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Thread: Teetotal, no alcohol - support

  1. #1
    Antonia's Avatar
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    Default Teetotal, no alcohol - support

    I've recently made the decision to stop drinking alcohol. Support is lacking amongst friends etc. I can't even find any good articles or books. Books seem to be about how to give up drink if you're an alcoholic. Articles seem to recommend drinking in moderation.

    I am gradually refining my lifestyle and diet and want to be the best person that I can, which includes doing the best I can for my health and spirituality.

    I would love to hear from any other non-drinkers about their experiences, any advice they might have and any suggestions for where to look for more information, particularly about the negative effects of alcohol.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Hi Antonia,

    Well done on your decision if you think it is the best thing for you. I used to drink as a teenager but never got very much out of it and so stopped more or less altogether when I started driving. I probably would enjoy a glass of red wine but have never and still don't miss it in the slightest and am more than happy to not drink so I can drive and not rely on anyone else to get me home!

    Attitudes to my non drinking were quite tough when I was younger (you will be used to this as a vegan) - in the end I used to say I was a recovering alcoholic just to be left in peace..... desperate measures - you shouldn't have to explain any decision to anyone.

    What non drinking has done for me over the years is saved me a huge amount of money which I have spent on travelling so in that way it is very good and has probably saved me from being even fatter than I am!!!
    I have nothing against drinking at all, my partner, all my friends and family drink (some to excess) - what I don't like is drink driving, people who get aggressive when drunk (any city in the UK on fri / sat night for example) and people who blame bad behaviour on drinking (ie I slept with my girlfriends mate but it's ok cos I was drunk!) whether I have missed out on a fantastic social life, I can't say, you do tend to go home earlier when the drinkers start getting drunk and talking b******ks!

    Do I sound sanctimonious - I guess so!!!! Don't mean to criticise anyone, it is just that alcohol is not my drug of choice - I prefer the very occasional joint (once every 10 years or so!!) or just getting high on life - but i did want to point out there is quite a lot of peer pressure to drink in my experience - guess you can handle it if you can handle being vegan.

    I think I talked too much

    All for now
    Hetfield

  3. #3
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    If this is what you want for yourself, then congratulations!

    I've been a nondrinker pretty much my entire life. I have tasted alcohol before, but pretty much nonstop since the age of 12 I've been Straight Edge.

    Like the above poster mentioned, it saves me a lot of money, and besides that there are many benefits to being perpetually sober. It helps me with the clarity of mind to examine other decisions I make in other areas of my life. It was in one of my deep sober reflections on life that I decided to try veganism, so for me it worked out alright.

    I will add that while I've been sXe for the better part of my life since I was 12 or so, there was a very brief time period as a young adult where I tried one small glass of red wine for supposed health benefits each night for a week or two. In the end, I deemed it too expensive for its dubious effects, and I also decided I'd rather not drink at all, and have gone back to being strictly a tee totaller. I don't have many doubts that I'll maintain this for most of the rest of my life.

    If you wanna discuss a nondrinking lifestyle with others, the link I provided can be followed to a forum with many nondrinking members. You probably don't fit the full definition of "straight edge", but there are a lot of people there who aren't. It's a good place to find others who don't drink and talk to them about their personal stories. Some are recovering alcoholics themselves, especially my good buddy Seth. He could give some pointers about staying clean and sober.

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    berta_the_aspie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    i have never tried alcohol for various reasons. had i been fed alcohol along with my meat as a kid i am sure i would have been adicted to the taste and effects, and it would be difficult to give up. thankfully parents dont force feed alcohol along with animal products.
    the most obviuos reason to not drink is that its poison, and it would be just like injecting a botox syringe into my cheek, or inject animal products into my body. i just try and be pure and stay one with nature, no matter how silly that sounds.
    it helps alot to have aspergers (being a black/white and logical thinker) cause it makes me stand by my choices and be persistant.
    it was more difficult as a teenager, but im 22 now and i am comfortable with tellingg people i dont do poisons, but i also respect them drinking. except that they get drunk .. and dont respect me.. especially guys.. but thats another story.
    actually the only other vegan sXe guy in town just went back to alcohol and stuff which is pretty sad for me

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    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Well, there's plenty of info out there about the negetive effects of excessive alcohol consumption - both on your health and in terms of the way it changes your behaviour. Everyone reacts differently to alcohol and some people have higher or lower tollerences. Some people get violent on it, some people just talk more and fall over more easily.

    I've personally been through various stages of consuming no alcohol, some alcohol and lots of alcohol. I've only ever drunk in excess socially and only ever drunk on my own in small quantities for relaxation or taste. I do not believe that my spirituality is in question by consuming it and am happy with my current health (mental and physical) in respects to my alcohol consumption. There is much to be enjoyed from the use of alcohol in moderation both in drinks and cuisine so personally I think it's a matter of being sensible - as it is with most things in life.

    I totally respect the choice of anyone who chooses to abstain from it completely either for health or religious reasons and know several of those who do so. Anyone who does not respect your choice of giving up alcohol is unlikely to respect your choice of not eating KFC, so I wouldn't worry
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

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    Antonia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Thanks Hetfield. The reassurance gained from knowing you can drive and be independent is certainly worth something. Now that I have a bf that is happy to drive I've been lazy but I'm sure he will now appreciate me offering to drive more often so that he can have a drink if he wants. Why are attitudes to non-drinkers so tough!!! Going vegan a few months ago has definately given me the confidence to go tee-total, although I'm not looking forward to people thinking I'm a compete and utter vegan, sober party-pooper. "Getting high on life"... I'll drink my apple juice to that!

    Pilaf, I don't know anything about straight edge. It's one of those mysterious concepts that I haven't really heard much about before, so thanks for that link. What does straight edge mean for you?

    Berta, I was fed alcohol with my meat as a kid! (disturbing isn't it). Although not an Aspie myself, a friend of mine is and I have come to believe that her way of viewing things sometimes makes so much sense. It's so much simpler to work in absolutes. It's what I've done with my diet, so I would like to do it with alcohol too.

    Mr Fibble *salutes in a very ornate manner*, I can't find info about the negative effects of alcohol that doesn't recommend drinking in moderation or it's pull on alcoholics. I'm not a 'moderation' person and I've never been an alcoholic. Although my mum is and I think that might have a part to play in this. Hmm.. a random thought just popped into my head... a non-alcohol pub! haha. Would be nice to get away from the drunken smeg-heads that frequent my home town.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote Pilaf
    I will add that while I've been sXe for the better part of my life since I was 12 or so, there was a very brief time period as a young adult where I tried one small glass of red wine for supposed health benefits each night for a week or two. In the end, I deemed it too expensive for its dubious effects, and I also decided I'd rather not drink at all, and have gone back to being strictly a tee totaller.
    It has been proven that moderate alcohol consumption, e.g. a glass of red wine a day, does indeed have positive health benefits, mostly in males. However, it's not the sort of thing that manifests over two weeks !! (what were you expecting? ). More like over decades, rates of heart disease have been shown to be lower for moderate drinkers.

    It's all about moderation. I've known people who have not drunk alcohol and yet have thought nothing of pouring 4-6 cans of Coke a day down their throats.

    ...and of course abstinence is commendable too, if that's what a person decides for themselves...
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

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    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    I heard it was just the grapes in the red wine that makes it so healthy?
    Peace, love, and happiness.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    there must be more to it than that - otherwise people would just say 'eat more grapes'...
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

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    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    ...But isn't it just to make the alckies feel better about their drinking?
    Peace, love, and happiness.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    in fact, it's not just red wine:

    "Alcohol consumed in moderation is thought to be beneficial in reducing the risk of coronary heart disease. Indeed, alcohol consumption in conjunction with high intakes of fruit and vegetables, may well explain the so-called 'French paradox'. The French diet is considered to be very high in fat, especially saturated fat, yet the death rate from coronary heart disease remains relatively low. It is thought this is at least partly due to people's consumption of red wine.The key word, though, is moderation. In 1997, the World Health Organisation concluded that the reduced risk from coronary heart disease was found at the level of one drink consumed every second day."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_..._alcohol.shtml

    But I'm not trying to advocate alcohol consumption - just pointing out that 'supposed benefits' probably take longer than 2 weeks to become apparent...
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

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    ♥♥♥ Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Ahh okay. I'm allergic to grapes, so I can't drink wine, but interesting to know.
    Peace, love, and happiness.

  13. #13
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote Antonia

    Pilaf, I don't know anything about straight edge. It's one of those mysterious concepts that I haven't really heard much about before, so thanks for that link. What does straight edge mean for you?
    It means that I don't smoke (use tobacco products), drink (get "high" off alcohol or any other mind altering substance. This means avoiding them altogether in all cases of actually being Straight Edge.) or "fuck" (not to be confused with having sex. This lyric has been widely interpreted as meaning promiscuous sex, usually dangerous sex brought on from being drunk or stoned. Loving sex in a relationship is not only allowed but encouraged by most sensible Straight Edge adherents.)

    These are the only prerequisites to "claim" the title of Straight Edge. All other lifestyle factors are up to the individual.Many Straight Edge people are vegans, but it's by no means a prerequisite. Many Straight Edge people are religious, or not...we have liberals, conservatives...men, women, boys, girls, from all countries and walks of life.

    (Some "elitists" would argue that you "have to be involved in indie music" to be sXe. This is a purist, traditionalist stance going back to the roots of the subculture and isn't held by a great many Straight Edge adherents, myself included. I'm of the mindset that all things evolve, and you don't have to be involved in hardcore music or anything to be Edge.)

    And so, as you can see, it's a bit strict, and even extreme from some viewpoints. I certainly don't mean to imply that I think this is the only way to live, or that other people should claim and try it. You have to do your own thing. But there are people on those forums who have went through kicking alcohol before...if you wanted to join and explain that you're not Straight Edge but would like to discuss giving up alcohol, you're bound to meet a handfull of intelligent, friendly people who will share with you their experiences with kicking the habit.

    Like I said, it's up to you, but we're always happy to welcome new members. You don't have to be Edge...we have a general discussion forum, and a vegan discussion forum as well, and at least 25% of the people on the forum are neither Edge nor Vegan, so don't feel intimidated at the idea of joining. Nobody is gonna run you out of town with a pitchfork

    Quote Tigerlily
    I heard it was just the grapes in the red wine that makes it so healthy?
    Yes... or something in the skin. It's more potent in grapejuice and wine than in raw grapes, however. I opted to go for grape juice instead of wine after trying wine for a little while. I decided that staying alcohol free was better for my personality and lifestyle. It's just something I was used to being, a nondrinker. I'm not knocking it or anything, but it just wasn't for me. I'm drinking grape juice now, and even if it doesn't have the same health benefit, it sure tastes good.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote wilson
    It's all about moderation. I've known people who have not drunk alcohol and yet have thought nothing of pouring 4-6 cans of Coke a day down their throats.
    I don't believe at all that all the crap in coke can be much better than alcohol. I suppose the ultimate evil mix is spirits mixed with coke.

    Quote Tigerlilly
    But isn't it just to make the alckies feel better about their drinking?
    Haha. Just like they say one cup of coffee a day might be good for you. Or fish, or a couple of servings of white meat a week.

    Wilson, I don't understand how the article you cited can claim the benefits are due to the moderate consumption of alcohol. Surely it is the low fat diet and the high intake of fruit and vegetables that has the positive effect. I also wonder if the WHOs study categorised drink consumption as 0-1 units of acohol per day, 2-3 units... etc. I don't believe that someone who drinks 1 glass of red wine a day is healthier for that reason alone that someone that drinks for example, a glass of grape juice instead.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    I know people who stopped drinking certain types of drinks as it was making them feel low, I think that also may have been the amount with some but good on you for doing so.

    I am not going to try and join the gang or admit to wanting to knock % on th e head, I do like to have a drink of something now and and again in moderation and I always rememer and never forget so I am inside limits of sensible units.

    Mind you it is hard in Somerset we only have cider in our taps You keep up the good work
    and well done for you taking on the challenge keep it up, also why not try stuff like Purdeys at Partys, can be bought in most health food stores all natural , I drink this when ever I drive or want a non alcho drink it really lifts the zing in the body and makes you very perky.
    Go confidently in the direction of your dreams

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    Antonia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Thanks Pilaf, would the following of my lifestyle factors classify me as straight edge?

    I only have loving sex in my 4 year relationship. I don't drink. Don't smoke. Don't do drugs. No caffeine. I don't buy processed foods. I avoid chemical as much as possible (makeup, cleaning products etc). My philosophy is pure body = pure mind = pure spirit. I'm interested in Buddhism and anything spiritual. I recycle as much as possible, (unfortunately I drive). and obviously vegan

    I had a bf once that was into hardcore music and would mention straight edge, but that was his only link to it I think. He basically lives the typical western lifestyle and diet.

    I will definately have more of a look round that sxe website.

  17. #17
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    That's a tough question, Antonia.

    You have to ask yourself if a label is gonna enrich your life in any way. You may already have been following the tenents of sXe without knowing it exists. If that's the case, claiming won't have that big an impact on your life, except compressing different areas of your lifestyle into one convenient phrase or label.

    Honestly, we're not looking to recruit or anything, because that's not how it works. It's not a gang, a social group, a religion or even an organization. It's just lots of individuals who claimed a personal label for their lifestyles.

    We don't expect other people to be Straight Edge, or to claim the label. That's something to be done after careful deliberation and consideration. You may find that the label isn't for you, and that it's not needed. But we'd be happy to talk to you about staying off alcohol. I can't be a big help myself because I was never a full time drinker, but some guys and gals there can share their experiences on how to stay sober.

    And yet others there who aren't Edge may speak on the benefits they get from drinking in moderation. Most of the mature members will encourage you to make your own decisions about what lifestyle is right for you. (Most but not all of us are pretty reasonable there. We have a few kids who are just "hardcore fascsit" sXe, and they have this notion that not drinking is the only way to live. Just ignore them, because that's not what you need to hear, nor is it the general consensus in the community)

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Hi Antonia,

    Best of luck with your decision

    You could find a local Buddhist centre and start going there regularly. Most have meditation classes and talks etc. You're bound to meet other non-drinkers there.

    There's no doubt alcohol does serious harm to certain individuals and society as a whole. It's easier to kill yourself with booze than practically any other drug. But it's always going to be with us. The truth is you can have a hell of a lot of fun while drunk without worrying about the consequences or what people think of you. That's it's main appeal.

    I tend not to drink much anymore, even in social situations because it makes me feel depressed.

  19. #19
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    That's true. Alcohol in society is never gonna go away. It's something we all have to learn to live with, even if we don't partake in it. I think the optimum for most people is moderation. Giving it up altogether is sort of unrealistic for most, and I wouldn't recommend it to people who like to drink, but she seems bound and determined to be a teetotaller, and as someone from that side of the fence, I hope any input or insight I or my forum mates from Toefur can give her will be helpful.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Well done Antonia. Whilst moderated drinking is fine, its better to quit alchohol completely. Life has too many things to offer and alcohol drinking is certainly harmful to health. In the worst case scenario, it could also become addictive.

    You were right when you said you wanted sound mind and a sound body. I am fully against all elements that damage the body, even if it means by small amounts. I have never tasted alcohol in my life and this is a fact I am proud of. No one can make me drink it. All my friends are drinkers, but that has never made me consume alcohol even out of curiosity.

    My principle is that - Your body is a temple, you need to learn how to worship that. To worship you'll need to avoid those elements that cause damage. I'm sure this is what even bhuddism says.

    Once again, let me wish you luck. You have taken the right decision. All the best.

    Regards
    Kiran
    Life is like a boomerang: What goes around comes around - "Karma"rocks!

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    U get it, to work in absolutes. thats what i do, its either all or nothing really.

    uhm, but isnt alcoholism hereditary? that you can inherit it from your mom or something? i think i have heard it.

    i was actually straight edge before even knowing about it, it was sort of fun to find out that Davey Havok was (diatary) vegan and didnt drinkYAY

    ... i wanna give up sugar though. i was never adicted to caffeine, but i am addicted to white flour and regular sugar. but im trying. im gonna give it up in a month, cause thats my 1 year vegan birthday

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote Antonia
    Wilson, I don't understand how the article you cited can claim the benefits are due to the moderate consumption of alcohol. Surely it is the low fat diet and the high intake of fruit and vegetables that has the positive effect. I also wonder if the WHOs study categorised drink consumption as 0-1 units of acohol per day, 2-3 units... etc.
    'low fat diet'...? The paragraph I posted was talking about the fact that the French, who enjoy on the whole a HIGH fat diet, have one of the lowest rates in heart disease in Europe, based on studies carried out on test subjects over a number of years. The fact that the French test subjects enjoyed a glass or two of red wine with their meals was cited in these studies as the difference.

    Quote Antonia
    I don't believe that someone who drinks 1 glass of red wine a day is healthier for that reason alone that someone that drinks for example, a glass of grape juice instead.
    That is your right, of course. I was reading of another study the other day which apparently showed that people (actually it was mostly males) with alcohol problems had different levels of liver damage based on how much coffee they drank. Alcoholics who drunk lots of coffee (I think they said like 10 cups, which sounds like a health hazard in itself) had shown to reduce their chances of liver disease by up to 60%

    My point is I agree these studies often offer up results that seem counter-intuitive, but the fact is they are real studies, carried out under scientific conditions on a number of subjects over a number of years...the human body is a mysterious place !
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    It hasn't been "proven" that red wine has a beneficial effect. Scientific studies have found beneficial effects, to be sure, but very little is "proven" in medical science. It is important to consider the design of the study and who sponsored the study and whether there were any other variables which could have influenced the outcome. We know about the "proven" effects of omega 3 fish oils don't we? Not proven at all, just some studies found it had a beneficial effect. As with red wine. We don't know for sure.
    We do know that alcohol can have an anticoagulant or blood thinning effect and this is probably the reason why it seems to be beneficial, but does that necessarily mean we all should drink alcohol? After all our blood is a certain thickness for a reason isn't it?
    Personally I no longer drink as I have seen what it does to people who drink too much and I don't want to put a toxin in my body that I don't have to.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    I'm fed up with alcohol. It makes me more loud, obnoxious and lewd than usual and turns my friends into embarrassing childish fools.
    My Mum is awful when she's drunk, loud and selfish and acts more like a spolit child than usual (and she's bad enough sober!)
    I don't want to become her and I do a little when drunk, so no mopre alcy-hol for me

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote herbwormwood
    It hasn't been "proven" that red wine has a beneficial effect. Scientific studies have found beneficial effects, to be sure, but very little is "proven" in medical science.
    you're right - the article I posted used the wording '[alcohol] is thought to be beneficial in reducing the risk of coronary heart disease.'

    ...which is the more accurate scientific way to put it, I agree.

    Quote herbwormwood
    We do know that alcohol can have an anticoagulant or blood thinning effect and this is probably the reason why it seems to be beneficial, but does that necessarily mean we all should drink alcohol? After all our blood is a certain thickness for a reason isn't it?
    yeah...I'm not trying to sell gin out of a suitcase or anything, sorry if that's how it came across - I don't drink much myself, and applaud people who identify it as something negative in their lives and make a change accordingly.
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Certainly worth a try for 5 or 10 years Antonia.

    I understood that the RELAXING effect of this central nervous depressant was a key factor in the reduction of heart disease.I reckon YOGA rinses the pants of wine-a-day adherance. Anyhow, worry not, I heard that the "special ingredient" of wine was available in tablet form.

    Possibly helpful ideas:
    Ethanol is an excellent solvent which can be used for extracting herbal essences from gardens; something you might have more time for if you quit drugging yourself in order to lower your pleasure threshhold.
    So medicinal purposes....can you justify drinking somone elses medicine?
    A powerful method in the pursuit of abstinence is to ask oneself the direct question " At this moment in time, how could I best help myself and my friends....?"
    Should I a] ....drink the poison [burn the plastic...etc]?
    OR b] ...help myself and friends?
    This also transforms the act from abstinence to positive action.
    The more you follow through, the more you learn.
    .

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote snaffler
    also why not try stuff like Purdeys at Partys, can be bought in most health food stores all natural , I drink this when ever I drive or want a non alcho drink it really lifts the zing in the body and makes you very perky.
    I used to drink Purdeys until I read in this thread that Red Wellies had discovered that their Activation and Rejuvenation drinks aren't suitable for vegans - it's post 41:

    http://veganforum.com/forums/showthr...?t=5979&page=2

  28. #28

    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Hi Antonia, I haven't drank any alcohol for about three years. The looks I get when I announce that I don't drink are quite similar to the looks I get when I say I don't eat meat. So it shouldn't be that different for you since you're already a vegan!

    After a while you don't miss it at all and it becomes totally normal. And if once in a while you do have a glass of wine or whatever, you'll find it pretty awful and you probably won't want to again. (Sound familiar?)

  29. #29

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote Pilaf
    I opted to go for grape juice instead of wine
    Here's an excerpt from an e-mail I received from Minute Maid:
    "...Additionally, some of our suppliers use a common industry practice for grape juice clarification that does involve animal by-products. This practice is becoming increasingly less common as ultra-filtration systems are gradually replacing the gelatin used in this process..."

    Just be careful as you drink your grape juice!

    By the way, I call myself straight edge as well. Coming up on a year next month. I didn't see you mention caffeine, which I found odd seeing as caffeine is an incredibly addicting drug.

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Maybe he didn't mention caffeine because this is a thread about alcohol?
    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    good job antonia!
    "you dont have to be tall to see the moon" - african proverb

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    You wanted supprt in your decision not to drink any more alcohol, Antonia, and this is something from a fasting website - I believe that the vegan diet I've at last kept to for a decent while has been instrumental in helping me to at last draw away from the problem I've had with it:

    "Alcohol is a demon that hunts the wounded, suffering, and weak. Some are more prone the pitfalls of alcoholism than others, such as high intelligence, difficult childhood, alcoholic parents, warm and compassionate personality, even an inquisitive mind. For an intelligent, sensitive person, alcohol is an easy escape, numbing the mind from the responsibility of a harsh world.

    Science has proven that alcohol is a carcinogen and mutagen. Research studies have found that even one drink per day can double the risk of developing breast cancer. Alcohol kills brain cells, degenerates the heart muscle, damages the liver, and can deform an unborn child.

    Alcohol causes a sharp mind to become dull. Intoxication is the brain's response to being poisoned. Concentrating and focus become work, trying to wallow through a mental fog. How can God communicate with such a mind? It is a perfect setting for Satan's tricks because a mind that is unable to focus is wide open to being led astray by his repetitious whispers. It is Satan's way of preparing the mind for his most degrading and sickening suggestions that normally would appall us.

    If you turned to alcohol at sixteen years of age, then emotionally and mentally you will continue to have a sixteen-year-old mind as long as you drink. Spiritual growth is impossible. Alcohol becomes the comfort of your mother, the security of your father and rules your life like a god. Its solvent properties seep into the deepest recesses of the character. Another terrible tool of control in Satan’s deadly arsenal."

    http://www.freedomyou.com/addiction/...0addiction.htm

  33. #33
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote cvC
    Spiritual growth is impossible
    A single definition of spiritual growth and how it is attainable is highly dubious. Some could just as equally argue that spiritual growth is impossible without drugs. Others could equally argue it's an effective tool.
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  34. #34
    cvC
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote Mr Flibble
    Some could just as equally argue that spiritual growth is impossible without drugs. Others could equally argue it's an effective tool.
    You're interested in Buddhism and may or may not know that one of the five principal precepts is to abstain from intoxicating substances. This is something from Proverbs in the Old Testament:

    "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=20&version=9

  35. #35

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    didn't jesus turn water into wine? also, I believe the refreshments he laid on at his last supper included wine. does that place him in 'Satan's deadly arsenal' ?

    or is all that satan talk just a bit silly and misplaced?

    a group of adults should be able to talk about alcohol use in 2006 without bringing satan/jesus/the bible into it, surely? or maybe my mind has become 'a perfect setting for satan's tricks'

    "I've been very hungry, but not enough to kill" - The Clash

  36. #36
    Antonia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Thank you all for the encouragement. Why can't friends/family be like that? I think I need some vegan or at least health conscious friends.

    Quote snaffler
    why not try stuff like Purdeys at Partys, can be bought in most health food stores all natural , I drink this when ever I drive or want a non alcho drink it really lifts the zing in the body and makes you very perky.
    I've never seen it, but I'll be sure to look out for it. Thanks.

    Quote Pilaf
    You have to ask yourself if a label is gonna enrich your life in any way. You may already have been following the tenents of sXe without knowing it exists.
    Pilaf, I don't think a sxe label would particularly do much for me, but it's nice to know that if I come across a sxe conversation/people I can identify with it. It's also nice to know of a like-minded group of people from whom I might get inspiration and support. Just like this forum really. I'll drink my grape juice to that too

    Quote coconut
    Best of luck with your decision You could find a local Buddhist centre and start going there regularly. Most have meditation classes and talks etc. You're bound to meet other non-drinkers there.
    .

    Thanks coconut. I've now made plans to go to a Buddhist centre tomorrow. Not been to one before. I've only just started to read up on Buddhism. I love it's philosophies and I'd love to get into meditation.

    Quote Kiran
    Life has too many things to offer and alcohol drinking is certainly harmful to health.
    .

    I'm with you on that. I believe it is harmful to health, period, even in moderation. Ok if you don't drink much and eat well your body can probably deal with it, but what else could your body be doing if it wasn't having to waste it's time countering the alcohol. Hoorah for the body as a temple!

    Quote berta_the_aspie
    but isnt alcoholism hereditary? ... i wanna give up sugar though.........im gonna give it up in a month, cause thats my 1 year vegan birthday
    .

    If that's true it's without a doubt best that I don't drink. Good luck with the sugar and for in a months time.. Happy V-day!

    Herbwormwood, I too don't want to put a toxin into my body that I don't have to. Why do people encourage eachother to poison themselves? Humans are so odd.

    Good luck absentmindedfan. Not wanting to turn out like my mother is high in my list of motivational reasons too.

    Thanks for the advice whalespace. I agree that if focusing on the positive benefits of not drinking rather than the fact that I'm NOT drinking makes a lot of sense.

    Quote catalina
    if once in a while you do have a glass of wine or whatever, you'll find it pretty awful and you probably won't want to again.
    .

    Very true. Often in the past when I've had a drink I've realised that I didn't enjoy it as much as I thought I would. Congrats on 3 years of tee total living.

  37. #37
    Antonia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote foxytina_69
    good job antonia!
    Thanks foxy!

    Wow, thanks cvC. Some strong words there. A bit OTT for me 'satans tricks'... but thought provoking and not given in a 'fluffy bunny' way. I will be sure to check out the link.

  38. #38

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote wilson
    Maybe he didn't mention caffeine because this is a thread about alcohol?
    Sorry.

  39. #39
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote chickendude
    I didn't see you mention caffeine, which I found odd seeing as caffeine is an incredibly addicting drug.
    If you want to discuss caffeine's role in sXe, by all means join the forums and mention it. You'll find that over 95% of all adherents feel that caffeine has nothing at all to do with sXe. A drink of tea or coffee is not mind altering in any way, and has never been proven to have crippling long term health effects like, say, tobacco.

    Anyway, good luck to the OP with her decision to stop drinking alcohol. I'll support you no matter if you decide to stick with it or not, because you're trying something to improve your life from your pov, and that's commendable.

    About the grape juice thing, I don't really care. I realize that most fruit juice manufacturing methods are probably not vegan, but I don't extend my veganism that far. With my budget and schedule, I frankly don't have time to obsess. If there are no animal ingredients listed, I consider it vegan enough for me.

  40. #40
    tabitha
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Im not going to be drinking in the week from now on. Im trying to persuade VeganBikerBoy to do the same.

  41. #41
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote tabitha
    Im not going to be drinking in the week from now on. Im trying to persuade VeganBikerBoy to do the same.
    Good 4 u!!!

    I think my bf has been a little disappointed that I haven't wanted to go the pub with him the past week, but I want to be ultra confident about my abstinence when I put myself in that sort of environment. I hope you and VBB can provide some support for each other.

    I've found a replacement vice now too, sunbathing! Overdid it at the weekend though. I should perhaps put my bf's reaction to my burnt bottom on the spanking thread.

  42. #42
    prilly-pie
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    ive been teetotal for 3 years now and trust me - from age 16 when ur meant to be getting drunk and wasted at parties.. it was hell - not because i wanted to do it, but bcos people thought i was above them and growing up too fast.. b*ll*cks.. ermm i did it bcos one side of my family are alcoholics and one person in particular. I hate how he is wasting life drinking and that he doesnt care about the future. its as if he can be at one daughters wedding (my older sisters) but its just *good luck* if hes at mine..

    my mum is tea total and im very proud of her for commiting herself to this
    wen people ask, i say it loud and proud.. its my life it effects and its my life that will probably turn out longer and happier than those who r binge drinkers.

    alcohol in moderation, i have no problem with. but i dont see the point in changing your personality when u go out to have a good time.. love who u r, and have the confidence to go out and have fun without having to induce it with alcohol.

    prilly xxx

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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    A while back I was doing a course, and a copper came to give us a presentation with question and answer session on drugs and the law etc. One of us asked him which drug he thought was the most dangerous and harmful. His reply: Alcohol.
    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Just to add my name to the list of y'all who don't drink, and hopefully offer you some support and encouragement. Never got into it, it just didn't appeal. If one group of friends were doing an activity, and one group were going to the pub, I'd always opt to go with the doing something option. I love spending quality time with friends, but I've just never really gotten the appeal of sitting in a smoky pub to do so, paying over the odds. I've tasted alcohol, just a sip of the odd thing here and there, nothing took my fancy, and I saw no point in acquiring the taste. I've never had any problems with anyone challenging my choices; many are inquisitive, but it's always in a nice, genuine way. Many tease me, but again, I take it in the good-natured way it was intended. One group of friends have been using the same gag on me for 15 years, bless them (always offering me a beer and a cigarette)! I don't make a big deal about it if new people discover that I don't drink (like it's really so weird?), I just say it's just how I am and always have been. (I only turned vegan at 25, so was a non-drinker first. Now new people think I don't drink as a result of my veganism.) I have never felt the need for it to relax OR to perk me up. I am chilled enough naturally, when I need to be, but can easily morph into the person most likely to be found first on the dancefloor ... and last off it. (Partly maybe 'cos come 3 o'clock most of the people in the place are jibbering wrecks and I'm better off just throwing some shapes of my own!) Each to their own, as long as no-one is getting hurt. I also am less likely to get myself into any tricky situations, and were I too, somehow, I'd like to know I have my maximum wits about me. Like, I'll always be able to drive, if there was an emergency, or I'll always be able to be level-headed if called upon. I also don't particularly see the appeal in being out of control. Nor in hangovers and feeling sick and dehydrated the next day. And yeah, I've saved an absolute fortune over the years. There was some calculator tool that was going round on emails a while ago and you could estimate how much you'd spent on alcohol in your life so far and predict if you carried on how much you'd fork out, and quite frankly, I have better things to spend my money on. Saying that, out of all of my friends, I do have the most well-stocked bar in my house for guests, it always gets a comment as visitors are shocked, but I like playing hostess with the mostess, and I like people to know I don't expect them to be like me (though of course this does not extend to having meat in the house!). I sometimes feel some people feel they can't completely relax and get drunk in front of me because they worry I am going to think they are a fool or a drunken monkey, or they'll do something they regret the next day and I'll remember it, but I've convinced anyone worried about this that this is just my choice, and I am not out to judge them. This is the right choice for me. I am happy. I also feel it's the most healthy way to be, and that appeals as well.

    Snap, Antonia, sun-bathing is my little vice too. Well, we all need some lovely Vitamin D.
    Vegans go all the way.

  45. #45
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    I do not drink alcohol. Why? Here’s a few reasons:
    1.It’s toxic to every organ of the body. It can cause and contribute to myriad health problems.
    2.Several studies have shown some health benefits to “moderate” consumption. There is reason to believe that these studies are flawed and/or biased. Even if there is some truth to the health claims, there are many other, safer ways of getting the same health benefits… i.e. eating right, exercise. The health benefits of red wine are mostly due to antioxidants in the red grapes, not the alcohol. Many foods contain these same compounds, but without the drawbacks of alcohol. (Pomegranates, red grapes, blueberries…)
    3.It impairs cognition and judgment. It can lead to accidents, injuries, and deaths.
    4.It makes people more rude and self-absorbed. It can lead to violence, crime, and broken relationships.
    5.It can lead to psychological, and sometimes physical dependence. People often drink because they think they have to in order to be more “social” or to “have fun”, or because they give in to social pressure to do so. They continue to use it and rationalize it even when it becomes clear it’s becoming a harmful presence in their lives.
    6.I’ve seen too many friends and loved ones be hurt by this drug. I don’t want to fall into the same trap, or support the industry that peddles this drug.
    7.I’ve seen great improvement in health, physically and mentally, in myself and others after becoming a teetotaler.
    8.It’s unnecessary. Alcohol provides no benefits that cannot be obtained more safely by other means.

    Of course, everyone has to make their own choices in life. This is the choice I’ve made. I love the independence I get from abstaining from mind altering substances. I like being in control of my own life and treating my body and my mind right. I don’t want to gamble with my health and my mind by using drugs.

    It can be tough to be a teetotaler in a culture that is so pro-alcohol. But you have to be true to yourself and your own choices in life and not let social pressures get you down.


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    how about marihuana and straight edge? probably not "allowed" but i dont see how it could be more bad/harmful than caffeine. and if the point of sXe is to not alter the mental state of mind as earlier mentioned, then its more of a religion i suppose...?
    is marihuana "allowed" in veganism? it seems like a natural environmental substance, and animal friendly i think?
    i have heard that tobacco and alcohol is worse than marihuana so im just thinking about it..
    so which is "worse"?
    det e bedre at den e dyr - enn at den e døde dyr

  47. #47
    told me to Mr Flibble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    from a vegan perspective, if you consider humans to be animals then illegal drugs are worse than legal. Illegal drugs can never be deemed fair trade, when you buy them you have absolutely no idea of how many lives have been screwed up in order to bring it to you - or for that matter which organisations are generating revenue from your pocket. Then of course there's the fact that you have no idea of the purity or what they've been cut with (animal derived or not).
    "Mr Flibble - forum corruptor of innocents!!" - Hemlock

  48. #48
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    cut with?
    oops, i meant if a vegan person is growing their own plants...
    det e bedre at den e dyr - enn at den e døde dyr

  49. #49
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    Quote berta_the_aspie
    cut with?
    oops, i meant if a vegan person is growing their own plants...
    Hello Berta.
    Cut with.... means mixed with. Sometimes drugs are laced with more addictive stuff or harmful chemicals.
    Hemp grows wild all over the place, so you might find it by a river where anglers [fishers] have thrown their seed bait.
    Like any herb, you should be careful if you make tea [an infusion] with it....although you could dilute it as much as you like.
    Of course eating a plant is vegan but we must consider what happens when we ask strangers to supply things to us...what will they do to complete the deal?

    Is Mary Joanna a controlled substance in Norway?
    Swapping alcohol for another drug might avoid certain problems specific to boozing, but will raise others.
    Problematic is waking someone whom pretends to sleep.

  50. #50
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    Default Re: Teetotal, no alcohol; support

    "Swapping alcohol for another drug might avoid certain problems specific to boozing, but will raise others." huh? (im slow)
    its controled yeah i suppose so. but i think it shud be legalized, alcohol is just sooo much worse...
    det e bedre at den e dyr - enn at den e døde dyr

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