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Thread: Vitamin B-12 loss ?

  1. #1
    aiden1224
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    Default Vitamin B-12 loss ?

    Hello,
    Anyone out there read the report/study that came out of the Netherlands on the so-called problems related to children on a macrobiotic diet and vitamin B-12 deficiency? I think the study has been mis-interpreted by western medicine but maybe not. How can I make sure I am getting enough B-12 in my diet? Anyone recommend B-12 shots ?

  2. #2
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B-12 loss ?

    Hi Aiden, which specific study are you thinking of?

    We have hundreds of threads about B12, and since this is your first day here, it may be a very good idea to have a brief look for existing threads. In short, both vegans and non-vegans may become deficient in one or several nutrients, including B12. For an overview of which nutrients vegans (and non-vegans) need to pay attention to, look eg. here. B12 is one of the nutrients that it's more likely that vegans may become deficient in than meat eaters (look here), while there are other nutrients than meat eaters are more likely to become deficient in than vegans.

    Depending on your current B12 levels and dozens of other factors, monitoring B12 may be a non-issue for you right now, or you may already be B12 deficient. Some vegans take supplements to feel more safe about their B12 levels, some vegans take a lot more B12 than anyone ever can get from any diet. Unless you know you are seriously B12 deficient, or have problems with B12 absorption, there should be no need to take B12 shots.

    One study from Netherlands about macrobiotic children showed that their growth was 'retarded' compared with children who ate animal products. Other studies, like this one, has shown that children on a vegan diet who eat vegan food containing B12 concluded that "there were no statistically significant differences between the two groups with respect to any of the examination data, including B12 levels".

    Re. height/growth, it has been shown that vegan children with healthy B12 levels have the same growth rate as non-vegan children. The big question is: should we, as vegans, use the growth rate of meat eating children as a reference for what is healthy and natural? Is cell division and growth necessarily on a healthy level among people who eat food containing growth hormones meant for animals with a much higher growth rate than humans? Several studies comparing people who eat a vegetarian or macrobiotic diet and those who eat a typical US diet suggest that a vegetarian or macrobiotic diet may affect estrogen metabolisim in ways that reduce the risk for hormone-dependent forms of cancer, including breast and prostate cancer. Look here if you're interested in an article (from American Society for Nutrition) about macrobiotics and cancer risk.

    If you have a reason to believe that you are B12 deficient, I would recommend taking a test, just like I would have done if you were a non-vegan and felt that you had a reason to believe that you were B12 deficient. As explained in one of the links above, there are lots of elements in our modern lifestyle that could cause B12 deficiency, and there's no reason to assume that we are 'safe'. It doesn't help our B12 levels to know that meat eaters are low in other nutrients than B12, and it doesn't help our B12 levels much that some other vegan have lived years without B12 supplements without any problems, because we're all different. Some macrobiotics have been insisting blindly that B12 can't a problem if they eat miso, nori or tempeh, but IMO there's no scientific bases for claiming this - there are so many things that influence or B12 levels, and while one kind of eg. tempeh may contain useful B12, another may not.

    Others are on the other side of the scale, and seem to assume that that more B12 is always the better, and that it is dangerous not to take high amounts of B12 supplements daily or weekly - these people are often vegans, but still believe that they would be generally more 'safe' regarding healthy levels nutrients if they would have been eating meat. Personally, I don't support any of these beliefs.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  3. #3
    carter1144
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    Default Re: Vitamin B-12 loss ?

    Iíve heard of B12 patch. A friend of mine is using it and got good result. I think he told me the site is b12patch.com but I am not very sure. Just try it on internet.

    Good luck.


  4. #4
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B-12 loss ?

    It's interesting to see that the same "two" people logged in here, posting the same stuff.

    Here's what carter1144 wrote in the other thread at the other site:

    Hello,
    Anyone out there read the report/study that came out of the Netherlands on the so-called problems related to children on a macrobiotic diet and vitamin B-12 deficiency? I think the study has been mis-interpreted by western medicine but maybe not. How can I make sure I am getting enough B-12 in my diet? Anyone recommend B-12 shots ?
    And here's what Aiden1224 replied over there:
    I’ve heard of B12 patch. A friend of mine is using it and got good result. I think he told me the site is b12patch.com but I am not very sure. Just try it on internet.
    Good luck.
    Sorry guys, we ban spammers. Good luck with your product, and please correct the faulty info about vegan B12 over at b12patch.com.

    Now, who said that fake info about vegans and B12 is NOT planted by people who promote B12 products?

    Try harder next time - it's more convincing if the same person play the role of the one who doesn't know at both places, isn't it? Here 'Aiden' is 'the novice', at the other place, 'Carter' is!
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

  5. #5
    Fekkler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B-12 loss ?

    That was a good laugh.

    Korn = 1
    b12patch.com = 0

    Though I feel sorry for you Korn taking your time to write such a great response to a spammer. This means another, and sincere, person might not receive as good guidance. Shame on the nasty spammers!

    The Fekkler
    Must not sleep. Must warn others.

  6. #6
    Ex-admin Korn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vitamin B-12 loss ?



    Though I feel sorry for you Korn taking your time to write such a great response to a spammer. This means another, and sincere, person might not receive as good guidance.
    It's OK replying to this kind of spam, because others have similar questions, but the slightly absurd/comic thing about spam is that spammers - or anyone who are eager to promote something - are easy to recognize in the methods they use, which normally consists of making up an excuse for mentioning whatever they want to promote. We want to support everything vegan related, so there's actually no need to make up an excuse for mentioning something. What we are trying to avoid, is the repetitive stuff; eg. last fall we had someone promoting Peta almost every day - we sent her a warning that opinion/organization spam isn't welcome here, and asked her to stop, and now she is complaining at another site about having had 'problems' with us... Asking people not to promote the same stuff 10-20 times within a very short time spam isn't a 'problem', it's part of our policy!

    In short - if someone has a product or a site or anything else that's relevant to mention here - just go ahead and tell us about it. We've had a dedicated section for helping relevant organizations/groups/products for a long time. I'll keep the b12patch.com promo as well, maybe they're not promoting it on their own, but paying someone else for doing it - someone who isn't doing it in a very convincing way.
    I will not eat anything that walks, swims, flies, runs, skips, hops or crawls.

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