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Thread: Meat made in a lab?

  1. #101

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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    I prefer to take my data directly from the companies which are actually working on this technology rather than the third party analysis of that animal rights attorney, Doris Lin, writing an undocumented and citation/reference free article, freelance, with the dubious title of "Guide", for a generic web information site: "about.com".
    Should we take our data directly from Proctor and Gamble on the issue of whether animal testing is necessary to produce household cleansers? Or perhaps we should ask Smithfield whether pork production has anything to do with the H1N1 virus?

    Animal agriculture is thousands of years old, and it is still inefficient. The reason it's still being done is that it's financially subsidized by the government, in the U.S. And we all pay the price environmentally.

  2. #102
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote VeganD View Post
    Should we take our data directly from Proctor and Gamble on the issue of whether animal testing is necessary to produce household cleansers? Or perhaps we should ask Smithfield whether pork production has anything to do with the H1N1 virus?
    Should we take data from biased, inexperienced laywers with no expertise on lab meat technologies, making claims without documentation as to "how it will be" and its "efficiency" and "animal use"?

    Proctor and Gamble/animal testing and Smithfield/H1N1 are red herrings and have nothing to do with this thread. Start new threads or join existing ones if you want to discuss them.

    Animal agriculture is thousands of years old, and it is still inefficient.
    And maybe its fundamental problem was the slow, inefficient production of a complete organism over years rather that the only part that was really valued; the meat.

    The reason it's still being done is that it's financially subsidized by the government, in the U.S.
    In their continuing efforts to kill as many livestock as is humanly possible for pleasure? or cause heart disease in the US? Surly they must have some dastardly purpose to "force" us to eat meat.

    I disagree. It is because of consumer demand.

  3. #103
    Buddha Belly
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    ^ The King of wikipedia quotes and pointless analogies does speak of correct sources and sticking to thread subjects!!!

    I know what I said in an earlier thread but naff it....

  4. #104

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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    Should we take data from biased, inexperienced laywers with no expertise on lab meat technologies, making claims without documentation as to "how it will be" and its "efficiency" and "animal use"?
    I have no experience in lab meat technologies, but I do have experience in cell culture (please note my degree in applied biological sciences from MIT), and I know that immortal pork muscle cell lines for human consumption are not currently a reality. Even the animal exploiters you quoted admit it. They use the phrase "in theory" when referring to a single cell feeding the global population for a year.

    They also say, "It is possible, however, that genetically-modifying a muscle cell would allow it to proliferate a greater number of times in culture, and may thus make cultured meat production more economical." This means that they do not yet have immortal muscle cell lines.

    So, even if you prefer to take your data from the exploiters, it's the same data that I have provided you. If you want truly unbiased, expert information on the subject of cell senescence, I encourage you to read the links that I previously provided.

    You were questioning why a producer would manufacture a product in an inefficient manner, and the reason is the government subsidy. Without the subsidy, you are correct - they would not produce the product in an inefficient manner. Without the subsidy, they would have to charge a fair price for their product, and the price would reflect the wasteful amount of resources required to produce meat.

  5. #105
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Buddha Belly View Post
    ^ The King of wikipedia quotes and pointless analogies does speak of correct sources and sticking to thread subjects!!!
    Thank you for your kind words. I'll try to make my analogies simpler and easier for you to understand in the future.

    I know what I said in an earlier thread but naff it..
    I don't think me nor the administrators mind if you say it over and over again ad nauseum, carried over from thread to thread; so go ahead and do it as much as you'd like. I don't care.
    Last edited by Mahk; Dec 28th, 2009 at 08:55 PM.

  6. #106
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote VeganD View Post
    You were questioning why a producer would manufacture a product in an inefficient manner, and the reason is the government subsidy. Without the subsidy, you are correct - they would not produce the product in an inefficient manner. Without the subsidy, they would have to charge a fair price for their product, and the price would reflect the wasteful amount of resources required to produce meat.
    But you didn't answer my question. Why does the government subsidize? What is their motive to make food production inefficient, costly, artery clogging, and causes suffering?

    This means that they do not yet have immortal muscle cell lines.
    Key word "yet". Technology progresses; it's not stagnant.

  7. #107
    Buddha Belly
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    I'll try to make my analogies simpler and easier for you to understand in the future.

    I don't think me nor the administrators mind if you say it over and over again ad nauseum, so go ahead and do it as much as you'd like. I don't care.
    ?

  8. #108

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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Mahk View Post
    But you didn't answer my question. Why does the government subsidize? What is their motive to make food production inefficient, costly, artery clogging, and causes suffering?
    This is perhaps off-topic, but . . .

    I believe that meat is subsidized in order to continue the illusion of prosperity and seemingly limitless resources in the United States and because the meat industry is a powerful lobby. As long as we have this illusion of prosperity, people will continue voting for the status quo. And if members of Congress keep voting for the subsidy, they will continue to receive campaign contributions from the meat industry's political arm.

    There is great consumer demand for video games, luxury cars, and flat screen TVs. But (as far as I know) these products are not subsidized by the government, and I believe it's largely political.

  9. #109
    Mahk
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote VeganD View Post
    I believe that meat is subsidized in order to continue the illusion of prosperity and seemingly limitless resources in the United States
    For what? "World prestige"? Ala "Look how much meat we consume compared to you, third world. Ha Ha, we're better because we do more!"

    There is great consumer demand for video games, luxury cars, and flat screen TVs.
    And also meat, don't you think?

  10. #110
    Buddha Belly
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Meat has always been a luxury item to all societies and it has not been until the last 40-50 years that people in the Western world have enjoyed it's dinner time presence on a daily basis. Most of the population never ate meat except on special occasions and then it was poor conditioned and in small doses.

    After WW2 western societies used anti-rationing and the availability of luxury items to show how advanced they were as opposed to communist and third world nations. Their was huge prestige in feeding the entire country and meat was the item that was the most prized food item. It has now been put into national psyches that meat and consumer goods are the rewards of a successful nation and to be enjoyed as a right.
    Look at adverts, meat is a right that is to be enjoyed by the population as it shows how far we have come. ''look we can supply this ,luxury food to everyone at a cheap cost, aren't we great''

  11. #111
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Buddha Belly View Post
    ^ The King of wikipedia quotes and pointless analogies does speak of correct sources and sticking to thread subjects!!!

    I know what I said in an earlier thread but naff it....
    Don't feed him BB!!

  12. #112
    snivelingchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    I used to like this forum. and it was because the people here knew how to argue. meh, I give up.

  13. #113
    Dzrtrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    No matter what your ethical alignment may be, it never fails that man will create something to solve a problem and in it's wake create a multitude of other problems in the process which will effect everyone.

  14. #114
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote snivelingchild View Post
    I used to like this forum. and it was because the people here knew how to argue. meh, I give up.
    Hi Sc

    Don't know why but some threads are better than others and there can be a genuine exchange of ideas. Don't give up just yet. Be like me and hope that things will be better in 2010.

    All the best

    leedsveg
    Last edited by leedsveg; Dec 30th, 2009 at 03:42 PM. Reason: deter pedants

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    you put a smile on my face in this thread! just for that!

  16. #116
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Wow sc!

    I just woke up, it's 2010 and I'm still alive! Hope you are too.

    Shall I have some hypothetical lab meat bacon on toast to celebrate the New Year? Nah, think I'll just wait for it to actually arrive in my local shop before I make any decisions. Meanwhile, I think I'll have a spot of porridge with a little added ginger and turmeric.

    Cheers!

    lv

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    I am pretty sure I would eat it. Unless I become more interested in self health. I could perhaps eventually lose the desire to eat animal products.

    In my mind now though, meat tastes pretty good, and I have never eaten any really fulfilling imitation meat.

    Kind of tells you I am not a vegan for myself. I am a vegan for them.

    Anyways, I think it would be ethical to support something like this even if you aren't interested in the product personally. Does anyone disagree?
    Last edited by Seth; Jan 2nd, 2010 at 04:06 PM.
    "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect."

  18. #118
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Seth View Post
    Kind of tells you I am not a vegan for myself. I am a vegan for them.
    "If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?"

    Rabbi Hillel

  19. #119
    Dzrtrat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Quote Seth View Post
    .............
    Anyways, I think it would be ethical to support something like this even if you aren't interested in the product personally. Does anyone disagree?
    I think (and this is only my opinion) that it is imposable to create something like this without exploiting an animal in some way..and at what point does life begin?? At what point should respect begin for life?? Our understanding comes from our comprehension...that doesn't mean we are right. To answer your question...Yes I disagree and no I would not support this, I think we are asking for trouble.

  20. #120
    leedsveg
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?

    Hi Dz

    Somewhere in the process animals will be exploited, we can be sure of that.

    lv

  21. #121
    Prawnil
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    Default Re: Meat made in a lab?


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