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Thread: Meat made in a lab?

  1. #1
    essence_uk
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    Angry Meat made in a lab?

    Bjorn Carey
    LiveScience Staff Writer
    LiveScience.com Thu Jul 7, 3:05 PM ET

    Scientists have proposed two new techniques for growing meat in a lab by a process that could one day make beef cows obsolete.

    Don't toss out those beef steaks just yet, however. The technology is in its infant stages and it is not clear whether large-scale production will work. It's not known, for example, how to exercise an animal that doesn't exist, in order to give lab meat the full range of cow-like qualities.

    Currently, small amounts of edible fish can be created in the lab. But University of Maryland doctoral student Jason Matheny says that this process could be adapted on an industrial scale -- whole factories producing fish sticks without the fish or chicken nuggets without the real birds.

    "With a single cell, you could theoretically produce the world's annual meat supply," Matheny says. "And you could do it in a way that's better for the environment and human health. In the long run, this is a very feasible idea."


    Health benefits

    Lab-grown meats could be designed to be healthier too.

    "For one thing, you could control the nutrients," Matheny says. "For example, most meats are high in the fatty acid Omega 6, which can cause high cholesterol and other health problems. With in vitro meat, you could replace that with Omega 3, which is a healthy fat."

    Cultured meats would reduce the environmental burden that comes from raising livestock. Also, it wouldn't need to be treated with antibiotics and other drugs that are common in the industry.

    Scientists have already demonstrated that a single muscle cell from a cow or chicken can be turned into thousands in the lab. But so far, these experiments haven't gone large scale.


    The methods

    To grow meat on large scale, Matheny suggests two methods. One is to grow muscle cells on long, flat membranes. Once the cells are mature, the tissue would be stretched off the membrane and stacked so the product better resembled the real thing.

    The other option would be to grow cells on small, three-dimensional beads that stretch with temperature changes. The cells could be scraped off and turned into processed meat like chicken nuggets or ground beef.

    The trick, however, is to grow something that tastes like real meat. That means growing not just muscle cells, but other types of tissue -- like fat -- as well. Once the taste is good, the texture has to be just right for consumers to buy into the idea.

    "We have to figure out how to 'exercise' the cells. For the right texture, you have to stretch the tissue, like a live animal would," Matheny says.

    Matheny's paper was published in the June 29 issue of the journal Tissue Engineering.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/200507...eebeefproposed
    Last edited by essence_uk; Jul 12th, 2005 at 12:04 AM. Reason: scrambled text

  2. #2
    pixeequeen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    There's something inherently scary about this. As for the idea of not abusing animals for the meat, I guess thats a good thing, but for some reason I'm just not convinced its all rosy. and as for:
    Quote essence_uk
    could one day make beef cows obsolete.
    I hope that cows would be valued as more than just a food source. That cant just be a vegan thing can it?
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    frugivorous aubergine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    I still think I'll prefer vegetables

  4. #4
    essence_uk
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    The crazy thing would be that meat eaters would see it as unnatural and insist animals suffered and were killed for their flesh to keep from "scientists playing god".

    It could never be vegan obviously because the initial cow cells are taken from would be the source. And no pixiequeen, sadly cows don't have any value to 99.9% of human society beyond the milk/flesh production they are exploited for.

  5. #5
    nakaniNumen
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    Default Re: Should Meat Be Illegal?

    Here's food for thought: Scientists are working on artificially creating meat; that is... culturing it from an animal cell. If this method were to replace the raising and slaughter of animals, it would have SERIOUS implications for us veg*ns!

    http://www.sacgreens.org/modules.php...rticle&sid=165
    Australian magazine Gizmag is reporting that scientists experimenting with food production for space travel have developed a technique that could one day allow for wide-scale production of artificial meat. Rather than raising livestock and killing them for food, a single animal cell could be used to produce the edible tissue. From the article: "Cultured meat could also reduce the pollution that results from raising livestock, and you wouldn't need the drugs that are used on animals raised for meat." "On the other hand, cultured meat could appeal to people concerned about food safety, the environment, and animal welfare, and people who want to tailor food to their individual tastes." A lively discussion of how this would effect vegetarianism developed on Slashdot.
    http://science.slashdot.org/article....tid=191&tid=14
    Last edited by flutterby; Nov 27th, 2005 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Post merged with thread of existing topic

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    I don't think this will ever replace conventional breeding and slaughter of animals. It would also not replace dairy and eggs. And since meat is not necessary for human survival I doubt many vegans would start eating a laboratory produced substance that had been tested on animals for safety.

    I see this along the lines of "What if you were on a desert island......"

    In other words, the chances of us seeing the widespread use of lab meat in our time is probably slim.
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    Knolishing Pob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    We don't need animal protein in our diet so it wouldn't interest me. It would probably still be very wasteful of energy, too.

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    I still wouldn't eat it, it's still got no fibre in it, it still tastes of dead flesh. It would still not contain the goodness of whole foods. It would just be an excuse to get fat and unhealthy on meat with a clear consciounce and cook in a lazy way with convenience foods (that spelling's not right is it?).
    If they could grow human meat in a lab would we eat it? I don't think so.
    Silent but deadly :p

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    Default Meat made in a lab??

    Hi All

    I was watching a Canadian news show yesterday and they reported on the potential for meat to be grown in a lab. I don't know how it will work or if the cells it grows out of is originally animal based (you would think so), I missed the first part of it.

    But the researcher claimed that it was non-animal meat. Veggies were then asked if they would eat this meat (that is a processed ground beef, ground chicken style) and some said yes, as it does not come from animals. Weird stuff!

    So would you all eat this meat if it didn't in any way derive from animals? This isn't an issue of consent, but I find the whole thing gross. At the same time it would be nice if it caught on in the omni community. Less animals would suffer as a result.

  10. #10
    Vote VBB veganbikerboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    In principle i haven't got a problem with this, in the end it will be a whole lot more ethical. Even if originally derived from an animal cell this will then continually be replicated, and no future animals should be farmed / killed.

    Practically, i haven't eaten meat for nearly 10 years and even the thought of eating it makes me feel sick. Some vegan stuff is that realistic that i don't like it. so the chances of me eating it are low i would expect.

  11. #11
    feral
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    Quote Aylish
    But the researcher claimed that it was non-animal meat.
    Mmmm the other white meat

    Nope, I couldn't eat it, like vbb meat repeals me to the extent I can't eat meat replacements that are too realistic *bleeeeuugghh*

  12. #12
    saucyvegan
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    I have no problem with eating "meat" that isnt meat. I often buy Veggiemaster "chicken" wings and they smell/shred and taste like chicken but im ok with it as its not a dead carcass in my kitchen. Ive heard of this lab grown meat stuff. Im not certain what it really is but if its animal flesh then it can sod off...yuk just the thought makes me wanna puke!! BUT.....it'd sure be great if the omni's caught on to this and we didnt have animal suffering....bring it on....I hope against hope that its good stuff and it catches on!!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    I'm with Saucy on this one...it could work out for the best! Here's hoping.

  14. #14
    Free & Wild Tray's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    i'll never eat something like that... it can be good to stop abusing over animals for the omivores but i think is going to be something expensive in hydric/alimentary and not good for the environment

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    dorkqueen TofurkyZombie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    I don't think I'd want to eat it! But like saucy said if it stops the mass torture and slaughter of "farm" animals then I'm all for it.

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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    i wonder what new health problems would result from this-

  17. #17
    sugarmouse
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    i agree with bikerboy n saucy.i understand it could be complicated.but we are a nation of flesh eaters and anything that moves on from this is good IMHO.

    i do not think i would eat it though..but then theres a lot of thngs i wont eat...not significant really.

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    I wouldn't eat highly processed chemical food made in a lab, like Kraft Dinner, so I wouldn't eat this either. Beside the point that it is meat, god knows what they do to it in the lab.

  19. #19
    feral
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    *has visions of greenhouse labs full of meat*... eeeeww meat farm!

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    Yeah, I can't even begin to imagine how they would 'grow' it. I keep imagining Matrix like rows of throbbing meat blobs. Mmmmm.

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    Quote Aylish
    Yeah, I can't even begin to imagine how they would 'grow' it. I keep imagining Matrix like rows of throbbing meat blobs. Mmmmm.


    That made me a little gaggy just imagining it!
    "Man can do as he wills, but not will as he wills" - Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab??

    Quote feral

    Nope, I couldn't eat it, like vbb meat repeals me to the extent I can't eat meat replacements that are too realistic *bleeeeuugghh*
    Same here!

    Quote Tray
    i'll never eat something like that... it can be good to stop abusing over animals for the omivores but i think is going to be something expensive in hydric/alimentary and not good for the environment
    I agree with this Tray. I think it's "too good to be true" and I think that it would cause considerable environmental damage and who can even imagine what kinds of other problems. Best case scenario is that it doesn't cause any major problems and stops animal abuse...that would be great for those who want it, but I wouldn't eat it.
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    The taste of meat is revolting. So cow or no-cow, is of least botheration to me. I don't like the smell of meat.

    But if this is possible, it could be a chance for many carnivores to make the transition into veganism.
    Life is like a boomerang: What goes around comes around - "Karma"rocks!

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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    The health implications of eating animal protiens and fats are pretty dire, and it wouldn't change if they were synthesized.

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    Default Cloning and Cruelty Free Meat

    So probably a few weeks ago to a month ago I was watching the news and I saw that they are currently working on figuring out a way to clone animal cells for meat. They mentioned on the show that this would solve a lot of problems for people because no harm is done to the animals when getting the cell to clone and so no animals are slaughtered during the process. The meat is then cloned directly from the cell so its not like they clone a whole other animal and slaughter that one - theres just no death involved. They said that this would make it okay for vegetarians to eat meat now because its completely cruelty-free (the procedure to get cells causes no pain).

    What do you all think? Would you eat the cloned cruelty-free meat?? why or why not?
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    Default Re: Cloning and Cruelty Free Meat

    No thanks, I don't want all the flesh related diseases thanks. I'll stick to my low in fat, high in fibre fruit and veg. Just think of the fat globules! Would you want to eat cloned human flesh?
    Silent but deadly :p

  27. #27
    Abe Froman Risker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cloning and Cruelty Free Meat

    Sounds like soylent green to me.

  28. #28
    Seaside
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    Default Re: Cloning and Cruelty Free Meat

    They said that this would make it okay for vegetarians to eat meat now because its completely cruelty-free (the procedure to get cells causes no pain).
    I always get annoyed when omnis assume that we are all pining away with almost unbearable deprivation, and all we live for is the hope that someday cruelty-free steak will become a reality.

  29. #29
    Blueshark
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    Default Re: Cloning and Cruelty Free Meat

    Quote Seaside
    I always get annoyed when omnis assume that we are all pining away with almost unbearable deprivation, and all we live for is the hope that someday cruelty-free steak will become a reality.
    I agree, and I also believe such a train of thought would not arise from a happy individual.

  30. #30
    Rahil
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    Default Re: Cow-free Beef Proposed

    Quote essence_uk
    The crazy thing would be that meat eaters would see it as unnatural and insist animals suffered and were killed for their flesh to keep from "scientists playing god".

    It could never be vegan obviously because the initial cow cells are taken from would be the source. And no pixiequeen, sadly cows don't have any value to 99.9% of human society beyond the milk/flesh production they are exploited for.
    exactly.

    this is just like what i stated to people on a local forum who came with a similar hypothesis to me -


    Question put to me -
    "so let's say, in the very near future, man is able to somehow clone/generate skeletal muscle tissue from an animal..
    to produce meat that would be say, normally found in a chicken breast.. what would be the case then? the source of meat had no life/soul. and there was no murder. unless you taking things to a cellular level as well."




    my Reply -
    "wait wait why? why?

    and you say it is not an addiction??


    why are you all intent on exploiting these creatures?!

    just leave them alone

    why should you have to come with some other way now of trying to exploit them?


    why do you have to try to go thru all that just for the sake of this flesh/bloodthirst..

    all nutrition and food is available without any murder and exploitation like this.

    why do you still in this human body have to still try with all your technology to be making more degraded ideas for the sake of bloodthirst..



    as for your 'challenge' of 'not murder' in that case - how then did they 'somehow clone/generate skeletal muscle tissue from an animal.. '

    the original animal had to be interfered with not so?

    leave the thing alone! it not bothering yuh! "

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    Angry "Cruelty Free" Meat

    I was very upset that in the latest issue of Vegetarian Times, they talked about a new "cruelty free" meat that is bioengineered by taking cells from an animal and making it into tissue that is then ground up. I was sickened and really kind of disappointed that Vegetarian Times would put an article like this in their mag, making it look like eating meat like this would be okay. What do you all think?
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  32. #32
    vegan1969
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    I think it's disgusting and would never eat it personally. I prefer people to go vegan but would rather see them eat 'lab meat' than an animal. So disgusting!

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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    It is true that it would be better than eating a slaughtered animal, but at the same time I am absolutely grossed out by it. Something so genetically engineered is scary to me. And imo there are still animals being exploited becuase they have to get the genes from somewhere.
    Peace Love Surf.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    The taste of "flesh" is unappetizing to me. I stopped eating meat long before I knew anything about animal suffering, and I would never eat meat again, no matter what they're able to come up with. Vegetables are so much more appealing!
    "Animals are my friends... and I don't eat my friends". ~ George Bernhard Shaw.

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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    Sentient animals are still used to produce it; therefore it's not "cruelty-free", it's just "cruelty-lite".

  36. #36
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    Very strange. Shouldn't V times say in the same breath that meat is still unhealthy and "this" is the means by which they extract it?
    Seems to me that they could have presented the facts and let people make up their own minds based on their reasons for being veg. I wonder if the energy input into this would be the same?
    it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble

  37. #37
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    Quote moochbabe
    It is true that it would be better than eating a slaughtered animal, but at the same time I am absolutely grossed out by it. Something so genetically engineered is scary to me. And imo there are still animals being exploited becuase they have to get the genes from somewhere.
    The technology uses cell cultures - as far as I know - none of it is GM - unless you take it from a GM organism.

    I am more concerned about where they are getting the nutrients to feed the cell cultures. It has to be sterile and fairly pure and I would bet that it was extracted from one of the animal industries. Bovine serum is commonly used.
    "if compassion is extreme, then call me an extremist"

  38. #38
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    The only advantage I can see in this if it was in fact 100% cruelty free is that I would no longer beat myself up about feeding my cats meat.
    I wouldn't eat it though! Our diet is much more healthy.
    Silent but deadly :p

  39. #39

    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    no, it's just wrong. it's unnatural, and we don't know what the long-term issues about it would be. and i don't know - to me it's kind of a moral thing too; i think that people who cannot stop eating meat, just from the knowledge that the animals get abused, are evil, stupid or weak.
    and i have serious issues about doing something that unnatural. just think about how it could affect the earth? i'd rather just make a law that no-one is allowed to eat meat, or do something that would affect HUMANS in a bad way - not the earth or the animals. honestly, i don't think it can be everyone else's problem that humans do stuid things over and over again.

    and btw. animal flesh don't get any healthier by being brought up in a lab.

  40. #40
    mangababe rianaelf's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    bunch of PERVERTS if u ask me anythink

    i mean, why eat meat in the first place? why would anyone want to eat another living being <actually a dead being> and yeah, trying to conjure up an image of how they would do it and what it would look like

  41. #41
    CATWOMAN sandra's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    The whole idea of this is creepy! When will they learn that animals are here to be along side us, not inside us!

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    Default Re: "Cruelty Free" Meat

    i think the thing that made me especially upset was the fact that the peta spokesperson was on there saying "peta backs this completely--it'd be great!" (in so many words) I was like how can peta promote any kind of meat consumption and animal exploitation (cuz like i said before: they gotta get the cells from somewhere)
    Peace Love Surf.

  43. #43
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Dutch boffins tout green petri-dish synthetic meat

    Dutch bio-boffins are seeking to sate modern consumer lust for animal flesh by growing artificial pig tissue from stem cells.

    According to a Reuters report, academics at Utrecht University reckon that vat-grown synthi-pork would benefit the environment and involve less cruelty than current methods. In particular, methane greenhouse gas emissions from pig farts would become a thing of the past.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06...c_spam_horror/
    Last edited by flutterby; Jun 8th, 2007 at 07:40 PM. Reason: this was the 1st post in a similar thread
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  44. #44
    BlackCats
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    Default Re: Dutch boffins tout green petri-dish synthetic meat

    I heard about something like this before on another forum but I thought it was science fiction.
    I'm not sure what I think as it could be argued its a good idea that if humans are hellbent on continuing to eat animals then at least this idea reduces their suffering.

    I like that charming statement - "Animals need to grow, and animals produce many things that you do not eat."
    Why do the pesky animals make things so damn awkward for us humans?
    Last edited by BlackCats; Jun 5th, 2007 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Spelling!

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    Default Re: Dutch boffins tout green petri-dish synthetic meat

    A similar story from a couple of years ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4148164.stm

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    Default Re: Dutch boffins tout green petri-dish synthetic meat

    All I can say about this is: if people choose to eat that instead of real meat from an animal, then I'm not going to stand in their way. I don't think you'll find me eating it though.
    How good it is to be well-fed, healthy, and kind all at the same time. Henry J. Heimlich

  47. #47
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Dutch boffins tout green petri-dish synthetic meat

    my thoughts exactly, Cumin.

  48. #48
    Mahk
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    Default Re: lab meat

    This "in vitro cultured meat" is no longer just a hypothetical concept; it really exists. Currently at thousands of dollars per pound it has no real world application, but at least one company believes that in 6 years they could have a product on the market:

    "Meat Without Murder"

    I personally haven't formed an opinion yet, but here's some food for thought:
    What is the source of the amino acids they bathe it in? Animal or vegetable? Will they test it on animals? If it does one day become financially viable, and saves thousands of cows from slaughter, maybe it makes sense to support its production even if one personally avoids the stuff?
    Last edited by Korn; Sep 4th, 2007 at 10:38 AM. Reason: This and the following three posts came from another thread

  49. #49
    Klytemnest
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    Default Re: Lab meat

    xrodolfox;354263]This is interesting!

    I agree that with those reasons for why it's wrong to eat meat.

    However, I think that until we get to an ideal social situation, there also exists many political reasons why eating any meat, manufactured in a lab or not, would not fit that agenda. My first reason for being quite strict about my veganism is ethics. Father down the line is Politics, and with that comes being aware of what social impact my veganism plays. For me to have a more powerful social impact, I try to also be consistent with the meaning of my actions. If my actions regarding animal consumption can be seen as inconsistent, then my impact is lessened. Thus, to consume one kind of meat produced in a lab while not another, produced by suffering or usery is at the very least muddles my social impact.
    I don't understand. And I really want to because you are very smart. When people ask me why it is that I am a vegan I tell them that it is primarily because of ethics, because of animal suffering. And THAT is the impact I wish to... impact, I guess, on others. I want them to become aware of the ethical issue. Eating meat produced in a lab would not cuase suffering, would not end an animal's life, therefore it would not be hypocritical of me to eat such meat. Nor do I see why this would confuse people as to what being vegan is about. Because, for me at least, that is what being vegan is about - minmizing unnecessary animal suffering (that includes caring for the environment). In the world in which we live, a world in which meat can only be acquired by killing an animal, that translates to "no animal products". But meat produced in a lab would not be an animal product. This is why, as long as we are clear with our message and goal of reducing animal suffering, I think it would not be an ethical or political problem for a vegan to consume meat produced in a lab. Your actions against animal consumptions would NOT be inconsistent, since lab-produced meat would not be animal consumption.

    There is also one other political aspect. I believe that other beings should not be used against their will. In the case of growing meat in a lab, some animal, at one point, had to have their genes harvested for the production of the lab meat. It's the same as with grafting seedless plants. There has to be an original source of DNA.
    Well, this is my fantasy, so you have to play by my rules . Suppose this meat was made from the genes of an animal that lived a happy life in one of the farms of rescued animals and died a natural death. Its genes were not used against its will, since a dead animal has no will. What would be the problem with that?

  50. #50
    Klytemnest
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    Default Re: Lab meat

    Quote Mahk View Post
    This "in vitro cultured meat" is no longer just a hypothetical concept; it really exists. Currently at thousands of dollars per pound it has no real world application, but at least one company believes that in 6 years they could have a product on the market:

    "Meat Without Murder"

    I personally haven't formed an opinion yet, but here's some food for thought:
    What is the source of the amino acids they bathe it in? Animal or vegetable? Will they test it on animals? If it does one day become financially viable, and saves thousands of cows from slaughter, maybe it makes sense to support its production even if one personally avoids the stuff?
    Oh, sweet Jesus! My fantasy is coming true! That's fantastic! Granted, we don't need meat, and according to The China Study, consumption of animal protein is linked to cancer. So, no meat conusmption is best. But can you imagine how much animal suffering would be eliminated if this thing caught on??? I think this is really exciting. Wow.

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