I'm completely grossed out when it comes to the thought of consuming animal products and could never, under any circumstance see myself eating them again.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Veganism embraces a wide range of ethical issues. In most cases ethics and environment are related. To me, the meat industry is the primary factor that contributes to the damage to the environment. Hence by being ethical i.e avoiding animal products I am also ethical towards the environment. In other words my life style does not contribute to environmental damage, directly or indirectly.

    In the near future, if production of some plant or plant based product taxes the environment, then I would be a judge as to picking the best alternative. Or maybe even omiting it completely. But veganism offers a multitude of options. Pick the right one and still be a vegan.
    Life is like a boomerang: What goes around comes around - "Karma"rocks!

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote FR
    I would be vegan if that were the case. I can't help the fact that I'm completely grossed out when it comes to the thought of consuming animal products and could never, under any circumstance see myself eating them again.
    Me too.

  10. #10
    Stu
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I most certainly would. I think its a disgrace people even care about global warming. How stupid. It doesnt exist!!!

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Stu
    I most certainly would. I think its a disgrace people even care about global warming. How stupid. It doesnt exist!!!
    *lights torch* Unbeliever!

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    My number one reason for being vegan is for the animals...so I'd continue to do it no matter what.


  13. #13
    Stu
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Stu
    I most certainly would. I think its a disgrace people even care about global warming. How stupid. It doesnt exist!!!
    Disclaimer: I should make it clear that 'my' last post was actually rather cheekily posted by Catmogg when I was logged in. She has been punished.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    She has been punished? For you walking away from an unsecured computer logged into VF? Hmpf....

    ^^^^^ What gogs said. I'm having trouble, aside from some extreme and not-too-consequential example here and there, constructing a scenario where the vegan option is the less environmental option.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Sheila
    I use items past any limits of use where the average person would have thrown them out but at the same time our house does not recycle.
    In my opinion, this is better than recycling. From what I know, recycling being better for the environment is debatable. Yes - it is good to keep things out of landfills - but people do not consider the energy it takes and waste it produces to run the factory that processes everything to do the actual recycling process. I think it may differ by what you are recycling...metal, paper, glass, oil, plastic, etc.

    So, really the best thing to do is BUY LESS and keep what you buy!

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Stu
    I most certainly would. I think its a disgrace people even care about global warming. How stupid. It doesnt exist!!!
    ha! i have been in many debates about this topic at work.... there was something on fox news (what a surprise) that said global warming didn't exist and if it did it got better in the last 50 years...oddly enough the bbc news had a big story on why and how it did..... i hate the idiots i work with....

    to answer the question, as crazy as it is , yes!!! we are making a giant mess anyways!! why not do it with a conscience?--- i realize it it hypothetical

  17. #17
    Stu
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote madpogue
    She has been punished? For you walking away from an unsecured computer logged into VF? Hmpf....
    Um, she hasn't really been punished. It was, like, y'know, a joke. I was there when she typed it. I let her.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Sheila
    I guess I was just rambling in my first post, thinking out loud. To me the 3 big things of being vegan are animals, health, and environment.

    I became veggie for health and then vegan because I finally learned about the animals and the ethics.

    I just have not fully grasped the environmental part yet. I contradict myself by my thoughts/actions. For example:

    I have leather seats in my car which I bought about 4 years before I went vegan. I won't replace them even though they bother me because it would be wasting resources.

    I buy as much organic as I can and garden organic to not harm the environment or my health but will use some chemical products that do.

    I really would love to have an electric car but I cannot get one, but on the other hand I also want to buy a Hummer. (makes no sense)

    I use items past any limits of use where the average person would have thrown them out but at the same time our house does not recycle.

    I often waste electricity because I forget to turn things off and at the same time wish I had a solar powered house.

    I feel like one of those people that feel bad about eating meat but do it anyway. I often feel bad about not being a better environmentalist but at the same time am either too stupid/lazy/(fill in the blank) to do anything about it.

    I feel like I need to get really morally outraged like I did when I became a vegan. That is usually what motivates me for change.

    Thanks,
    Sheila
    Sheila I am quite similar in this attitude. You will never get me out of my car and onto public transport. Its unreliable, dirty, expensive and overcrowded and I would probably drive a 4X4 too if I could afford one, although maybe not in this country as people make you feel guilty if you have one. I don't know what the big deal is with 4X4s. The environmental damage is nothing in comparison to aircraft.

    I do try to do my bit for the environment but I know I could recycle more stuff than I do. I just can't be bothered. I think it could be made easier for people by the council providing special bins and have someone collect it.

    I also leave lights on because its easier. The bathroom light is always on all night but I do use low energy bulbs.

  19. #19
    Stu
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Crikey, I don't know if I should really be replying to this or not. To be honest Maisie, your post made me feel kind of angry! Not against you personally, but against the whole "I don't care" / "I can't be bothered" mentality.

    You are correct that 4x4s have relatively insignificant environmental impact when compared to aeroplanes, but that doesn't make them OK, just because it's relatively small! It's still causing a lot of damage, for no reason. Pretty much nobody needs to drive a 4x4 in this country.
    But I agree that we should be addressing the issue of aeroplanes, and the damage they cause. That is a bigger issue.

    With regard to recycling, I suggest you contact your local council. Surely they have a scheme in place, whereby they will collect your recyclables? There's a good chance that they do, and you are simply unaware of it.

    As for public transport: I use it every day, but then again, I'm in London so it's kind of a necessity. I'm strongly in favour of public transport use, but I think the government and local councils are getting it wrong. They need to lure people onto buses, trains and tube networks by making them cheaper, and more reliable. There's nothing I hate more than waiting for a bus to turn up. I mostly use the tube though myself, which is very reliable, but it's stupidly expensive and massively overcrowded. They really really really need to pump more money into public transport if they're genuinely concerned about the environment..

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Stu
    With regard to recycling, I suggest you contact your local council. Surely they have a scheme in place, whereby they will collect your recyclables? There's a good chance that they do, and you are simply unaware of it.
    I've already done this and the only thing they collect is newspaper once a fortnight. There is a scheme for collecting cans and bottles but my house is just outside the area for this. I do care and I do recycle glass, paper and plastic bottles but I admit I don't care enough to go out of my way and I could be doing more

    With regards to public transport, if they address the issues I mentioned then I will consider it but I doubt that will ever happen as it wouldn't be profitable.

    Sorry I know my attitude will piss people off as I am with meat eaters who can't be bothered but for me being vegan is easy but being completely environmentally friendly is a lot of hassel.
    [/quote]

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    princessemma
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Sheila
    I just have not fully grasped the environmental part yet. I contradict myself by my thoughts/actions.
    I fully sympathise with this as I feel there are contridictions in my life as a vegan too;

    I hate the idea of testing medicines on animals but I use prescription medicines, especially for my daughter and if I had cancer I would have chemotheraphy.

    I put food scraps in my composter and I recycle paper and metal (door-door) but we don't have a collection for plastic and I don't recycle it.

    I hate the obssesion we all have with carrier bags and try to remember to reuse them but often there are times when I forget and end-up bringing home more.

    I've been vegan for eight months but still have my old leather shoes. I will replace them with non-leather ones but at the moment they are in good condition and I can't afford to throw them out.

    I would never, ever let somone bring meat into my house but friends do bring their own cows milk for tea and coffee.

    I desperately want to learn to drive!

    I will eat things that do not contain eggs or dairy but are 'made in a factory that uses milk/eggs.'

    I could go on and on. But I am trying to improve myself all the time. Surely thats all we can do.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote princessemma
    I will eat things that do not contain eggs or dairy but are 'made in a factory that uses milk/eggs.'
    I still consider this very vegan. They clean the machines between uses, and it promotes sharing of one facility, verses having seperate "vegan facilities" which would contribute to more waste in the form of polution, more building costs, more electricity used, more polution from building the metal machinery for more than one factory, more metal mined for the machinery, etc.

    1 factory verses 10 is definately better in my mind. If the world was perfect, vegan companies would obviously share with other vegan companies, but unfortunately it is not.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    for what it's worth, sheila, it sounds like you're on that slippery slope that leads towards being an environmentalist... you wouldn't be asking if you weren't thinking about it, you already do a lot more than a lot of people (including one i live with who thinks he's an environmentalist, but that's another story for another time.... some parents! sheesh).

    i think i'd have to be vegan no matter what. i'm trying to make up some scenario in which it would be detrimental to the environment, just for the question's sake, and i can't think of anything that changes my mind. everything i think of, i think of a way around it...

    but i don't think that's really what you're asking. you want to know how strong other people's environmentalist tendancies go, right?

    for the most part we recycle what we can. we reuse what we can (i think that in some instances, reusing is better than recycling, because you're using something to the end of it's usefullness, rather than chucking it at first chance-- even recycling takes resources, you know?). but, i will admit that there are times that i chuck a glass bottle or a drink can into a rubbish bin while out and about. i make believe that someone is going to come along and dig through the bin to get all the recyclables out so they can make a bit of money at the recycling centre... but it doesn't work that way here. i really must stop doing this! find a way to hide my soda evidence (yeah, that's the main reason i do this... i don't want my husband to know that i drink about a soda a week... pathetic, hey?).

    if your leather car seats don't bother you, i think it makes perfect sense to use them up, considering you weren't vegan when you bought them. as far as cars go, we don't drive. we imagine one day we will, but at the moment, it's not necessary for us. we have a good bus and train system. when we lived in california we both had cars, and bryce had a long commute. i will admit that i didn't drive as much as i might have, but that was more about me than about the environment-- i dislike driving.

    i am constantly being reminded that i need to turn off computers, lights, the oven..... it's something i know i should do, but it's not habit. i'm working on this. i don't know why it isn't habit. one day it will be!


    anyway, it sounds like your thoughts are getting there, you know some areas in your life that you could change, and you probably will start to soon.

    take recycling-- it's remarkably easy to do, but you usually don't realize that until a few months after you've started doing it. get a couple extra bins, put them in easy to get to places, and start sorting your recycling at home. contact your city, or look in the phone book for places to recycle.

    dream of an electric hummer

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    hannah, 28 (vegan), bryce, 28 (ovolacto), xylia born january 2005 (vegan)

  24. #24
    vegan1969
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    If you save the planet in an attempt to sustain life, assuming that's the reason for saving the environment, and kill off large amounts of life that's on the planet (eating animals) then it seems somewhat redundant to me. There is a flip side to this, in the long run if you harm the environment to the point that it can no longer sustain any life and all life dies as a result then that is also redundant.

    I guess you would have to tally up the number of all the animals killed, in the meantime, while you're trying to save the environment and compare to the number of lives saved in the long run. It almost sounds like a loose-loose situation, you either directly kill billions of lives (animals) along the way to save who knows how many lives in the long run.

    If you are directly killing animals from now to infinity in an attempt to save the planet, I have a feeling and would love to know for certain, then the billions of animals killed yearly along the way will probably be much higher than the amount of lives saved in the long run. Your question could lead into a long debate or a book.

    I'm going to have to say that I want to preserve the earth yet my main concerns are for the immediate animal and human life on the planet.

    I would definately still be vegan.

  25. #25
    Maisiepaisie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Is their anyone here who would wash out and recycle a forgotten jar/can of mould found lurking at the back of the fridge? If there is then you should be proud of yourself! I'm always chucking these away

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Yeah Maisie Paisie - I certainly would - having recycled for so long now I could no more bring myself to throw glass in the normal waste as I could eat meat again. I don't know the ins and outs of whether recycling uses more energy than not and living in Switzerland it is certainly much easier than the UK (so I have heard) BUT it really is easy to get into the habit. I hope you will try - as someone said many many people are meat eaters because they think veganism is too much like hard work and we of course know different.
    This is meant to be encouragement not criticism - please don't anyone take it the wrong way.
    Have a lovely day
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    perfect RedWellies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Maisiepaisie
    Is their anyone here who would wash out and recycle a forgotten jar/can of mould found lurking at the back of the fridge? o
    I would. It's only mould! I recycle the cardboard bits from toilet rolls too! But I'm sure I do lots of bad things in other ways! None of us is perfect. We just all have to do our bit I think and hope it all helps!
    "Do what you can with what you have where you are."
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    You can use the web to research the effects of meat eating on the environment. John Robbins also has great information on how being veg*n helps to save the earth.

    Don't forget the three Rs of environmentalism: reduce, re-use, recycle.

    Note recycle comes last. You should reduce consumption, re-use as much as possible, and recycle everything else.

  29. #29

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    There is no way that being a vegan could possibly harm the environment, the opposite is true.
    Read
    http://www.viva.org.uk/guides/planetonaplate.htm
    for an explanation!
    And as for human-made global warming, I find it is usually the people whose lifestyle its existence threatens, who deny it the most loudly.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

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    Eating Wildflower's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Maisiepaisie
    Is their anyone here who would wash out and recycle a forgotten jar/can of mould found lurking at the back of the fridge? If there is then you should be proud of yourself! I'm always chucking these away
    I have someone hired in to do that for me. Hee hee, I am cheap, and partner is way better at dealing with smelly moldy things - yucky!

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    i recycle ALL paper products and ALL glass/plastic/metal/tin products. im lucky enough to live in a city that has regular recycle pick up every 2 weeks. well actually, theyre so against not recycling, that if you dont recycle, they wont take your garbage.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote foxytina_69
    iwell actually, theyre so against not recycling, that if you dont recycle, they wont take your garbage.
    Wow, I wish my city was that passionate about recycling! Actually I wish all cities were like this...
    You can't live a perfect day without doing something for someone who will never be able to repay you.
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    codebug is right, recycling is the least important out of reduce, re use, recycle. There is so much stuff generated in recycling in the UK it gets shipped out to third world countries for them to deal with, as there aren't enough recycling plants in the UK. Plastic is the most difficult material to recycle.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  34. #34
    Eating Wildflower's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote foxytina_69
    i recycle ALL paper products and ALL glass/plastic/metal/tin products. im lucky enough to live in a city that has regular recycle pick up every 2 weeks. well actually, theyre so against not recycling, that if you dont recycle, they wont take your garbage.
    my parents city is like this - you get fined if you get caught putting recyclables in the trash!

  35. #35

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    we do too, only for cans and bottles with a deposit, though.. i get so upset when i go to states that don't have a deposit.... it is strange to see people just throw those things out...the only reason why most of michigan doesn't is beacuse of the 10 cent deposit... whatever works

  36. #36
    Eating Wildflower's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    My friend used to live in Kzoo. I remember there was (i think) a $2 charge to buy a case of beer - then you get it back when you bring your bottles back.

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    it definitely works... and if you are lazy like i am you get a pretty good collection of cans and bottles.. my cousin just came over and took all of ours from the garage- she made $40 if not young relatives, there are always homeless people that can do your recycling....it helps everyone

  38. #38
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    yes we have tons of bottles. we keep a plastic bag up at all times to put empty bottles/cans in so we can take them back for recycling for money.

    wildflower, we get fined too if we put recyclables in our garbage!
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  39. #39
    Sheila's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    My hopes will have to be for an electric hummer. I was doing some research on what is the difference between a passenger car and an SUV.

    "SUV's have a significant environmental impact even beyond the problem of global warming. Federal law gives heavy sport utility vehicles permission to emit higher levels of toxic and noxious pollution - carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, and nitrogen oxides. Sport utility vehicles can spew 30 percent more carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons and 75 percent more nitrogen oxides than passenger cars. (13) These combustion pollutants contribute to eye and throat irritation, coughing, nausea, dizziness, fatigue, confusion and headaches. Hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides are precursors to ground level ozone, which causes asthma and lung damage. (14)"

    Here's a link to the full report: http://www.suv.org/environ.html
    "Take the path of least harm"

  40. #40
    Eating Wildflower's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I never understood why people felt they needed a Hummer.

    Is it just that they look cool, or is there some sort of use for them? Or do they hold a lot more people then a mini van or regular SUV? I guess I don't know much about them, other than they were ripped off from military vehicles that can off road onto anything, and drive over landmines and the like. Not much of a need for that here in the US.

    The thing that makes me most mad, is people who have trucks, when they live in the city or subburbs and have never hauled anything in their lives. What's the freaken point? Pay twice as much, get half the car? Studies have shown that they are very unsafe to have kids in the back of too, I even heard one news report that actually said, DO NOT PUT YOUR KIDS IN YOUR TRUCK! If you actually have a use for it, then fine, buy a truck. But if you just think it's cool because "it's a truck" then you need to get a life.

    It's a big part of the culture here to have a truck, like you're not a real man or something if you don't drive one. freaken rednecks.

  41. #41
    AR Activist Roxy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    We bought a truck before I became vegan. It's annoying and I wish we didn't have it. However, as my partner put it on HIS line of credit, I guess he had the final decision as to what he wanted to buy.

    He does get use out of it, as he drives from Vancouver to Kelowna a few times a year to see his Mum, and especially in the winter, it is safer for him to drive a truck through the icey, snowy mountain ranges.

    I wish we just had a small, little car that wasn't such an environmental hazzard.

    But on the other hand, we do quite a bit to help the environment and try to adhere to the "reduce, re-use, recycle" rules as much as we can. We also try to encourage others to do the same.

  42. #42
    Eating Wildflower's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I agree Roxy, other actions help to balance out the not so great ones.

    I always feel guilty for taking long showers, but I feel I have some environmental karma on my side so to speak. LOL!

    Sounds as though your partner has a reason to own a truck, if he drives in bad weather conditions and it handles well. Some friends I have bought trucks for that reason, but then got rear wheel drive ones that become skate boards on ice!

  43. #43
    Goddess foxytina_69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    ive always wanted a black hummer lol. i just think theyre pretty! but yeah they are so bad for the environment!

    my boyfriend and i want to buy a truck. we find it much more useful than a car. we can go pick up wood during the winter, we can travel to places with it with lots of luggage and other things (we travel alot to go see my dad, especially during the summer, and its always so hard with all our stuff) we can throw alot of stuff we have to get rid of in the back (were always needing my dad to come down with his truck for the back of it) etc.

    neither of us particularly likes trucks, but clearly it would be much smarter of us to buy a truck, than a car, considering our lifestyle.
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  44. #44
    Sheila's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    Quote Wildflower
    I never understood why people felt they needed a Hummer.

    Is it just that they look cool, or is there some sort of use for them? Or do they hold a lot more people then a mini van or regular SUV? I guess I don't know much about them, other than they were ripped off from military vehicles that can off road onto anything, and drive over landmines and the like. Not much of a need for that here in the US. ....

    ....It's a big part of the culture here to have a truck, like you're not a real man or something if you don't drive one. freaken rednecks.
    As far as a Hummer goes I really don't like SUV's but there's something sexy about the original Hummers. Not the H2 or H3 but straight almost military. Go figure because I would be perfectly happy driving an electric golf cart to the store not very sexy but really practical.

    I understand the truck thing all too well. The people here though who have trucks are usually contractors who need to haul their stuff in them. If you cross the state line and get a little farther into South Carolina it is red neck central. Not just trucks, but big jacked up ones.

    In my own house my husband will not have any other vehicle for himself but an SUV. He's currently driving a Tahoe. I'm not happy about it but he refuses to own a 'car'. I must say that it does come in handy though. His can seat 7 or 8 people and he is in real estate so that is almost a requirement. It also is good for hauling around stuff. You can drop all of the seats down and we actually were able to put a full size fridge in the back of it. So it's more practical then a truck since you can fit a bunch of people in it and haul the same amount of stuff.

    Sheila
    "Take the path of least harm"

  45. #45

    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I would still be vegan.

    If I care for myself I am in a better position to care for the planet. If there was a finding that "activity X" of the vegan lifestyle was damaging the environment, then I would try to find a way to minimize "activity X" in my life.

  46. #46
    sheri beri's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I actually love the Hummers, i like the looks but own one never........I recently found out they are harmful to the enviorment so thats, that i will not support them....
    Mother nature doesn't except excuses only man does.....

  47. #47

    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I have gotten into trouble with vegan folks before for pointing out that a lot of substitutes for leather and other animal products are made from plastics, and while they may not be directly harming an animal, they are contributing to pollution, environmental degradation, and disease. It doesn't seem much better! I totally agree with the statement made that reducing consumption and reusing what you already have is as important, if not more, than buying lots of new stuff and tossing it in the recycling bin. There's where I also get into trouble with some vegans - I continue to use wool, leather and other non-vegan goods I already have because I don't think it's making the world a better place to go out and buy all new everything. I think we'd all be a lot better off if people just quit buying crap right and left, regardless of what it is. So if I ditch my leather jacket I've had for 15 years, I'll have to go buy a new coat of some kind, which probably either polluted the environment, was made by an abused human in some sweat shop, etc etc. For me, it's not as simple as just avoiding things that have animal products. It's about leaving a lighter footprint and engaging in conscious consumerism. If I have to or wish to buy something new, I read labels. What's in it, where was it made, etc. I try to make the best choice possible bearing in mind a wide range of considerations. To me, cruelty free also means not cruel to the environment and not cruel to people... and since nothing is 100% innocuous, I just try and make the lowest-impact choice I can. Almost always this entails choosing vegan products (it's hard to get more high-impact than the animal industry), but I don't make any assumptions and try to judge each purchase on its own merits or lack thereof. I get things used, freecycled, etc whenever possible.

    I want to emphasize that this is just how I look at it - this works for me and I'm not slamming anyone who would disagree or make different choices. I think everyone here is laudable because we are all doing what we can to make the world a better place.
    For innumerable reasons, the Bodhisattva, whose nature is compassion, is not to eat any meat. -- The Buddha, Lankavatara Sutra

  48. #48

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    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I agree wih ness about not throwing away non vegan stuff and using secondhand stuff ad ethically made stuff and that plastic is polluting. However it is worth mentioning that factory farming is also intensively polluting, and most leather comes from factory farming.
    It is also worth pointing out that if you throw your non vegan stuff in the bin it goes to landfill, which is polluting and taking up more of the Earth's surface each day.
    As Stephen Hawking is now supporting the colonisation of other planets I think we should really look after this one. I don't know whats got into that man but the idea of 'disposable planet' is becoming widespread.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  49. #49

    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I'd still be vegan! I mean its the thought of eating spicies which i am a part of is so horrific! It would be like telling me, 'would you eat another human being?'

  50. #50

    Default Re: Would you be a vegan if it harmed the environment?

    I'd be vegan if it was bad for the environment.

    In fact, it can be pretty bad if you eat only foods that travel great distances and are chemical intensive and pair that with foods that are greatly processed and need lots of energy to consume, and you do this at restaurants instead of at home. It's possible...

    Regardless, I'm all for saving the environment, but I think that individual actions (like buying energy efficient lighbulbs) without the public action are a waste of time while creating a nice new market for others to profit from. The means of production need to change, not the means of a few individual's consumption.
    context is everything

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