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Thread: To mainsteam or to boycott?

  1. #51
    treehugga's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Barry O Connor
    boycotting is a fine line for me, while i would never eat at mcdonalds, wear nike, adidas ect. for obvious reasons, i do shop regularly at tesco because i don't really feel like i have much choice. i live in the west of ireland, health food shops are ridiculously expensive and the range of food suitable for vegans in irish supermarkets is basically non-existant bar veggies. i have little money as a mature student who's just spent a year being what basically amounts to being an intern and getting paid roughly one third of the national average industrial wage. my girlfriend is in her final year honours degree so she's broke too, especially with ireland being the second most expensive country in europe(it's really ridiculously over the top here, a fact hammered home by a summer on mainland europe last year) i despise the way tesco conduct their business but i find myself in there every week despite this. i'm not really trying to justify myself, it's my choice and if i really didn't want to i wouldn't shop there. anybody else find their finacial situation takes priority sometimes?
    Perhaps you could buy fruit and veg at a local fruit shop instead and just get staples from the supermarket? You just do as best you can given your circumstances. If you avoid animal products that's probably the main thing. If where you live doesn't suit your lifestyle it could be time for a change?

  2. #52
    GoatBoy
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    a vegan option in mc donalds would be a waste of time, money and energy. A vegan is - most of the time - someone that cares about this planet enough to understand that mc donalds is evil in so many different ways. I'm surprised that there is even a veggie option there. I know it's mostly for the hindus, (becauses cows are sacred) but when they eat at the chain that kills hundreds of cows a day and fund their profits you may as well be eating the cows yourself.

    Th last time I went into a mc donalds was for the sake of an experiment. I bought a bacon double cheeseburger and tested how many preservatives are in their food by just keeping it at room temperature still in its packaging and see how long it keeps. and.....

    ..... It's still smelling exactly the same, and it's not mouldy at all even though it has dehydrated to a hockey puck. and I've had it for over a year now.

  3. #53
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    a vegan option in mc donalds would be a waste of time, money and energy.
    We want less animals to be harmed an killed, but don't want non-animal meals yo be available in mainstream restaurants? Disagree. I want them to be available everywhere - it gives non-vegans a chance to be reminded that there are other options than eating animals, and less animals will be killed.


    I'd like to see vegan options everywhere - in canteens, airports, hospitals, fast food chains, schools - even in hell, if there is one.

    An important way to to save more animals and make a vegan or partially vegan lifestyle more accessible and to get more focus on the various dietary options people actually have, is to get vegan meals and the word 'vegan' mentioned as often as possible, especially where non-vegans eat and shop.

    Maybe MacDonalds are obsessed with meat, but more than anything else they are obsessed with money. If the world would consist of 95% vegans and 5% meat eaters, they would basically have vegan options on their menu, don't you think?

    We may never get there, but it will definitely will be difficult even to move in that direction (towards less meat eaters, more vegans) if we suggest to hide away the vegan options from the public.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Perhaps you could buy fruit and veg at a local fruit shop instead and just get staples from the supermarket? You just do as best you can given your circumstances. If you avoid animal products that's probably the main thing. If where you live doesn't suit your lifestyle it could be time for a change?

    i do generally buy my fruit and veg at the local fruit and veg, it's almost as cheap so it's pretty easy to support local business that way, most other items do come from the greedy multinationals though! when i graduate and get some kind of stable income though i will definately be avoiding these places at all costs. i will be leaving ireland to live abroad for a while at some point although it definately won't be for at least five years, and the business i'll be entering will make it kinda difficult cause i've been training as a genealogist and most of my work is specific to ireland, also having travelled a lot i know i want to eventually settle down here cause it's a pretty cool place. i have to say this is one of the best threads i come across on this board, it makes for very interesting reading.
    Todays empires, tomorrows ashes...

  5. #55
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    We have to take advantage of capitalism to spread veganism. By supporting a grocery store which sells vegan alternatives to food, but not spending money on non vegan items there, you're sending a message to the store owners..a message which amounts to dollars and cents. That vegan food is a little more marketable than it once was, and meat is a little less. If the trend continues, smart businesspeople will alter the nature of their business to adapt. Even McDonalds may someday be a vegan chain. Don't doubt the power of manipulation of mainstream business.

  6. #56

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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote stickydate
    I would like to start a FRIENDLY debate between mainstreaming veganism, or boycotting "evil" corporations.
    For example, I know McDonalds is horrible - it is responsible for the deaths and suffering of many animals, as well as contributing to obesity etc... But, what if they had a vegan option? Would you eat their hashbrowns and fries, as they contain no animal products? I personally believe that mainstreaming veganism not only makes life easier for us, but it shows these horrible corporations that there is a better way, and will hopefully eventually lead them in the right direction.
    When responding, please keep in mind that all of us have different comfort zones with what we will and won't do...please respect that.
    That's funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday, I was a bit upset and since becoming vegan I chose not to eat at fast food restaurants. But because I was upset and it was late at night, my friend took me to get some fries from McDonalds. I don't want to support Mcdonalds but I gave in for a very silly reason. I feel silly for being such a baby, but when I'm upset I eat, and I was craving fires. Hopefully, I can show more of a backbone next time.
    ▼Laurin▼

  7. #57
    forthebirds
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    I try to support local businesses, over corporate "big boxes", whenever I can, to spread the $ around. The idea of these corporate stores putting the small health food stores out of business scares me. What is to keep them from eliminating "vegan" options from their stores once they've cornered the market and put the competition out of business?! I'm a big supporter of the small retailer in general for this reason.

    I try to only visit fast food type places if I have no other choice, like if traveling in an unfamiliar area, although I probably will always stay away from the worst offenders like McD's regardless of their token "veggie" options. Those places just make me sick on so many levels, that I can't see supporting them - period.

  8. #58
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Tempest
    Most of the companies I boycott have committed many abhorent crimes over the years. I think that even if they tried to cater to me, I'd have to reject them. I, being relatively new at this, find new things and reasons to boycott every day. It seems that pretty soon I'll be boycott everything but the local farmer's co-op and bicycle shop.
    Fancy seeing you here
    We still need to get off our lazy asses and make a list of all the places we're boycotting, it's hard to keep track.

    I agree mostly. There are good honest stores and companies out there, who do everything in their power to limit global impact and not harm animals, and I will go with those companies as much as I can. Of course it all goes to hell when it comes to Taco Bell. If I'm traveling and hungry I WILL go there. I know they sell meat, and are owned by... who is it, Pepsi? Whom I think are the devil (I don't remember all the things they do, support bullfighting in S. America I think) but I love the food. It's cheap (good if you're a starving student) and there are actually a lot of vegan options. I found the following list of all they do:-

    "Under their vegan heading, they list: Bean Burrito (without cheese), Bean Tostada (without cheese), Mexican Rice (without cheese), Seven Layer Burrito (no sour cream, no cheese), Hot/Mild/Fire Sauce, Fiesta Salsa, Red Sauce, Soft Tortillas, Pizza Sauce, Green Sauce, Guacamole, and Taco Shell. Taco Bell used to have two different distributors for the Mexican Rice. They are no longer using the distributor which had milk derivatives in the rice. NOTE that the sour cream does contain gelatin, which is animal based."

    It is accidently vegan, but at the end of the day- it's still vegan, and I'm cheap. Having a few vegan tacos a week is nothing compared to having a few meat, cheese, and sour cream tacos a week.

    It's like the thing with Original Source and Body Shop- they're owned by corps which do use animal-tested ingredients, but the things in O.S and B.S products are vegan and non-animal tested. I mean, where do you draw the line?

  9. #59
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote laurin
    That's funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday, I was a bit upset and since becoming vegan I chose not to eat at fast food restaurants. But because I was upset and it was late at night, my friend took me to get some fries from McDonalds. I don't want to support Mcdonalds but I gave in for a very silly reason. I feel silly for being such a baby, but when I'm upset I eat, and I was craving fires. Hopefully, I can show more of a backbone next time.
    Aren''t McDonald's fries cooked in beef fat or something? Some Hindu gentlemen sued a few years ago. Why can't you cook your own fries? There's a lot to be said for attaching a D.I.Y. ethic to veganism.

  10. #60
    Demon
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    B.S products are vegan and non-animal tested
    Body Shop products are non-animal tested but not necessarily vegan.

    Part of a reply I recieved from them 2 years ago (long before the L'Oreal takeover):
    The Body Shop is not and has never claimed to be a vegetarian or vegan company and as such we do use some animal-derived ingredients.
    As this is a bit off-topic, I won't post the whole speil.

  11. #61
    GoatBoy
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Demon
    Body Shop products are non-animal tested but not necessarily vegan.

    Part of a reply I recieved from them 2 years ago (long before the L'Oreal takeover):


    As this is a bit off-topic, I won't post the whole speil.
    VERY IMPORTANT EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW

    body shop is now owned by loreal which tests it's ingredients on animals, so no longer are they the saintly ones, they should be boycotted. not only that they employed nazis after the second world war.

    and not only that - loreal is owned by nestle, one of the most evil organisations known on this planet. for those of you who do not know about nestle's evil should look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestl%C3%A9_boycott

    as vegans i know you won't eat an ethiopian baby, so with that in mind do not consume items by nestle or related to nestle

    such as - vittel water, perrier, buxton mineral water, rowntrees, sarsons vinegar, garnier, mabeline, loreal, and any fast food chain that uses nestle products as deserts.

  12. #62
    Pilaf
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Isn't it a little strange that they don't test on animals but use animal ingredients? How did they try to justify that logic?

  13. #63
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Demon
    Body Shop products are non-animal tested but not necessarily vegan.

    Part of a reply I recieved from them 2 years ago (long before the L'Oreal takeover):


    As this is a bit off-topic, I won't post the whole speil.
    I haven't had the chance to look into it since becomming vegan. Thanks for pointing it out though To be honest I stopped going there when they got taken over by L'Orehell.

  14. #64
    IndigoSea
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Pilaf
    Isn't it a little strange that they don't test on animals but use animal ingredients? How did they try to justify that logic?
    I don't think they even tried

  15. #65

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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    See my local diary ... http://herbwormwood.blogspot.com/

  16. #66

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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    I quote from the BBC article:

    "Anita and Gordon Roddick, who founded Body Shop 30 years ago and still own 18% of its stock, are expected to make £130m ($228m) from the deal. "For both Gordon and I, this is without doubt the best 30th anniversary gift The Body Shop could have received," said Dame Anita."

    I'll let those words speak for themselves.

  17. #67
    treehugga's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    I don't thing corporations such as MacDonalds are ever going to give a damn re vegan options.They have removed their veggie burger of their menu here - not profitible enough. They just care about screwing the public with their unhealthy choices, especially children. While the meat industry is so profitable, these companies will focus on that. However, if we give more power to more ethical vegan type companies, they may grow and educate more of the population into buying from them.

  18. #68
    I eve's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    And where I live, after successfully getting the local supermarkets of Coles and BiLo to stock Kingland (vegan) soycheese, both have now deleted them from their shelves - not profitable or insufficient 'call' for the product. Oh well, do without I guess.
    Eve

  19. #69
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote Indigosea
    We still need to get off our lazy asses and make a list of all the places we're boycotting, it's hard to keep track.
    Surely someone here can point us to a nice list of companies to boycott with the reason and all their products listed. This would provide a nice seed list. I need a PDA to carry around in the grocery stores with this list, as I don't think paper would do it justice.

    -----
    Romans 14:2 (King James Version)

    2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    all good points. I don't see that we are on different sides of the boycott argument; rather, we are fighting on different fronts. Not a dichotomy but multifaceted approach to shifting our western culture. Today, I'll be in hippy-vegbox-local mode but I don't rule out meeting up with another mum and asking to stop at a fair-trade coffee chain rather than one I boycott.
    mainstream/boycott/alternative... our daily options!
    the only animal ingredient in my food is cat hair

  21. #71
    treehugga's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote eve
    And where I live, after successfully getting the local supermarkets of Coles and BiLo to stock Kingland (vegan) soycheese, both have now deleted them from their shelves - not profitable or insufficient 'call' for the product. Oh well, do without I guess.
    Bugger! I get the Kingland cream cheese from the health food shop and mix it with fair trade cocoa and sugar and eat it for desert. Decadent .
    By the way Eve, I just tried strawberry rooibos tea recently. To die for .

  22. #72
    treehugga's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote pat sommer
    all good points. I don't see that we are on different sides of the boycott argument; rather, we are fighting on different fronts. Not a dichotomy but multifaceted approach to shifting our western culture. Today, I'll be in hippy-vegbox-local mode but I don't rule out meeting up with another mum and asking to stop at a fair-trade coffee chain rather than one I boycott.
    mainstream/boycott/alternative... our daily options!
    That's a great way to look at it Pat. Sometimes we forget, we're all on the same team.

  23. #73
    GoatBoy
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    Quote treehugga
    I don't thing corporations such as MacDonalds are ever going to give a damn re vegan options.
    caccy d's love them or hate them do listen out to what people want, after all pleasing us is their livelihood. when people demanded cardboard boxes instead of polysirine they did it, when people wanted healthy options they did it, when people wanted free range eggs (not that its does anything for us) they did it.

    they are a big business, which means they have the power to make the big changes, lets encourage them, and vote with your pounds/dollars/euros/yens/rubles.

  24. #74
    treehugga's Avatar
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    Default Re: To Mainsteam or to boycott?

    I've never heard of them. Haven't seen them in Australia. Have they stopped serving animal products? That would br great if people demanded it and they did it!

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