Sainsbury's is dropping vegan labelling

[twinkle]

I don't know if any people have omni friends who rely on the labelling in order to buy food in for you if you visit. I do, and I'm going to ask them if they would mind also phoning, to tell Sainsbury's it's not only vegans who need this information, but people who cater for them also find it very helpful.

[Mr Flibble]

My latest (15 minutes this lunchtime) conversation with the Sainsburys Careline was hilarious

I was a couple of hundred yards from the head office this lunchtime, I'd have popped in if i'd have known this was their latest excuse

[RedWellies]

Hahaha, you should have!!

Twinkle, I thought that very same thing.

[Gorilla]

that's very true Twinkle, my parents buy a lot of food for me from Sainsbury's now because it's so easy for them to tell if it's suitable.

[Jonny Nexus]

On their own forums, Sainsburys now appear to be saying that it's not true. (Or perhaps it was, but they've now changed their minds and don't want to admit it)!

The thread is here:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/youridea...wThread.aspx#0

Anyhow, I've just made a post there:

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo."

That's good news. But can I just confirm that this policy will apply to new future packaging designed for either new products, or products whose packaging is being redesigned?

Also, with the exceptions of "obviously vegan products", can we take it that all own-brand products which are suitable for vegans are so marked? i.e. Are there any products marked only as "suitable for vegetarians" which are actually suitable for vegans also or should we take it that if something only says "suitable for vegetarians" then it's definitely *not* okay for us?

I would also ask why it has taken three days to get an answer to what seems like a comparitively simple yes/no question, three days in which the rumour mill has run out of control, your company's previous good name has been dragged through the Internet mud, and in which large numbers of people have wasted much time phoning your care line and sending you emails and trying to interpret the vague, contradictory and confusing answers they received.

Finally, I'd like to know why it is that when, on Tuesday, having read the following alleged email sent by yourselfs:

"We have also decided to stop printing the vegan sign on our products, as we do not feel it is vital information. We believe this, as it is a personal choice to follow a vegan diet and is not as important as allergy advice."

... I twice contacted your careline, I was on both occasions (after the phone operator had put me on hold in order to confer with a supervisor) told that what the email said was *true*.

I am one of those who has kicked up a fuss about this on the Internet, but I would never have done so had your own customer careline not twice told me that it was true!

[meday]

I just phoned them and they couldn't confirm either way, but said they were recieving lots of calls about it, which is a good thing.

I don't think I'll bother going there any more as I only used to shop their for their soya margarine that they don't make any more. Their soya milk is way too expensive compared to tescos anyway!!

Meday
www.recipesforvegans.co.uk

[Jonny Nexus]

On their own forums, Sainsburys now appear to be saying that it's not true. (Or perhaps it was, but they've now changed their minds and don't want to admit it)!

The thread is here:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/youridea...wThread.aspx#0

Correction.

The thread was there.

It now appears to have been deleted - the entire thread, along with their statement about labelling.

Which I guess means that we are now back in the position of not having a statement from them about the labelling issue.

[Marrers]

How odd. That doesn't bode well does it . . .

[philfox]

i wish i took screen shots of the original thread now. could anyone who got an email confirming the fact that they wont be puting vegan labelling on their foods take a screen shot for 'evidence'?
sainsbury's won't be getting my money for quite some time now...

[Marrers]

I still have page 2 on my screen but have no idea how to do a screen shot (I'm on a Mac).

[Pob]

Is there no option to save the page to your computer?

eg, it's this on Firefox:

File->Save Page As


Then at least you got a copy.

[Marrers]

Thanks Pob, done. Not sure how to copy it to here though but guess I can email it as an attachment if anyone wants it.

[Marrers]

Food & health » Vegan & Vegetarian » Vegan labelling
Vegan labelling
Started by vegangal, posted 9 Jan 2007
10 replies

CVFA
Joined: Yesterday
1 post
Vegan labelling
Yesterday

Like we don't have enough to deal with - fighting the cruel factory farming and live transportation issues - now we have to worry about shopping for products that are cruelty free too - what is this - a conspiracy against THE GOOD LIFE ?

You as a business have the obligation to supply what is in demand - not take it away from the shelves and goodness taking the labels off so that we out here who are vegetarians - and vegans have to try and become scientists to understand labelling ?! More and more people are turning away from meat - not just because of the welfare issues ( I wish it were ) but because of health reasons also ! My mother was in her 70's when she was told by the doctor to cut out meat - she was classified as blind - but she could see very up close good bold and large print ! Heck I need glasses when reading most labels these days - the print is so small and several times I have come home accidently with products that have bits of this or that flesh in it ! WASTE OF MY MONEY !!!!! and extremely ANNOYING !

So don't go backwards in time - LEAVE the labels ON !!! ***** V **** SUITABLE FOR VEGETARIANS !!!
And let's get more products on the shelves too that we can eat !

We are proud that at the end of each meal - we say AND NO ANIMAL HAD TO DIE FOR US !


A feeling VERY LET DOWN customer,

***name removed***
Cornwall's Voice for Animals ( cvfa/oipa.uk )
Representing The International Organization for Animal Protection
NGO affiliated to the UN Department of Public Information


JFR
Joined: Yesterday
1 post
Vegan labelling
Yesterday

This is a crazy step backwards. We need more info about our food not less. My old mum will go back to buying me spam because "There's not that much meat in it!"


LindaM
Joined: 9 hours ago
1 post
Vegan labelling
9 hours ago

I too travel some distance to Sainsburys rather than use either of the two supermarkets that are close to me. I have shopped there almost exclusively for years. I certainly won't do this any longer if Sainsburys takes this step. I'm not 100% clear whether it is just vegan labelling that is to go, or vegetarian labelling too. If only vegan labelling is to be stopped, then I agree with the person who posted that it is not necessary to put that a product is suitable for "vegetarians and vegans" on the label if space is a problem. If the product is simply labelled "suitable for vegans" it will by definition be suitable for vegetarians.

This seems to be such a retrograde step and a poor marketing decision by Sainsburys.


Sainsburys
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
52 posts
Vegan labelling
59 minutes ago

We apologise for any cconfusion caused but please find our policy on vegan labelling below:

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is uneccessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and veg. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages."

Sainsbury's


Jonny Nexus
Joined: 43 minutes ago
1 post
Vegan labelling
33 minutes ago

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo."

That's good news. But can I just confirm that this policy will apply to new future packaging designed for either new products, or products whose packaging is being redesigned?

Also, with the exceptions of "obviously vegan products", can we take it that all own-brand products which are suitable for vegans are so marked? i.e. Are there any products marked only as "suitable for vegetarians" which are actually suitable for vegans also or should we take it that if something only says "suitable for vegetarians" then it's definitely *not* okay for us?

I would also ask why it has taken three days to get an answer to what seems like a comparitively simple yes/no question, three days in which the rumour mill has run out of control, your company's previous good name has been dragged through the Internet mud, and in which large numbers of people have wasted much time phoning your care line and sending you emails and trying to interpret the vague, contradictory and confusing answers they received.

Finally, I'd like to know why it is that when, on Tuesday, having read the following alleged email sent by yourselfs:

"We have also decided to stop printing the vegan sign on our products, as we do not feel it is vital information. We believe this, as it is a personal choice to follow a vegan diet and is not as important as allergy advice."

... I twice contacted your careline, I was on both occasions (after the phone operator had put me on hold in order to confer with a supervisor) told that what the email said was *true*.

I am one of those who has kicked up a fuss about this on the Internet, but I would never have done so had your own customer careline not twice told me that it was true!

[Jonny Nexus]

i wish i took screen shots of the original thread now. could anyone who got an email confirming the fact that they wont be puting vegan labelling on their foods take a screen shot for 'evidence'?
sainsbury's won't be getting my money for quite some time now...

Someone else copied the full text of what they said on the now deleted thread. It was:

We apologise for any cconfusion caused but please find our policy on vegan labelling below:

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is uneccessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and veg. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages."

Sainsbury's

Of course, since that has now been deleted, there's no reason to suspect that this statement is correct - it might have been deleted because it was incorrect information posted in error.

Even if that statement is correct, it doesn't explain why they sent out an email saying the opposite and why their Customer Care line initially said that the email was correct.

[melz]

Hello, ive just joined here. Its taken me ages to get into the techno-age. Poo and Bum to Sainsbury's taking off their vegan label, i'm going to email them also. And possibly write a stern letter of complaint to my local MP!

[philfox]

thank you Jonny Nexus and Marrers. so at least now on this thread we have logged all of their conflicting comments that we are aware of on this forum. *sigh* it is so annoying when they can't make an official statement which doesnt dodge the questions asked

[Jonny Nexus]

I just got this statement passed on to me (by someone passing it on from someone else).

.........."apparently they have withdrawn the vegan forum - probably due to some of the content regarding cruelty to animals I read - I spoke to customer services and they said to e-mail customerservice..... and ask for it to be reinstated.

He said he took 75 calls uesterday and 25 so far today on the vegan issue".........

Oh, and one of those 25 calls today was my mum, who called them to point out that as the mother of a vegan, she finds the vegan labelling invaluable on occasions such as Christmas, when she's buying food for me and my other half.

[Pob]

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/youridea...35&PageIndex=2

This thread might be a good place to continue the discussion.

[Jonny Nexus]

I just posted this to the new Sainsbury's thread:

Could I suggest to Sainsburys that they stop all the current confusion and argument by just posting a simple statement clarifying their labelling policy, not just for current products, but also for future new and repackaged products on an appropriate part of their main site (not on this forum, because that could later be declared to be an "unofficial" statement).

I would suggest posting it here:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/food/spe.../vegandiet.htm

and/or here:

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shopping...dgroceries.htm

All the current arguments raging across the Internet could then be ended by simply posting links to that statement.

The current situation is wasting everyone's time and the sooner it's resolved, the happier everyone will be.

[Jonny Nexus]

There's another thread as well.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/YOURIDEA...read/4904.aspx

[veganbikerboy]

I emailed Sainsburys but not had a response, but a friend of mine just phoned them and they denied that they were going to remove the labelling and they are trying to trace where the rumour came from

[Jonny Nexus]

It gets even more bizarre. The Vegan Society have just posted a news item about this:

Rumours are abounding in the vegan movement that Sainsburys are about to remove all vegan labelling from their products to allow more room for allergy information.

Following a succession of complaints from many concerned vegans, The Vegan Society contacted Sainsburys to ask for clarification.

We were informed that, "as far as we are aware, there are no planned changes to the packaging and we are investigating the cause of these rumours".

Sainsburys also denied saying they would make a statement on the subject in the near future and in fact denied there were plans to make any statement.

Not only vegans use the label, the following people find it useful as well: strict vegetarians, the growing number of people with a lactose intolerance or milk or egg allergy (several million in Britain), people who have cut down on animal products for health reasons; and people whose religion encourages them to forgo all meat, certain types of meat and/or eggs. E.g. Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Hindus.

If you wish to contact Sainsburys regarding this issue they can be contacted on their freephone number 0800 636 262 or emailed on customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk

http://www.vegansociety.com/phpws/in...view&ANN_id=87

So let me get this straight. Not only have Sainsbury's spent the last four days refusing to confirm exactly what their labelling policy is, they now gone on record to state that they are, and will continue to, refusing to state what their policy is.

Even though they've told multiple people that they will make a statement as soon as they can get all the facts together.

Nice.

[Jonny Nexus]

I just called the Customer Care line and they read out the statement that was briefly posted on their forums:

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is uneccessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and veg. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages."

So that does seem to be (hopefully) a correct and genuine statement of their position. But then again, given they way they've spent the last three days zig-zagging, who knows?

I asked them if they could urgently get it up on the FAQ on the main website as, given the contradictory information they've been giving out over the last few days, that's probably the best, quickest way to 100% reassure everyone that the vegan labelling isn't being axed. I also asked if they could add a bit to that statement clarifying that this policy would apply to new/redesigned packaging also.

[Risker]

Dear James

Thank you for taking the time to email us. I am sorry to hear that you have heard we are longer labelling our vegan products.



I would like to assure you that we have no intention to stop labelling vegan or vegetarian products. We are currently investigating this matter and would welcome any information regarding this.



Please ensure that when replying to us you include your original message, which I have attached and any attachments you sent. Alternatively, you can call our Careline on free phone 0800 636 262, one of my colleagues will be more than happy to help you.



Once again thank you for contacting us about this. I do hope this has put your mind at ease about this matter.

Kind regards

[Marrers]

Sainsburys
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
52 posts
Vegan labelling
59 minutes ago

We apologise for any cconfusion caused but please find our policy on vegan labelling below:

"It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is uneccessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and veg. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages."

Sainsbury's

The above was their reply in the deleted thread. The below is their slightly more detailed reply on the current thread http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/youridea...35&PageIndex=2

Sainsburys
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
53 posts
Sainsbury's Product Labels
3 hours ago

Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is uneccessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and veg.

The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages.

This policy applies to new and existing products. We are firmly committed to making our packaging as clear and helpful as possible.

We apologise for any confusion caused and wish to reassure customers of our vegan labelling policy as above.

Sainsbury's

[RachelJune]

Risker, I just got the same email reply from them too.

[Melanie]

I still haven't recieved an e-mail back from them :/

[veganbikerboy]

I got an email reply saying the same as what Jonny nexus as posted. So looks like they will continue labelling

[Troutina]

Haha they must be tearing their hair out by now!!

[Tikkin]

Wow how confusing all this is

[yum]

hi
they have posted this up on animal aid http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/NEWS...gie/ALL/1479//

[Marrers]

Looking at the new Caramelised onion and garlic houmous today I notice it is only marked as 'vegetarian' under the new leaf logo, rather than 'suitable for vegetarians'. I could not see any reason why it would not be vegan.

I'm curious to know whether anyone spotted anything with the new leaf logo which is marked vegan? I will start looking out for it now.

[Melanie]

FINALLY received this e-mail from them;
Dear Sir or Madam
Thank you for your email. I understand your concerns about the statement that has recently been made in the news regarding vegan labelling.

It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as “suitable for vegetarians and vegans”, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo. The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is unnecessary). Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and vegetables. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages.

Please accept my sincere apologies for the incorrect information you have been given. I would like to assure you that we do not have any current plans to remove the vegan signs from our packaging.

Once again thank you for taking the time to contact us. I hope you will continue to shop at Sainsbury's in the future.

Kind regards

Gemma Wilkinson
Sainsbury's Customer Services

[THREAD ID:1-2RVYIM]

-----Original Message-----
From: melh555@hotmail.com
Sent: 09.01.2007 07:11:56 PM
To: <customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk>
Subject: Our Products - Quality



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:13px;]The following comments have been made:
Full Name: M. Houghton
Email: melh555@hotmail.com
Telephone:
Subject: Vegan labelling
Comments:
Dear Sir/Madam,
it has come to my attention that you are in the process of relabelling (or indeed un-labelling) your products listed as vegan. I am very dissapointed by this move, very much so. I regulary travel to Sainsburys (rather than go to my more CONVENIENT supermarket, which is CLOSER) to do my shopping due to their easy labelling, but I shall have to re-think this if there is to be no vegan labelling. I do not really understand why the labelling is being changed and I am really rather dissapointed.
I hope this change does not come into effect or i'm sorry to say that I won't be using the supermarket anymore.
Please advise.
M. Houghton
Address: , , , ,
Nectar Card Number:
Order/Reference Number:
Delivery Date:
QUALITY
Store Name:
Purchase Date:
Product Name and/or barcode number:
Other codes (batch; bbe; supplier):
AVAILABILITY
Product Name and/or barcode number:
Store Name:
Incident Date:
GENERAL INFORMATION
Store Name:
Purchase Date:
Product Name and/or barcode number:
Other codes (batch; bbe; supplier):
[/FONT]

[Risker]

Sounds like they took a hammering over this, that'll learn em!

[Jonny Nexus]

My latest post to the Sainsburys forums:

Someone posted this:

Just been on the phone to Customer Services. They are NOT going to removed veggie/vegan labels. They will put the vegan label on new products as the appear . They won't label a carrot or turnip Somebody has a grudge against Saisburys and has fed false info to wind us vegans and Sainsburys up ! Please inform your friends about this wind up.

I replied with:

"They are NOT going to removed veggie/vegan labels."

If that's true, then why do the vegetarian samosas and pilau rice say only "Suitable for Vegetarians" on them?

They used to be "Suitable for Vegetarians and Vegans". Then, when the packaging was updated to have the new nutional pie chart on it, they were changed to only "Suitable for Vegetarians".

I've just phoned customer services and given them the barcode of these products and they have told me that they are *okay* for vegans.

So clearly the bit where they say this:

"I am pleased to advise you that it is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as 'suitable for vegetarians and vegans', using the Sainsbury's vegan logo. The only exceptions are those groups of products, which are obviously vegan (and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is unnecessary). This includes plain waters, unseasoned flours and plain fruit and vegetables. The position of the logo on the pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats."

...is not true! They must, as some point in the last year, have changed their policy to stop putting vegan on labels, or the vegetarian samosas and pilau rice would say suitable for vegans!

As an aside, as someone who has been saying that the policy has changed, based on two factors:

a) the fact that a whole bunch of previously vegan products had new vegetarian only labelling; and

b) the fact that when I called customer services last Tuesday to ask if it was true, they told me that they *had* changed their policy so that they would no longer label vegan products

...I resent very strongly the people at customer services saying that people like me have a "grudge" against Sainsburys and are feeding "false info" to people to "wind them up".

This is not a very nice way to treat loyal customers.

http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/youridea...read.aspx#5015

Oh, and the full story about the samosas (with barcodes - so you can phone them too!) is here:

http://jonnynexus.livejournal.com/276990.html

[Aberbrothock]

If that's true, then why do the vegetarian samosas and pilau rice say only "Suitable for Vegetarians" on them?

I noticed that a few weeks back as I had bought the rice regularly - the ingredients haven't changed. I think overall Sainsbury's is publicly admitting that no changes are happening, but by means of stealth they are. A product here and there changes to "vegetarian" only and within 6 months...all gone.

[Jonny Nexus]

I'm hoping that it's the other way round: that they were doing it, were caught out, and have now promised not to do it again without actually admitting that they ever were doing it.

But I'd be a lot happier (and less worried about their future plans) if they would just be honest about what's been going on. All they have to say is something like:

- in an effort to keep labels from becoming so cluttered that consumers would get confused, and not realising how important it was, we removed the vegan label;

- following responses to this move from vegans, we've realised our mistake, and have reversed this policy change so that in future any new packaging for vegan products will so say that it is vegan;

- we apologise for any inconvenience caused.

[RedWellies]

I received the following email....

Thank you for your email. I am sorry to hear that you are concerned about the labelling of our vegan products. I am happy to explain our position.

It is encouraging hear that one of the reasons you shop with Sainsbury’s is due to our labelling products suitable for vegans. I can assure you that we are not removing the suitable for vegan signs from the labels on any of our products.

The only products that do not have this labelled are products which are obviously vegan and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is unnecessary. Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and vegetables. The position of the logo on packaging may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages.

I have passed your comments onto our Product Quality Team. The comments we receive from our customers are very important to us as it is through them that we are able to see where we need to get better.

Thank you once again for taking the time to email us. It is very useful for us to hear about where you feel we can get better. Your views are therefore of real value to us.

Kind regards

Karen Jones
Sainsbury's Customer Services

[Marrers]

This is all making me quite cross. In the Sainsbury's thread I copied an email I'd been sent from Sainsbury's in response to my complaint that the new 'Not just for Vegetarians' range had nothing suitable for vegans - they replied with a list of several things in that range which were suitable for vegan, so why was it not marked on the packaging if these numerous emails are to be believed?

They cannot tell us everything (apart from the obvious) is labelled and then tell us other things are vegan when they are not marked - obviously all of these statements cannot be true . . . I'm rapidly losing faith.

[Jonny Nexus]

...

The only products that do not have this labelled are products which are obviously vegan

...

Karen Jones
Sainsbury's Customer Services

Perhaps you should ask Karen about the vegetable samosas and the pilau rice.

[Marrers]

Actually on digging out that email I mentioned (dated 27/11/06) they give a reason for not labelling as vegan:-

Thank you for taking the time to contact us. I note from your email that you are concerned about the lack of products suitable for vegans and also the labelling of products in our stores. I can understand your concerns, especially as you seem so passionate on this matter.

I have spoken to my colleagues here at our store support centre. They have advised me that our supplier produces these products in a meat free factory with a dairy segregation. However, we decided not to flash the vegan logo as the area was not dairy free. We are reviewing this and will look into the possibility of flashing the products that are suitable for vegans. Please see the list of products below which details suitable for vegans.

Vegetarian Chilli & Rice
Vegetable Casserole with dumplings
Jambalaya
Vegetable Terriyaki
Bulgar Wheat Pilaff
Bean & Vegetable Casserole
Vegetable Tagine and Cous Cous
Malaysian Vegetable Curry with Noodles.

I hope this information is helpful to you and that any of the above products are suitable for you. Thank you once again for taking the time to contact us. Your comments are very welcome.

Kind regards

Michaela Dickens
Sainsbury's Customer Services

[aubergine]

I checked those out in my local Savacentre and I think it was the Casserole that had milk in it. Or maybe one of the others. I should have written it down... Anyway, still read the labels.

And I'd also like to see Sainsbury's extend the labelling to everything that's Vegan. Obvious or not. And how about making those burgers and meatless balls Vegan... It'd appeal to a wider market. I asked before and was told that they satisfy existing customers and they didn't want to compromise on quality. Ah well, I'll make my own from burgamix.

[scoultas]

I just got an email response from Sainsbury's to my email thanking them for continuing to display the Vegan labelling :

Thank you for your email. I am pleased you are happy with our decision not remove vegetarian and vegan labelling from our vegetarian and vegan range.

So it was a decision not to remove? (this suggests they really were thinking about getting rid of it). Or maybe the person just responded incorrectly. Either way, I'm pleased the labelling stays

[Jonny Nexus]

Called them yesterday to ask them about something - I won't say what it is here for fear that it might identify the person I talked to.

Anyhow, I talked to a really nice bloke who was very informative. What he said was:

- There had been a plan to remove vegan labelling.

- He wasn't sure how advanced that plan had been; it might have got as far as some trials.

- He was under the impression that it had been accidentally leaked by someone who is no longer with the company. (I do hope that doesn't mean that Sainsburys have sacked an innocent scapegoat simply for making the mistake of truthfully revealing a public decision that turned out to be really stupid).

- That plan has now been withdrawn following a lot of phone calls protesting about it during Tuesday to Friday last week. (He said that he had 45 calls over the two days he was working and there are 80 people in the call centre - so we can assume something like 7000+ calls).

[AbFab]

FYI. Here's my corresepondence with Sainsbury's.

Sent: 09.01.2007 12:38:11 PM
To: customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk
Subject: Our Products - Quality
Subject: Vegan Labelling

Dear Sirs
Whilst it is a step in the right direction to be increasing vegetarian choices, I find it rather disheartening to see the range of veggie foods increasing but virtually nothing for vegans. Quorn is not vegan and the majority of Cauldron Foods aren't either.
There are brands out there (like Redwoods and Frys) producing fantastic products which are suitable for vegetarians AND vegans - I don't understand why you would choose products which exclude a section of the market over products which EVERYONE can enjoy. Please consider stocking more vegan produce, which your vegetarian market will also be able to buy.
I have also noticed that the number of items once labelled as vegan has dwindled. You also are not doing the FreeFrom range soya choc bar with nuts in, that I used to love - has this been discontinued? I hope not. If so, please consider bringing it back. Also, can you please provide to me your latest booklet on which of your products are certified vegan.
Thanks
Abi

Date: 14 Jan 2007 13:28:25 +0000
From: customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk
Subject: RE: Our Products - Quality
To: abfab@
Dear Abigail,
Thank you for your recent email regarding our range of Vegan products.
I am sorry you feel that we do not stock enough vegan products rather
than vegetarian.
As a food retailer we aim to stock a variety of products to cater for
each of our individual customers. We know a large percentage of our
customers are vegan and we do not wish to alienate them so I am sorry you
feel the range we provide is not large enough.
I have passed your comments on to our buyers and suppliers. We will
look more closely at providing more options for our vegan customers.
Once again thank you for your email. It is only by receiving customer
feedback that we can identify areas where we need to make improvements
and where we are already succeeding.
Kind Regards
Chantelle

From: abfab@
Sent: 15.01.2007 03:54:16 PM
To: customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk
Subject: RE: Our Products - Quality (and quantity!)
Dear Chantelle

Thank you for getting back to me, and for your comments. They are encouraging. I would just like to reiterate that by catering for vegans, you automatically cater for the vegetarians too - if you can get your buyers and suppliers to consider this, we will ALL be happy. I do appreciate we are a minority (albeit a growing one), although, EVERYONE can eat vegan food, not just vegetarians, not just vegans - but the meat-eaters too. So to increase your range will benefit them too, especially if you market it as the healthy alternative.
I do think you are one of the better supermarkets for catering to vegans and marking things as suitable for us, but it seems recently that there have been retrograde steps and fewer items are being labelled as vegan (making it more time-consuming for us to shop, as we have to pore over the labels to check the ingredients, and more of a hassle) - if you could please address this as well, that would be marvellous.

I am happy to be consulted further if your organisation requires more customer feedback specific to this issue.

Kind regards
Abigail

From: customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk
Subject: RE: RE: Our Products - Quality (and quantity!)
To: abfab@
Dear Abigail
Thank you for your further email. I am pleased to hear that you are happy with the response you received from my colleague about our range of vegan products.
I can assure you that we have not removed the vegan signs on our products. It is Sainsbury's policy to label products that are suitable for vegans, as suitable for vegetarians and vegans, using the Sainsbury's vegetarian and vegan logo.

The only exceptions are those groups of products which are obviously vegan and where our vegan customers have indicated that labelling is unnecessary. Examples include plain waters, unseasoned flours, plain fruit and vegetables. The position of the logo on pack may differ from product to product due to different pack formats and the presence of other key customer messages.

If you have access to the Internet you may wish to visit Sainsbury's website on www.sainsburys.co.uk. This website gives you up to date information on current offers together with recipe ideas including ones that have specific dietary requirements and much more. If you have any queries at all about this website you can call our careline on the free phone number of 0800 636 262. The careline is open Monday to Saturday between the hours of 8.00am and 7.00pm. I know my colleagues will be only too willing to help you.

Once again thank you for taking the time to contact us. I do hope you find this information helpful.
Kind regards
Carol Anne

Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 11:06:34 +0000 (GMT)
From: abfab@
Subject: RE: RE: Our Products - Quality (and quantity!)
To: customerservice@sainsburys.co.uk
Dear Carol Anne

Thank you for your response. I am glad to have it confirmed that you have not and are not removing the vegan sign. I am certain, however, that certain items I used to buy from you that were once labelled as vegan, no longer carry the Vegan logo. Either you have changed the ingredients so they are no longer suitable (in which case - why???!), you've discovered it was not vegan in the first place (in which case, you'll have a LOT of disgruntled vegans on your hands) or Sainsbury's HAVE decided to stop labelling some products as suitable for vegans, even though they are (vegan). I understand you have had many calls and emails about this, and I trust that from now on, efforts will be made to continue correctly labelling products as vegan if they are (except for water and flour and vegetables etc, obviously.), AND, efforts will be made to increase the number of vegan options available to us.
If there is an issue with space/design on packaging, then please mark your items as vegan where they are, and do away with the vegetarian logo if anything, as vegan is obviously suitable for them too.
Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that all of your items marked merely as vegetarian, are therefore NOT suitable for vegans? I have read ingredient listings on several items marked as vegetarian, that seem suitable for me. Am I to assume therefore that if it is marked as vegetarian but not vegan, it's not suitable?

Kind regards
Abigail

Power to the people!

I didn't bother calling their customer careline as a) I like to have things documented and b) goodness knows how long it would take for me to connect to York, all the way from London.

[Jonny Nexus]

FYI. Here's my corresepondence with Sainsbury's.

That's very interesting. And I'm very interested to know how they respond to the question about whether all "not marked vegan" products are unsuitable for vegans.

[Marrers]

Me too.

[AbFab]

I will of course keep you posted. No response as yet.

[scoultas]

Re Abigail's email above :

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure that all of your items marked merely as vegetarian, are therefore NOT suitable for vegans? I have read ingredient listings on several items marked as vegetarian, that seem suitable for me. Am I to assume therefore that if it is marked as vegetarian but not vegan, it's not suitable?

I asked the same question in my email :

Finally, when something states 'Suitable For Vegetarians', does this indicate it is definately not suitable for vegans, or just that it cannot be confirmed to be suitable for vegans? I've been wondering this for a while when coming across an item with ingredients that
all seem to be suitable for vegans, and hope you can take the opportunity to answer this at the same time.

and got the predictable response :

Further to your question about whether our vegetarian food is suitable for vegans. It is not, due to the fact it may have some animal by product in it, for example milk or eggs.

[Jonny Nexus]

Further to your question about whether our vegetarian food is suitable for vegans. It is not, due to the fact it may have some animal by product in it, for example milk or eggs.

Interesting. So the person on their Customer Careline was lying when they told me that the Vegetable Somasas and Pilau Rice (both marked as suitable for vegetarians only) were suitable for vegans.