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Thread: Vegans and eggs

  1. #1
    tails4wagging
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    Default Vegans and eggs

    Dilemma - should my vegan friend eat rescued chickens eggs? She is a committed vegan, but she says, if battery chickens are rescued and continues to lay, she thinks it is ok to eat the eggs. Her rationale is that by paying the rescuer for the eggs, she is helping the upkeep of the chickens. No sure myself, how this fits in with a vegan philosophy?. Before I went vegan, I would only eat eggs if I could see the chickens and that they were ok. Has this come up before and how do folks think about it?

  2. #2
    I eve's Avatar
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    vegans don't eat eggs, but surely your vegan committed friend can make her own decision?
    Eve

  3. #3
    tails4wagging
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    Yes, agree eve, but should she call herself a committed vegan?. She is also a committed animal rights activist and does wonderful work for animals. But as she eats the eggs, surely she is open to riddicule by the 'corpse eaters'?.

  4. #4
    wuggy
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    This arose before in 'Not a Vegan Yet' section of the forum.
    I would say from an animal cruelty point of view, yes, from a general ethical stance no - and anyway who wants to eat icky periods once you are a commited vegan?

  5. #5
    tails4wagging
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    Yes, wuggy, I have seen a few after they were rescued, some had no feathers and looked ready for the oven, poor souls!. Now they are scrathing around the grass eating anything looking remotely interesting to eat. My friend I spoke of rescued 12 on evening and as an emergency had to put them in 5 rabbit hutches overnight and awoke next morning to find 9 eggs. they went to good homes the next day.

  6. #6
    wuggy
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    I know, it doesn't take long for them to heal, thankfully.
    Your friend sounds great but she can't call herself a vegan (commited or otherwise) if she eats eggs, can she? Why does she feel the need for eggs in her life, or does she just feel they would be wasted otherwise?

  7. #7
    wuggy
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    I have said before here that I won't choose to keep 'pets' any more, but when we (finally) move I may give a home to some rescued hens. Hens are what first got me involved in the Animal Rights scene. I have kept them before, and they are not atall stupid or unfeeling, as the egg industry makes people beleive.

  8. #8
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    Hen Heaven near Brighton sell eggs from their rescued hens to pay for their care, and I can't see much objection to eating those and can see good reasons for supporting them. I wouldn't really care if it made me technically not a vegan (as I suppose it would) since I eat a vegan diet to try to minimise animal suffering rather than to belong to a vegan club or get anyone else's approval. Eating these eggs doesn't contribute to suffering in any way that I can see.

    Having said that, I personally don't much fancy eggs or anything with eggs in it so perhaps I'd buy some and give them to someone who would otherwise be buying supermarket eggs. Or I'd just give them the money and not take the eggs (which is what I did when I saw them at an event a few weeks back - not that easy to transport eggs from Brighton to London on a hot summer's day ).

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    " I'm not really a vegan " HERE is the similar thread that wuggy mentionded.

  10. #10
    Geoff
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    I was looking after some rescued hens and ate one egg but having been vegan for so long, didn't like the taste. I solved the problem by boiling them and putting them in with the dog's food.
    A friend and I bought some vegetarian samosas some years ago and were driving home when my friend told me that they had meat in them. She threw hers in the river but I ate mine, deciding that it would be a further insult to the animal to throw it away but it made me feel ill. (I should have brought it home for the dogs!)

  11. #11
    tails4wagging
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    I know Linda from Hen Heaven quite well, I usually head her way and buy some eggs for this friend and other friends to help Linda out. I do wish she could find more help, she is overwhelmed with hens/turkeys and only her old dad to help.

    If anyone here in the UK and lives in Sussex, please offer her some assistance.

  12. #12
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Vegans don't ever eat Animal Products. If Nuclear War Happened and all that was left to eat was tinned Tuna and I ate it I would not be a Vegan in practice. It really *is* black and white. Vegans don't ever, under any circumstances, eat animal products. If people who call themselves "Vegan" eat animal products, they are not "Vegan", they are "people who are lying to themselves"....

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    I totally agree, CC. Farm Sanctuary feeds their chicken eggs to the other animals rather than waste them. The staff at FS don't eat the eggs themselves, because they're vegan. Plain and simple....vegans don't eat animal products....

  14. #14
    wuggy
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    Default No eggs, thankyou!

    Yes, Cowpie, that is what we used to do at Freshfields - feed the eggs to the dogs. Under those circumstances (rescued hens laying eggs which would otherwise rot away), I don't see what's wrong with giving them to the dogs to make use of.
    I think if a vegan ate them it could be the start of the 'slippery slope' thing - if you eat eggs, why not try a few other similar products.
    If you eat eggs, you are not a vegan.
    I don't see veganism as an exclusive club, I see it as a lifestyle definition - you're either vegan or not.

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    Quote ConsciousCuisine
    If Nuclear War Happened and all that was left to eat was tinned Tuna and I ate it I would not be a Vegan in practice.
    If all that was left to eat was tinned Tuna, veganism would likely be of no consequence anymore. And the supply of tuna would run out pretty quickly.

    Me, I'd eat Republicans - at least this way I'd still me sticking with my rule of not eating anything with a brain. Of course I'd have to make sure their parents were Republicans, too, otherwise they'd be an "animal product".
    No Gods, No Masters.

  16. #16
    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    I don't see veganism as an exclusive club, I see it as a lifestyle definition - you're either vegan or not.
    I suppose my lifestyle definition is "cruelty-free (as far as poss.)" - that is the primary objective and veganism is a logical consequence, to me.

    From that point of view my main worry is that an all-or-nothing approach can be counterproductive. Have a go at someone for eating these eggs and (depending on their own lifestyle definition) you risk making them think "oh well, I might as well just give up the whole idea of veganism then". Having a large number of slightly-lax vegans (or rather people who follow a predominantly-vegan diet) will reduce cruelty more than having a small number of very strict ones.

    I do like the idea of eating Republicans but I can't think of any Conservatives here that look the least bit palatable.

  17. #17
    wuggy
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    Yes, I do see your point, Harpy, and I wasn't 'having a go' at anyone, its just that I feel, why call yourself a vegan if you're actually not one, that's all (not you specifically, obviously!).

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    baffled harpy's Avatar
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    No, I know you weren't having a go at anyone, Wuggy - I was more thinking about the original question. I just meant that giving this particular egg-eater a bad time doesn't seem likely to achieve anything, although I agree with the point that someone who eats any sort of eggs doesn't meet the definition of a vegan.

    Also meant to say to tails4wagging that the Hen Heaven people I met had a couple of cute rescued turkeys with them.

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    Quote mysh
    Me, I'd eat Republicans - at least this way I'd still me sticking with my rule of not eating anything with a brain. Of course I'd have to make sure their parents were Republicans, too, otherwise they'd be an "animal product".
    Me too. I would eat them raw.
    Knowing the truth is freedom, all else is a prison {?}

  20. #20
    ConsciousCuisine
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    If Animals who are scared, angry, fed sub-standard food and live stressed-out small existances secrete stress hormones into their flesh (see all of the Republican parallels???) and we *know* that it is toxic to take all of that into our bodies, how much *worse* would eating a bitter, angry, anal-retentive, nasty Republican be for our health

  21. #21
    mysh's Avatar
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    Come on CC, a little junk food every now and then won't hurt you!
    (OK, so I'm just jealous because I have neither your resolve nor your skillz to eat right all the time.)
    No Gods, No Masters.

  22. #22
    gorillagorilla Gorilla's Avatar
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    Quote tails4wagging
    I know Linda from Hen Heaven quite well, I usually head her way and buy some eggs for this friend and other friends to help Linda out. I do wish she could find more help, she is overwhelmed with hens/turkeys and only her old dad to help.

    If anyone here in the UK and lives in Sussex, please offer her some assistance.
    i live in Brighton and have seen people from Hen Heaven at small local events, there was an Animal Aid fayre in Worthing a few weeks ago and they had a stall with a live chicken with them. i got to feed the chicken and it was so cute

    i'm not sure if it's them, but there are some eggs that are sold in health food shops around here that are labelled as 'vegan friendly'. i think this is a bit of false advertising because as many people have said, vegans don't eat eggs. however i totally support their policy of rescuing hens from slaughter and battery egg production. i wouldn't personally eat the eggs as i never really liked eggs before and see no need for them now, but someone who hasn't (yet) seen the need to go vegan would be helping animals a lot more buying these than the 'free-range' eggs in most shops.

    i may have mentioned this before, but i stayed at a veggie B&B in Devon called Fern Tor earlier in the year and they have many rescued animals including chickens. all their food is vegan unless you want to have their eggs with your breakfast. the owners of the place are both vegan and i thought it was a great idea for veggies who have yet to cross over to veganism.
    'The word gorilla was derived from the Greek word Gorillai (a "tribe of hairy women")'

  23. #23
    tails4wagging
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    My friend who eats the eggs, is so animal rights,she is known to the law and has crossed them on many a occasion in the name of liberation, so I cannot get around her eating eggs!!. But she has a clear concience about eating them from rescued hens, but agrees with our argument.
    Me I had a couple of eggs a few months ago from resued hens, cause I fancied egg and chips, and promptly felt sick, I think it was the thought of eating a chickens period that did it!!!. Never again.
    Hen Heaven has many hens and turkeys, and Linda gets some abusive from her neighbours, typical and I guess they buy their eggs from a supermarket thinking their concience is clear if they buy free range!!

  24. #24
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    I feel this topic is trying to address two issues at once. First, there's the issue of whether eating eggs from rescued hens is vegan. I think we all agree that it clearly isn't. However, the second question addresses whether or not eating these eggs corresponds with the ethics behind veganism. Here is where I feel the issue could be open to debate. If you feel that non-interference is an important aspect to veganism, then you may be feel eating any eggs is unethical. However, if you feel that no-harm/reducing animal suffering is the unerlying ethics of veganism, then you may feel that while the consumption of these eggs is not vegan, it isn't unethical either. I, personally, identify with the latter stance.

  25. #25
    ConsciousCuisine
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    I feel it is unethical for someone calling themselves a "Vegan" to engage in non-vegan activities (ie. eating eggs).

  26. #26
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    Personally, I wouldn't berate anyone for eating the eggs of a rescued chicken, but I would never do it myself. Not due to not liking eggs, or thinking they're gross or anything. Just 'cos it's wrong for me.
    No Gods, No Masters.

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    While I agree with you cc, I feel that we spend a lot of time on these boards debating what someone calls themselves and if we're cool with that and not enough time actually discussing the underlying issue. I understand the importance of having labels and universal definitions, but if that's as far as we can get in a conversation, I think it makes us appear shallow and hard-headed. I don't care if she calls herself the pope. She probably shouldn't call herself vegan or the pope (assuming she's not the pope ), but there's a great opportunity here to discuss the ethical underlyings of veganism and how it can relate to a nonvegan but yet we're still hung up on what she calls herself?!?

    I apologize if I'm coming off crass or argumentative, but I feel that these forums concern themselves so heavily on how veganism is presented to the rest of the community and what people call themselves, that we miss out on discussions pertaining to internal vegan debates, how our ethics can be applied to an omni-world, etc. I think it's detrimental to the "vegan movement" if we talk so heavily about "converting" people and maintain this us vs. them mantality.

    That's enough from me, I'll get off my soapbox for the moment...

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    Very well said, uww27225 (lets see if i can get your "name" right ), IMHO.
    I agree with you and i also want to emphasize what you said, that we should limit the use of the word "convert" as much as possible on this board. This is counterproductive to our mission.
    More on the original subject, so there is no doubt, in my mind eating eggs is not in line with vegan philosophy, no matter the reason.
    Knowing the truth is freedom, all else is a prison {?}

  29. #29
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Didn't mean to come off as "trite" in my statements on this thread; I said what I did and kept it brief because on other threads about eggs I was VERY vocal about these issues...

    I too do not care if a person decides to call themself whatever they wish to call themselves...If a girl wanted to call herself '"Jesus", well then good for her, because many people would be able to tell that she was not, in fact "The Messiah". If she called herself Jesus and was into gay bashing and rape, THEN I'd have a problem with the inconsistencies...

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    I don't think that anyone thinks that this person is hurting anyone by eating the eggs. On the contrary, she's doing more to help chickens than I am.

    But selling eggs with a sticker that says "vegan friendly"? Come on now.
    There is no need to eat eggs. Feed them to dogs, use them as fertilizer, let the chickens eat them if they want to.

    On the other hand, it is definately better that people buy these eggs than the ones from cruel farms.

    But the question was, "should the friend eat the eggs?".
    Of course not; eggs are bad for your health.

    Should she call herself a vegan? Of course not.
    She is a vegetarian; a vegetarian who need not be ashamed.

  31. #31
    tails4wagging
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    John, i think Linda of Hen Heaven puts that on her boxes for people like my friend who has a clear concience about eating them. I know it is a contradiction. But they may be more folks like my friend who does good deeds and enjoys the odd egg.

  32. #32
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    Quote John
    ... let the chickens eat them if they want to.
    Ewww!!! Now, that's just wrong! Yuk! <- supposed to be me throwing up.
    No Gods, No Masters.

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    I admire her work in area of animal welfare but labeling eggs "vegan friendly" is a "NO-NO" in my understanding of what vegan means. As if you could eat eggs being vegan! Nonsense.

    Generaly, i agree with John's reasoning in it's entireness.
    Knowing the truth is freedom, all else is a prison {?}

  34. #34
    tails4wagging
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    John a friend of mine has rescued chickens and she says, left to their devices hens will eat their own eggs. Must be getting some form of nutrient from them I guess.

  35. #35
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Well, animals of all sorts eat their young, their own vomit, excretion of all sorts...

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    Me and my husband have "pet" chickens, as in, you can bring them in the house, carry them around kiss them and such. I feel the need to explain why we have them, so no one thinks we just buy animals for fun...
    We got two from a former boss who thought that his little girls would like baby chickens as pets
    We caught one wild one of a neighbors, who let her roam the street(very busy, roadkill) and never fed her or gave her shelter.
    One we bought from a feed store when we saw the male chickens attacking her, she was bloody and featherless on her back.
    The wild one ended up having three babies, the eggs were fertalized when we let them out to peck around the yard.
    We had this argument (me: dont eat the eggs, him: why not?) My reasoning was that we dont need to eat them, why not let the dogs eat them? so for a while the dogs got them, I thought for the longest time the girls werent laying but I noticed yolk on the roosters gobbles(dangley red things... ) So the problem took care of itself.
    I dont think it would be wrong in certain situations to eat the eggs, but its not right for me. I think that some vegans look at the fact that someone eats eggs and not all the supporting facts as to why. And in RARE instances you cant find fault with that as long as they dont call themselves Vegan.

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    Ok I thought about this a little more, my main problem with her eating the eggs is that it sends the wrong message to non vegans. Forget the nazi vegans who only want to show that there more pure than you. Im talking about the everyday "but WHAT do you eat??" people.
    I may be able to say that all these factors. rescued chickens, safe happy lives now, there eggs just sit there etc are things that add up to me thinking that its not wrong to eat them. But no matter how articulate you are, no matter how persausive you argument may be they will not understand. It will be a major flaw and theyll focus on that.
    I know that I am living this way to help animals, the planet, myself etc. but I also am a representative of VEGANISM. My goal is to reduce animals suffering, and I want people to take my lifestyle seriously. Not nessasarily me lecturing and spouting off about that dead animal there eating, but me LIVING.
    If they see me living a life of inconsistencies, they will doubt the imortance of bieng vegan.
    So like I said in my last post, its not right for me. Even if I ate these in a cave, and no one ever knew. I would know, I would know that these were not vital to my life, eating them is purely selfish. My lack of self control. And I dont know about you all, but I cant be honest with others if Im not honest with myself.

  38. #38
    ConsciousCuisine
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    Quote lolamako
    Ok I thought about this a little more, my main problem with her eating the eggs is that it sends the wrong message to non vegans.

    Forget the nazi vegans who only want to show that there more pure than you. Im talking about the everyday "but WHAT do you eat??" people.
    Nazi Vegans who only want to show they're more pure than you...

    Hmmm, it's the "Mythic Vegan Nazis" the "Purists", again. Are they related to the "extremists" and the "AR Radicals"?

    I have yet to encounter these Ubiquitous characters. Perhaps it's because I have been a Vegan for so long and don't make a practice of associating with people who aren't interested in achieving ethical balance and optimum health (physical and Spiritual).

    Still, one has to wonder where these elusive vermin make thier homes...

  39. #39
    cedartree cedarblue's Avatar
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    nazi vegans seems to be a very strong term.

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    Sarcasm, a joke, exageration. Its sometimes hard to express this in just writing. Its merely a silly statement about people who always want to focus on the things you may be doing wrong, or not good enough. Unfortunatly bieng vegan is a path, not a destination. In these times it is almost impossible to be a perfect vegan.
    I think that most vegans I know have run into the type Im joking about.

  41. #41
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    Karen Davis the founder of the United Poultry Concern will not eat the eggs even when they come from the chickens on her own sanctuary and even though they have the best life you could imagine for a chicken. She wants people to move away from the idea that their taste has a "right" to be satisfied and that animals in general, and chickens in particular, may be used to satisfy that taste.

    This is from "The pig who sang to the moon" by Jeffrey Masson.

  42. #42
    blue's Avatar
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    OK, Mysh, that Republican Crack wasn't nice. I'm a proud republican! I am a George Bush supporter.

  43. #43
    gertvegan's Avatar
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    John Robbins says on his WEBSITE that "many scientists believe the Daily Value for cholesterol has been set far higher than optimum for human health as a result of political pressure from the egg industry".

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    The argument is a flawed one. The chicken continues to lay eggs? I could counter argue that sheep continue to grow wool so I have a reasonable position to harvest the by product. However philosophically you will find that you are on a slippery slope. The whole point about veganism is that many find it untolerable and speciesist to exploit animals: period. Fertilized Eggs are to nature identical to human embryo, unfertilized eggs are in nature identical to human menstruation. If it is allright to harvest protein from an animal because it continues to lay eggs, then the argument must stand that it is allright to exploit a human for their by product.
    Do you think this is revolting. Yes? Then it is the same for the chicken. But some exploit the chicken because it is of a lower animal intelligence than humans.

    Therefore philosophically, it is blatant unmasked speciesism to eat eggs.

  45. #45
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    Once long ago after first renouncing meat, I ate eggs. I convinced myself that since they were the seed for more chickens there was no conflict with my meat-free intention. And "Diet For a Small Planet" said they were perfect protein.

    This kind of rationalizing would eventually lead me astray and back into the succullence of flesh and blood. What happened was, after returning to New York in '78, biking over the Brooklyn Bridge, seeing the ships loading, I went to the NMU hall and shipped out. For a while I continued to pass on the meat. Every day I would see the excess meals being dumped over the side.

    So, in a weak moment I convinced myself that it was more a crime for these animals to have died in vain, just to be dumped unceremoniously into the drink. I started to feel guilty about it. Then one day I ordered some meat. In a few years I was chomping down steaks and chops and swilling it in with the cabernet. Now and again I'd ask myself what had happened to me.

    This is one of the reasons I quit going to sea again in '85. I settled in Portland, Oregon becoming impoverished and stranded. I ended up driving a cab. I finally quit eating meat again. Eventually I finally even became Vegan.

    After some time all traces of even cheese or egg left my body and I realized just how unclean these things really are. And what they were doing to my spirit, not to mention the body.

    After coming East again, I slipped a bit, but not into meat. For a while I got these Amish farm eggs from Sunshine, a health food store up my street. They were free ranging and supposedly OK, but the unclean nature of the meal kept hitting me. I gave them up over a year ago.

    Something ain't right about it.

    I am a tangerine ;)

  46. #46

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    I have seen how some birds react when animals or humans try to steal their eggs. That's all it takes for me to decide that I don't want to eat them.

  47. #47
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    The smell of eggs cooking is vile. Who would want to put something that smells like that into their mouth?

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    The smell of eggs cooking is vile. Who would want to put something that smells like that into their mouth?
    The little white bogie bit that's attached to the yolk is basically an umbilical cord that the chick would have been attched to if fertilised - now who wants to eat that!?

  49. #49
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    Quote Evilfluffbunny
    The little white bogie bit that's attached to the yolk is basically an umbilical cord that the chick would have been attched to if fertilised - now who wants to eat that!?
    The chalaza? I've read where the newer the egg is, the thicker that thing is inside the egg and it disappears as the egg ages.

    Real appitising thought, isn't it? *vomit*

  50. #50

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    The problem is if you call yourself 'vegitarian' people keep giving you dairy products and battery eggs. That was my problem before I became totally vegan.

    While a person is getting used to a vegan diet it's ok to slip every now and again as long as they make sure the eggs are not battery and the dairy products are organic/goats dairy products. Thats what I did and I have now no wish at all to eat anything which isn't vegan.

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