Beer

[snaffler]

Anyone know if Merrydown is vegan?

You will be pleased to know the entire range is vegan

From the web page FAQ
Are your ciders suitable for vegetarians or vegans?
Yes, all Merrydown ciders are suitable for vegetarians and vegans.

Link
http://www.merrydown.co.uk/about/faq.shtml

[snaffler]

i asked for more info about Westons' labelling change and got the following reply (helpfully titled 'Enquiry About Suitability of Cider for Vagans'!):

The problem that we have recently experienced is that The Major Multiples have prevented the entering of ciders suitable for Vegans on their websites and, as we use a common database, from which we share our product specifications with the Multiples this has meant that we have had to drop the claim from our specifications. A full declaration of all the ingredients we use is made on this database, including, where appropriate, the use of lactic and malic acid. For consistency Westons made the decision to eliminate the declaration “suitable for vegans”. However, we have received numerous comments from vegans and as such we are looking to reinstate the claim on our own labels.

Earlier in the week I confirmed with our Master Cidermaker that our products are suitable for vegans in particular that we have written confirmation from our suppliers of malic and lactic acid to this effect.

The power of the Multiple Supermarkets is very strong and on this occasion has causes considerable disruption. We are very grateful that you contacted us with regards to this matter.

Westons are still cool I phoned them as well, they are a company that care about the customer, they are like most small companies they are being forced by capitalist multinationals to play by there rules.

Westons need to expand there range into bigger outlets to survive. I know a person who worked for them once they have no animal stuff ever going in the cider at any stage.

[ALderado]

Cheer's Frank, so the purity law isn't the be and end all??!!
I didn't know they did Hoegarrden in can's??
The Westons Cider company isn't that far from Cheltenham, and I keep meaning to go and visit their visitor centre, where you can sample their produce, which could end up being a "squiffy" day, huh??!!!!
AL!!

[snaffler]

^ How old is the information on that website though firejuggler? We've had recent communication with InBev who are now saying that it IS vegan and that isinglass is no longer used.

I am not sure now I hear it has not been updated in a few months so you could be spot on ! cheers for update

Jase

[snaffler]

No.

I cannot show that without asking the permission from the recipient.

Trust me. Its 100%.

If Stella are lying - I will sue them for fish contamination

LOL Frank phone them and call them Fishists, I am sure they are being un-PC where theres a blame theres a claim hehe

[snaffler]

Meantime brewery do some bottles that are labelled vegan. Bought 3 bottles of London Stout for £4 in Sainsbury.

I need to email them and find out if any of the non-labelled stuff is vegan. Really fancy the Christmassy one.

Anyone heard of them? The Stout is ace, btw, very tasty.

WOW cheers pob, I must go in and see whats about, I recently ordered a box of Entire Stout from the hopback brewery from some ebay proceeds, we cracked one or two last night, nice stuff.

Must keep it quite though, a Somerset boy falling off the cider wagon and trying Beers and Ales could lead to me being the next wicker man, specially if the locals get wind of it

[Corum]

Did I mention Batemans...?

If I did, I can't get over the fact that Batemans brewery label their bottled beers as suitable for Vegans!!! And very nice they are too! (especially XXXB)

[scoultas]

Did I mention Batemans...?

If I did, I can't get over the fact that Batemans brewery label their bottled beers as suitable for Vegans!!! And very nice they are too! (especially XXXB)

And 4 for £5 in Morrisons too! (although my Morrison's doesn't stock XXXB, they do sell Victory, Dark Lord and Combined Harvest)

[bryzee86]

there are issues with fining barrels as some remain active in barrel and would get cloudy etc (seaweed provides a good alternative to this though). Which is why the cask ale from Sam Smiths isn't vegan either.

What.

[bradders]

same smiths cask ale isn't vegan (glasshouse stores don't sell cask conditioned only keg), casks are often fined in order to bring particles down as a sediment which is why when you get to the end of the barrel you get horrible nasty dregs

[bryzee86]

same smiths cask ale isn't vegan (glasshouse stores don't sell cask conditioned only keg),

thnk christ

casks are often fined in order to bring particles down as a sediment which is why when you get to the end of the barrel you get horrible nasty dregs

I know that much.

[bradders]

it's on their website about the cask being the only one that's not vegan

[bryzee86]

sam smiths have a website?!

[bradders]

sorry I didn't mean their website, however http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Smith_Brewery does show this and I have seen this in quite a few places too

[treaclemine]

Hiya! I can't see anywhere that anyone might have mentioned Fullers beer's?? Anyway, all their bottled stuff in Vegan friendly and keg stuff too, but not draught ...

Except for the Fullers Honeydew beer, which contains honey.

[1gentlemaorispirit]

Although this is non-alcoholic, I cheat and use Belvoir fruits organic ginger cordial with sparkling spring water. A bottle will last me about 2 days, as I love the fiery taste of ginger.

[Buddha Belly]

I tried brewing some ginger beer once with yeast and everything. When I got to the step about leaving it somewhere warm like an airing cupboard I realised I don't have such a place so I left it in a sink full of warm water. After a few hours the bottle looked like it was going to burst (I had used a 3l pop bottle) so I very gingerly (ha!) removed it and left it on the draining board for a while. It actually tasted pretty good but was a bit gassy. I'll see if I can find the recipe.

did you ever find the recipe????

[Crafterga]

I emailed Inbev about Stella after seeing this thread, as I'd gone without it for so many years! Here's their reply...

Thank you for your e-mail to the consumer helpline.

Stella Artois is suitable for vegetarian/Vegans in the UK, and as far as I as I am aware also in France.

Once again, thank you for contacting InBev UK.
Regards
Barbara
Consumer Helpline Advisor
InBev UK Ltd
0870 24 111 24

Makes life so much easier in mainstream pubs!!!

[ALderado]

Many many thanx for this post Crafterga!! Well done, have a house point!!
But here'a question about if some cider's are Vegan??
Magners??
Strongbow?? (POOR excuse for a cider!!)

Anybody the wiser??

[Enchantress]

Neither Magners nor Srongbow is vegan, Weston's cider is though.

[ALderado]

Yea, that's what I thought Enchantress (enchanting name!!), and you're right about Weston's, BOY! do they do some gooooooood SH*T!!!!
Cheer's!!

[sandra]

Is it just me or does the box of Weston's cider taste differently to the bottles?

[Buddha Belly]

Is it just me or does the box of Weston's cider taste differently to the bottles?

Where did you get the box from?

[sandra]

Tescos sell them.
I found that the cider from the box seems to be flat and tasteless, not like the bottles at all.
Maybe I was just unlucky and got a bad box?

[bryzee86]

Tescos sell them.
I found that the cider from the box seems to be flat and tasteless, not like the bottles at all.
Maybe I was just unlucky and got a bad box?

its supposed to be flat...

says "still" on the carton.

[sandra]

So, it's different from the bottle stuff then?
They don't make that very clear...............the label looks just like the bottle variety!

I didn't notice the 'still' bit............I like the bottle stuff better as it's a little fizzy!

[ALderado]

mmmmmmmmmmmm,........Westons Ciderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!
Crafterga, did Inbev say whether Stella in ALL it's form's, can, bottle & keg, were suitable for Vegan's?? Also, if it's suitable here and France, why not Belgium where it's from originally??!!!??!!

[finnjax]

Meantime Brewery say all of their brews are suitable of vegans and 'No animal products are used in the manufacture of Meantime beers'

Just thought that it was odd that only the Sainsburys own label ones they make and the Meantime London Stout state it on the label, that I've seen.

Still, they do make nice beers, which are hopefully like they say, vegan.


For any Westons cider fans the boxes of still cider are on offer in Waitrose at the moment, I think the 5% first press one is end of line and selling for £4 odd and the Vintage 7% is £5 odd(that's about £2 cheaper than normal!!!) Stock up for summer.

[Risker]

> Hello. Thank you for your enquiry.
>
> Grolsch is suitable for vegans. Coors Light is suitable from an
> ingredients point of view but it is susceptable to cross contamination.

So I asked them to clarify.

No Isinglass is not used,in fact no animal products or derivatives of are used. However with Coors Light the containers may have been used for a product which did contain Isinglass, hence the possibility of cross contamination

[Marrers]

Nice thorough answer.

[Mahk]

So containers that have been recycled may have been from animal products in a previous life. Recycled paper possibly was once McDonald's hamburger wrapper, glass was a bottle of non-vegan beer, and aluminum a can of non-vegan beer.

I quit.

(just kidding)

[bryzee86]

So containers that have been recycled may have been from animal products in a previous life. Recycled paper possibly was once McDonald's hamburger wrapper, glass was a bottle of non-vegan beer, and aluminum a can of non-vegan beer.

I quit.

(just kidding)

You make me leave this forum for long periods of time, and make me regret ever coming back.

[Mahk]

You make me leave this forum for long periods of time, and make me regret ever coming back.

Please elaborate, I'm unclear what you mean, exactly. I'm at a loss; did my (bad) joke offend you? Sorry, it was not my intent.

[Marrers]

I know it was a 'joke' Mahk but I think you are stretching the point with glass (which is no harder to clean than a plate) and paper which has been re-pulped.

The point about cross contamination is that some residue of the previous contents may remain in the casks. Especially if they are a porous material. Clearly the manufacturers think this is worth mentioning so there must be a reasonable possibility of it.
*knows nothing about how beer is made*

[Mahk]

Marrers, I had a completely different interpretation to what their email meant (but think you may be right in retrospect). "Beer container" has a different meaning in American English. It is the bottle or can you buy at the store. Here is how I interpreted the reply as indicated by my embellishment:

"Hello. Thank you for your enquiry.

Grolsch is suitable for vegans. Coors Light is suitable from an
ingredients point of view but it is susceptable to cross contamination.

No Isinglass is not used, in fact no animal products or derivatives are used in either the production of Grolsch or Coors Light. However, only Grlosch is bottled and canned [UK: "tinned" ? ] using virgin glass and virgin aluminum, whereas the Coors Light containers, both bottles and cans, utilize RECYCLED aluminum cans and recycled glass bottle material which may have been used for a product which once did use isinglass, for example."

Sorry for my confusion, but even so, I fail to see how anyone could have taken it offensively. I clearly labeled my post as a joke, only. Is recycling glass, paper, and aluminum and/or cross contamination considered taboo topics of discussion for some reason?

The point of my attempted [bad] joke (which is especially unfunny when it has to be explained) was making fun of the fact that this wacky beer company guy seems to think we should/are be concerned with what the glass or aluminum containers (both bottles and cans) held in their previous life. Clearly a case of "not practical or possible" under our founding definition, IMO. I was commenting that if this were actually true, I might as well "quit" being a vegan; it is just too difficult. Ok, maybe not a good joke, but how is it "offensive"?

[bradders]

A lot of bottles are also reused here as well rather than recycled in the normal fashion. I say a lot there are actually few products where this is still done currently. A shame since the empty crates (solid plastic and reusable containing the empty bottles) can go on the same vans back to the brewery that brought the full ones saving on glass production, recycling costs, waste collection.....

[lturner]

Hi everyone. Back to Weston's, I've had this reply from them after I asked about the source of their lactic acid. So it's definitely vegan

You can get lactic acid made from milk but we do not use it.

You can also get lactic acid made by fermentation of Wheat.

Malic acid is the normal organic acid associated with apples.

Glad you can still enjoy our ciders.

Jonathan Blair

[Mahk]

You can get lactic acid made from milk but we do not use it.

The exact same statement could be said of water. Here's how you could do it. Boil milk over a stove and place a cooling plate above the rising steam at an angle so that the condensing water droplets trickle down off the plate and are collected in a side container. Bingo! You have manufactured water from milk. [This is called distillation, BTW] But does this mean anyone in their right mind would use this as their means of water production? No.

Yes, the "lact" in "lactic acid" means milk but that's only because the scientists who first discovered lactic acid found it in milk so they named it after milk. Lactic acid is found in many, many other places, however. When your muscles are sore from over use it is because of lactic acid, for example. When sugary food particles that cling to your teeth are then subsequently eaten by mouth bacteria they produce lactic acid and in fact this acid eating away at your teeth's enamel is what causes cavities (dental carries).

Today, bacteria eating common starches, sugars, molasses etc. can safely be assumed to be the source of food grade lactic acid in all ingredients lists, as far as I'm concerned, with the possible exception of dairy products like sour cream, cheeses etc. which we don't eat anyways.

When food/beverage companies are asked, "Where do you get your lactic acid from?" the ones which reply, "Um, milk, I guess." are simply ill informed.

www.lactic-acid.com

[bradders]

about five-ten years ago in Irish 'intervention' milk was put to all sorts of purposes as it couldn't be consumed in it's normal state. This did include rather stupid uses such as lactic acid production, bulking things from paint to plastic and anything else they could think of really. Similar things have happened with other European surplus products over the years too. This is what happens when governments start imposing minimum prices and guaranteeing prices to producers. The government is left out of pocket and there is often a literal mountain of waste food that they can't even give away as food for six months.

[Risker]

From Inbev;

Thank you for your email regarding brands suitable for vegetarians.

The brands we produce that are suitable for Vegetarians and Vegans are,
Hoegaarden, Brahma, and Beck's, Stella Artois, Staropramen.

[Marrers]

I've just come across a website alleging poor workers conditions and hygiene standards at Sam Smiths pubs.

[bradders]

I honestly don't know of a brewery that doesn't do this sort of thing. Most chain pubs are pretty awful, private freeholds seem to be the worst of them. I've worked for a lot of different ones and I haven't found a single one that actually pays for the full clean up time if they pay for it at all. Many don't pay for the 20 minute breaks, if the staff get them at all. (30 minutes on a short shift unpaid is required or 20 mins paid).
Tips are often banned or counted towards pay to meet minimum wage requirements and companies frequently steal from staff by saying that their tills are down without allowing staff to jointly tally tills with management.
As for hygiene the Sam Smith's pubs I've been to seem better than most pubs I've worked in. Seriously ice is something to avoid at all costs as buckets used to carry this from the cellar are often used for other purposes and the scoops are never cleaned.
Cellars are generally filthy, I mean really dirty and rodents are normal in them. Drinking out of a bottle is a bad idea if you don't at least wipe it first.
Dishwashers tend to get quite a build up of general gunk in them that doesn't get cleaned properly because people rarely clean them they get to the point where you can never get it clean properly.
Whitbread have been known for treating resident managers badly in the past in many cases this meant that if a spouse died the partner would lose their job and their home.

[Risker]

Seriously ice is something to avoid at all costs as buckets used to carry this from the cellar are often used for other purposes and the scoops are never cleaned.

Definately, I've read news reports before advising to avoid pub ice. I used to work in a pub where they had 2 buckets, 1 for carrying ice and 1 for other uses such as putting under leaking urinals, let's just say they weren't marked.

[bradders]

yeh a while ago they did e.coli tests on pub ice and essentially said unless you're having an alcoholic drink, don't even think about having ice.

It's just one of those things that there aren't many pubs around that are good on every point and at least the Sam Smith's ones are reasonably cheap and not too noisy.

[alisont]

I have thought about pub/cafe ice before after all the warnings not to have ice abroad Ive seen staff use their hands to put ice in a glass if the scoop was not there!

I do like ice in a soft drink but think Il stop having it now!

Our council do the 'scores on the doors' food hygiene tests - many round here get 2 out of 5 stars or less. I have not yet been ill from eating out/take a way meals but know several people (non vegans) that have.

[bradders]

there is no such thing as 100% food hygiene but there are so called safe and preferred levels. So whilst they wouldn't shut down a place that's not fantastic it's not pleasant to think about but would still be unlikely to make you ill, they more than likely were unwell from kebab meat which often poses a particular problem. Also if they've been drinking people blame everything else but drink.

[beanstew]

I've just picked up some of Co-op's own cider. It's bottled and the bottle is labeled 'Tillington Hills Premium Cider'. It's also has 'suitable for Vegans' on the back label.

It's quite nice, fairly sharp and not too fizzy. 6% alcohol by volume.

I had better have some Scumpy Jack as well so I can do a proper comparison.

[Eat Y'self Fitter]

anyone use Barnivore.com its a great resource that collects emails from tons of companys regarding whether there booze is vegan. I believe there was a question about Stella Artois in here way earlier and I was wondering myself. http://www.barnivore.com/beer/InBev?keyword=inbev

[Mahk]

^From that link above:

"The labels are attached to the bottle with the following 'glue':
Eticol 700 and Eticol 419 : "casein-glues" = based on dairy-protein (= casein) and starch."

And what about the glue that seals the cardboard box the beer is transported in? Is that also not vegan because it contains casein, a milk protein? And what about the single drop of glue that holds the silicon/rubber gasket in place underneath the metal cap on the bottles?

If one over thinks things nothing is vegan.

[Eat Y'self Fitter]

yea... once again its weird how hard it is to be removed 100% from using animals. I do think its nice enough that companies are willing to provide such insightful knowledge.

But gross fact fosters uses something from the austrialian beef industry rather then fish collagen.