gertvegan
Yeah, Gertvegan, 'cause all of the mass slaughtering and suffering created by Omnis causes rampant peace and harmony, unlike veganism which leads to mass destruction and disharmony, right?
Yeah, Gertvegan, 'cause all of the mass slaughtering and suffering created by Omnis causes rampant peace and harmony, unlike veganism which leads to mass destruction and disharmony, right?
From the vegan thing you have? My gosh, that's absolutely hilarious!!
I restarted on WeightWatchers within weeks of coming over all vegan. Quite a few of my coworkers viewed the two as one and the same, and so keep on asking me if I'm still on that no meat diet... *sigh*
And I sure hope I never get "better" from this "vegan thing" I have...
No Gods, No Masters.
one of my good friends little sisters asked me "so how long are you not going to eat meat" I didn't have to answer becuase another one of the said "for the rest of his life". It didn't bother me they are just young and good kids.
"Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)
This could probably be another thread but, this is one from a former lacto-ovo vegetarian- "I was hungry all the time and adding animal products to my diet made me less cranky but, fatter haha." This in itself isn't that stupid but, she was ALREADY eating milk, eggs, cheese, etc. since she wasn't vegan so I don't see how "adding animal products" to her diet (I guess dairy and eggs aren't animal products?) would have made such a huge difference. She was also a vegetarian for twenty years, so did this *all of a sudden* become a problem for her?
(Btw, this is my env. science proffesor who is otherwise a total genius. Today the lecture was on factory farms and she said that chickens are fed ARSENIC on top of the antibiotics and growth hormones. Geeznow isn't that going a little too far? I guess now I know what to say the next time someone says chicken is good for you...
Oh, here's some I've gotten from my mother:
"If everyone stopped eating meat all the cows would become extinct".
"You just want everyone to keep these animals out in their yards as pets."
on cow's milk and why I find it unnatural and gross: "You need to be more open minded."
"The Chinese (who don't consume as much dairy) are short! Milk is what's made our generation of men big and strong!"
Ha! That's one of the arguments my dad used this evening when we were talking about veganism. He believes all the usual food chain/law of the jungle crap too. And he refuses to accept that things like cake can taste great without any dairy products. I've never actually had a vegan cake but I'm sure they're just as tasty.Originally posted by casey_veggoddes
"If everyone stopped eating meat all the cows would become extinct"
How exactly do they defend that cows extinct theory??
"Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)
Actually, I think they're probably right. Cows and other highly domesticated animals are franken-species whose genetic make-up was determined by the needs of humans, not by their own struggle to survive in the wild. Some domesticated species can't even reproduce without artificial insemination - how would they ever survive if humans decided not to raise them any more? What I fail to see is just why you would consider the extinction of such species to be undesirable. Given the amount of suffering they experience, given the harm that animal products do to human health, given the damage that animal raising does to the environment - I think that it would be best for everyone, cows included, if the cows and other highly domesticated animals went extinct.
Actually, cows do just fine when they go feral. They know how to find food and they are big enough to fight off most predators. In fact, the cows that produce the "tasty" beef for fast food burgers lead a pretty much wild life in the wilderness untill they are herded up and slaughtered. These cattle are largely responsible for much of the degredation of the world's wild land.
I have also seen in the third world, how chickens are left to forage by themselves all day. They find their food for themselves without being fed and are hardly looked after at all.
In many places feral pig, goat, and sheep populations are enormous and threaten the native wildlife.
So yes, farm animals can do just fine without people.
H'm. I guess I was jumping into conclusions. I still think that the animals from the industrial farms in the industrialized countries would be incapable of surviving in the wild. But I was ignoring the fact that not all cows/chickens/etc. are raised in such places. Anyway, I think that does leave us with a gloomier picture. As John said, these animals (well, the people who raise them, actually) are responsible for much of degradation of this planet's wild land. I'm guessing it would only get worse if they went feral. Not that there is anything wrong with cows as such, but their sheer number would cause a huge imbalance in the eco-system (as if it hasn't done so already!), much in the way that the size of the human population has done enormous damage. But anyway, I don't think there is much of a chance that a significant number of domesticated animals will go feral. Well, unless something happens (such as a catastrophic epidemic) and we go extinct, while the animals that we raised remain largely untouched. But otherwise, no, I don't think humans will ever let their animals just walk away. If the world (or rather, its human population) ever becomes significantly less carnivorous (which is what I think will happen), I'm guessing that humans will either just prevent their animals from reproducing and thus greatly reduce their number, or be brutally human and just slaughter them all.
I think there numbers would decrease if they were left feral but ont to the point of extinction. Decrease in a good sense...
"Its bad karma to fuck with the stoned"- Hunter S. Thompson, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas Comentary (found on criterion collection)
If society came to the point where we decided that exploiting animals was wrong, I'm sure we could deal with the problem. I mean, we put a man on the moon damn it. To bad it is only a fantasy. . .
I do think that the human kind will become less carnivorous but not because it will have decided that exploiting animals is wrong. I'm guessing that the reason will be either an environmental disaster (such as a serious shortage of drinking water) or an epidemic caused by meat-eating (such as the BSE, or rather, the human version of it). So a high scale slaughter seems quite possible to me. After this happens, humans will quite possibly decide that exploiting animals is wrong. They will decide that because they won't have anything to lose by deciding it and they will feel oh so good about themselves for having such noble feelings and having the courage to condemn their ancestors, blah, blah, blah.
To change the subject back to ranting about non-vegans, I had several experiences this weekend...
I went to several restaurants (weekend away from home). At one of them, all of their dry pastas were made with lactate! (Real pasta is either egg-pasta, or else vegan).
Next one, they had a "Vegetarian Paella", made with "Spanish Rice", cooked in chicken broth
Third one, firstly, they had a brown rice and black beans side (sounded yummy, I thought), which, on the package, is labelled as "Vegetarian Rice", and then conatins chicken broth (again). Secondly, they claimed that you could make their veggie burger vegan by removing the cheese. I somehow doubt that the mayonnaise they use is also vegan...
Another one was looking at trail mixes to tide me over on my long car trip (one whole hour! with two kids in the back! *whew*). Guess how surprised I was (actually, horrified, disgusted, and very very angry), to discover the Planters makes their trail mix with... glycerin
No Gods, No Masters.
I'm not sure that lactate is non-vegan. I think that it is an ingredient in enriched flour. Anyone?
I will ask next time to see the ingredients myself to make sure. There are some vegetable sources of lactate, but generally it'll be milk. And the ingredient the guy mentioned may even have been lactic acid. I'll check next time.
No Gods, No Masters.
Pathetic pro meat arguement
Does anyone else ever laugh when someone says they "could never" become vegan because they were raised eating meat? I dont think they understand that a LARGE majority of vegans were also bought up eating meat, god damn.
It really makes me laugh.
I had to share this because I thought it was funny. My coworker brought in treats for her b-day. She asked me why I didn't have any and I said b/c none of it's vegan. One lady actually said, 'why can't you have cheese?' and another replied, 'oh, because it was dairy in it'.
One of my co-workers told me today:
Another of our co-workers claimed she is vegetarian. But she eats fish, which is ok, she says, because at least the fish got to live their lives in freedom (prior to being asphyxiated, and put on her plate).
No Gods, No Masters.
I was given this arguement by a friend of a friend: "Other animals eat meat. If it's okay for a tiger to eat an antelope, why shouldn't I?" I told him that yes, other animals eat meat, and that other animals also poop outside, sleep in caves, and lick themselves clean instead of hopping in the tub. I told him that should he adopt any of these other habits, he has my blessing to eat an antelope.
-JK
Lactate is a carbohydrate.
Ca(C3H5O3)2Calcium lactate is sourced from starch by biological fermentation and is a salt of lactic acid. Lactic acid is a product of anaerobic respiration and gives the muscle pain associated with not warming-down sufficiently after exercise.
Lactose is a disaccharide sugar made up of glucose and galactose, is found in milk and is responsible for many intolerances. I have heard of production from sugar beet by fermentation but it is yet another one you can't be sure about without asking the manufacturer where it was sourced.
In time it will probably be cheaper to get it from fermentation of vegetable sugars than extraction from the whey in cheese making.
Info on lactose source - courtesy of the dairy industry.
http://ift.confex.com/ift/2002/techp...paper_9923.htm
I had to re-read you post a few times there Veganblue.
I was just surfing net when I came across the net and found this site http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread27432/pg1 They are talking about slaughterhouses and if they could kill animals themselves. It has made me so sick!!!!! Some people are so stupid it makes me want to vomit, I wanted to sign up and tell them a few truths but I don’t think I have the strength. Some were having that old argument that we are no better than meat eaters because we kill plants… please give me strength! Take a look if you have the strength…I feel weak at the knees that people like them exist!
[QUOTE=Trendygirl]I was just surfing net when I came across the net and found this site [url]http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread27432/pg1[QUOTE]
Wow. I skimmed some on the first page and...wow. Seems like quite a few of them realize that they aren't up to the task but still think they are entitled to meat. Do people just not make the link between "poor little lambs" and the chops on their plate? I guess before I went veg, there was some mental distancing, but it's so glaringly obvious now.
-JK
The thing is I was blind to it as well but these people are talking about the issue, I didn’t have anyone to talk to about it and I didn’t have the internet. I think there was a veggie on the site who offered them some information but they didn’t take it. I don’t know if the veggie/veggie inclined person was well informed though as they said that we evolved from monkeys!
Wherefore Moo?
You know what I'm talking about, if you've been a vegan for any length of time, or if you have acquaintances with anti-veg views. It's a minor rite of passage for a vegan. I'm talking about that inexplicable phenomenon known as getting MOOOed. FULL ARTICLE
This is from the Jo Stepaniak Grassroots Vegansim on www.vegsource.com .
Excellent post, gertvegan!
So, I yesterday I had a job interview. It was an all-day affair, so, naturally, it included lunch. For this I was taken out to a restaurant (of my choice) by three employees. One of them is vegetarian (actually, ovo-lacto veggie), and another one used to be(!).
Three things of note happen:
1. At the Thai restaurant we go to, the waiter tells us that the soup of the day is hot and sour soup. The ovo-lacto in the group asks if it's vegetarian. The waiter says "yes". I ask if it's made with meat broth, etc. He goes to check, and surprisingly (not really) it is. So it's not all too vegetarian then, is it?
2. Two of the guys brag about all the people they've converted away from veg*nism.
3. The always-has-been-omni of the group comments that he's all for making meat production be more humane. I point out that that's not gonna help the animal be killed any less, is it, so it's really missing the point.
After that I change the subject.
But at least no-one moo'ed at me.
No Gods, No Masters.
Homer Simpson - 'Lisa honey, are you saying you're never going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?'
Lisa Simpson - 'No'
Homer - 'ham?'
Lisa - 'No'
Homer - 'Pork chops?'
Lisa - 'No. Dad those all come from the SAME animal'
Homer - 'Yeah right Lisa, a wonderful "magical" animal.'
I am terribly sorry - I am doing chemistry this year and it is opening up a whole new world of understanding.I had to re-read you post a few times there Veganblue.
I don't have my food additive decoder on hand, but it looks like the lactate changes the oxidation state of the iron (ferrous) and is useful as a food dye...? but in pasta? what colour are they imparting??? Research continues...
...greenish white powder...dietry supplement...I imaging similiar to a chelated iron form - the lactate form the chelate.
http://www.calderatech.com/PRODUCT/LACTIC_ACID/
Looks to me like it would be reasonably safe to assume that most lactates come from bacterial production. As with all things I may be wrong, but the law of economics suggests that lactic acid from sugar fermentation is much more preferrable than that from cows milk. This applies to use as an additive in some cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.
If on doubt - ask the manufacturer.
"if compassion is extreme, then call me an extremist"
This seems to fit in this thread. http://www.pork4kids.com/Default.asp
-JK
Thanks for the feedback Veganblue. If I were a better student, I would to be a chemist too. Apologies to all the people who hate going off topic.
Veganblue. I was reading the ingredients of my vegan cream chesses (Tofutti www.tofutti.co.uk) and it stated ‘non dairy lactic acid’. It says that it is vegan on the pot. This draws into question all the other things that say lactic acid on them.
Lactic acid continued
Hey Trendygirl - have continued this here.
Last edited by veganblue; Oct 21st, 2004 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Moved to Arrgh, it's not vegan thread.
"if compassion is extreme, then call me an extremist"
One of the most silly things that someone said to me was: "humans need cows' milk for iron". The fact is, cows' milk contains ZERO iron, plus it inhibits iron absorbtion by up to 75% either by the casein in it or as a result of gastro-intestinal bleeding caused by the cows' milk.
I got a similar one from an old friend. I told him that I was a vegan. He says "that's dangerous, you know. I knew someone who went vegetarian, and died because she didn't get enough fiber."
Ha ha, I almost burst out laughing. Meat is such a good source of fiber, huh?
Bart: Hey lisa would like some of my meat kebab.
Lisa: Bart you know I'm vegetarian.
Homer: Oh come on Lisa, we're on Holiday, look I'm not wearing my wedding ring.
I think thats roughly how it went.
i know this has come up before but i was sitting on the bus the other day and behind me were two girls chatting about somebody they knew who was apparently a vegetarian who didn't eat dairy (no i wasn't eavesdropping but you know what it's like, some people you can't help overhearing!)
one girl said, "yeah well he's a vegetarian but he doesn't drink milk, and i was like, what's up with that? i mean, milking a cow doesn't kill it!" and the other girl said, "yeah, doesn't he know that cows, like, EXPLODE if you don't milk them?!!" first girl: "i know, it's so stupid i used to try and argue with him but now i just ignore him!"
'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'
I despair I really do. The utter stupidity of the general public knows no bounds.
oh here's another one i stumbled across today, while flicking through the TV channels i stopped on a cookery show for some reason. it's called Too Many Cooks and is a sort of cook-off competiton type show.
the teams had cooked liver and the presenter was tasting one of the meals. she didn't think much of it and said, "it tastes like what it is, it tastes how you expect liver to taste and you don't want to think about it when you're eating liver do you."
well if you don't like the thought of eating a dead animal's body parts then why not stop eating them??!!!!!
'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'
It must be awful being vegan, can the Dr. give you anything to help with it....and that was said in all seriousness
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams
In this case, "Udder stupidity" , perhaps?I despair I really do. The utter stupidity of the general public knows no bounds.
I had a student yesterday (an honors, pre-AP student who is 15 btw) give me a Milky Way candy bar...I looked at her funny and she said...it doesn't have meat in it or anything.
I asked her if she rememberd that I didn't eat milk either and she said yes. I asked her what she thought a milky way had in it. "Chocolate, caramel, that nouget thingy"
I asked her what kind of chocolate it was. "just chocolate...it's not flavored"
Then I said it was MILK chocolate...that I appriciated her gift, but since I couldn't eat it I told her to give it to the other teacher I work with...She didn't understand that MILK chocolate has MILK in it. Hmm?
I am still very confused by this. She is a very smart girl...?
~Mel
~Mel
"Sweet songs the youth, the wise, the meaning of all wisdom...to believe in the good in man" - Legend
" So are you vegan if you bought 2nd hand leather goods" . Did someone speak, oh its you again, you with the "is swallowing seman vegan" questions. Go away.
I had the best back-handed compliment one day. A friend's mother, upon learning I am Vegan, said she thought it was 'ridiculous, livng just like an animal!'.
Overheard in the cookbooks section of Barnes and Noble yesterday:
woman 1: "Well, there are two kinds of vegetarian cooking, right? One with meat and one without?" woman 2: "Yeah, I think so." At this point I (politely) interrupted and offered to recommend a good vegetarian cookbook. Said woman 1 "I'm also looking for an organic foods cookbook."
Now, I might be wrong, but I have personally never come across a recipe that called for 1 c of pesticide laden peas or 2 stalks of genetically modified celery. Wouldn't and "organic" food recipe be the same as any other?
-JK
Questions we're asked
I was at this sandwich place getting my dad something to eat. The guy making the food asked if it was for me. I said no, I'm vegan. I described the lifestyle to him. And so then as I was reversing out he ran outside, and he said "Wait, I got you. Do you wear cotton?" I said "Of course I do, I live for cotton." Then he said, "Ah ha, cotton comes from sheep! What kind of vegan are you?" I said..."um...no cotton comes from a plant, good bye."
It made me laugh the rest of the day!
She died the way she lived; ugly.
Cotton comes from a sheep? Lol, that's great! Just brilliant!
BTW cobainist, I didn't notice you around here for a while. Glad to see you back.
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