Vitamin K for newborns (UK)

[refinnej]

Just wondering what other vegan parents' experiences are with this. The Vegan Society says that the oral dose is not vegan, because it's in gelatin capsules. However, on a non-veg forum, I was reading about people giving drops (like from a medicine dropper) because there's a correlation now with the jab specifically (but not oral doses) and an increased risk of the child developing leukemia. The doses were lower in the drops than in the injection. The chance of the baby having this clotting disorder are really small (like 1 in 10,000ish) I'm wondering how many pass the Vit K up all together? If we formula feed, bean will get the K there, but I hope to breast feed and what baby gets this way seems to be really variable, though some places say the mother can take a supplement too.

<<dizzy

I'm only about halfway (19 weeks), but we're trying to think ahead about some of these things. Other big concern is what to do if breast feeding doesn't work for some reason.

[twinkle]

Are you planning on a hospital birth - you could find out the type/brand of vitamin k they have available and then contact the manufacturer if it's not obvious whether it's vegan suitable/jabby or not. Actually, I should do that too since I'm 7 weeks ahead of you!

I'm planning on having some soya formula as back-up at the hospital in case I have to have a c-section or can't breastfeed for some other reason, but I've been wondering about what the situation is with milk banks/wetnurses. I'd so much rather my kid had breastmilk even if it can't be mine, although I've got no reason to think I won't be able to breastfeed. Conversely, if it turns out I have a really good supply I'd be happy to donate my spare milk.

[Frosty]

We did a bit of research on Vitamin K before RóFro was born, and the oral we had was vegan friendly. It was out of a glass bottle that we used a medicine syringe to give to her.

Breast feeding and formula was a concern for us. Luckily (as this was the way we wanted to go) RóFro is all about the boob and we haven't had to give her formula.

The hospital didn't stock any vegan friendly formula, oddly enough. It is also very hard to find vegetarian friendly, when we were looking pre-birth. Most of it seems to have fishes in.

A couple of vegan friends' baby spent some time in hospital and out of several formulas on offer there was only one that was veggie, none that were vegan.

Think I might have gone off on a little tangent there, sorry...

[twinkle]

Frosty, I saw soya formula recently in a supermarket which was vegetarian society approved, I assume the vitamin D is from lanolin but I can live with that if I have to go the formula route. As I understand it there is no vegan formula on the market at the moment.

[Veryblue2]

Refinnej, I was also under the impression that there was no NHS supplied vegan K option available after speaking with my obstetrician and midwife. Here's the link to the vegan society note: http://www.vegansociety.com/healthcare/midwives.aspx.

We played wait and see ! If... a) it was a straight forward birth; b) our son was able to receive his full placental blood supply (i.e. his cord had stopped pulsating before it was cut); and c) I was able to have a natural third stage (i.e. the midwife was completely happy that both of us were fine) ...we had decided in advance not to have the vitamin K.

Fortunately, this was the case for us. Otherwise, unless they had said outright he has VKDB (vitamin K deficient bleeding) and we need to act now, we would have asked for (and then probably eventually accepted) a doctors rationale as to why it was necessary given the circumstances. You have to give signed consent for them to give it and by the NHS' own guidelines this should be 'informed' consent, so asking for as many opinions as possible makes sense.

Yup, Frosty & Twinkle it is sadly true there is no vegan formula left on the market since Heinz stopped producing Nurture (what was once upon a time Farley's). The alternative soya-based formulas available by SMA and Cow & Gate contain D3 (see: http://www.vegansociety.com/news/veg...t-formula.aspx) though are vitamin K fortified. Rather than buy any of either in advance I opted for a pump instead, because if it was really necessary to go with formula both are available and stocked in larger supermarkets and I could have sent someone out to get it.

If you do have a difficult birth or any other issues the best advice is to get hold of the lactation consultant before agreeing to anything else Refinnej. Baring medical issues, it really is all about confidence (so positive thinking!) and practice (try to remember that it is a learnt skill for both you and the baby which takes time to get into). I won't lie though - feeding on demand 24/7 is both challenging and exhausting at a very emotional time!!!

For a little peace of mind, I practiced expressing (just until I had a drop of colostrum appear) for the week before my due date (this video was very useful: http://newborns.stanford.edu/Breastf...xpression.html) and made clear to my midwife et al. that I would be breastfeeding so wanted skin to skin and his first feed straight away. Also, I did lots of breastfeeding related reading in advance e.g. KellyMom (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/index.html); So That's What They're For! (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L...page&q&f=false) and the Everything Breastfeeding Book (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=L...page&q&f=false) so that (like with veganism) I could more confidently answer the 'why are you doing that?' type questions.

I didn't supplement with vitamin K when starting breastfeeding, I just tried to make sure that I included a good source (leafy greens - kale, spinach etc. and broccoli) in my diet daily along with a galactagogue (oats) for milk supply and carried on with my pre-natal's (iron/D/calcium). After a few weeks once the gut flora is established they start making their own vitamin K, so fortunately it is not an ongoing concern!

Best wishes

[kokopelli]

My first child was born in hospital, after I had planned a home birth, because he was a surprise breech (forceps delivery). A few hours later, a midwife came round to give him a vitamin K injection, which she said was necessary because of the risk of internal bleeding. I wasn't very happy at the idea, but agreed anyway. Then my baby developed jaundice that made him lethargic so that needed treatment with UV light to break down the bilirubin which accumulated. He was fine eventually and we were discharged from hospital after one week. He's 26 now, a life vegan and very fit and healthy.

My other 2 children were born at home and the midwives didn't seem to think vitamin K injections were necessary for them. One child developed mild neonatal jaundice that cleared up without treatment and the other was fine from the start.

My own instinct is to avoid interventions as far as possible and I did feel that the vit K injection was probably unnecessary and I stressed about it for some time afterwards.

[Franksmammy]

i think the oral vit k in a glass bottle is vegan, i asked got a very long winded reply, i was planning on not giving it, but i had an emergency c section and decided right then i would.
there are no vegan formulas annoyingly
however there are some fab lactation consultants out there (le leche leage can put you in contact) there is no reason (except in rare cases) that breast feeding isnt possible, even after c section, its just a lot of work, its hard, i felt like giving up loads and did get quite depressed about the 24/7 feedings, but looking back it wasn;t that bad, it was worth it, and it was actually nice bonding time...it just did not feel that way at the time! i think the midwives do push formula and stress mothers about their 'starving baby' thats 'dehydrated' milk can take 3-5 days to come in, and thats normal, babies are prepared and can cope with that, a few teeny drops of colostrum is all they need first few days. just feed feed feeeeed! and supply will come in. even one bottle of formula can hinder the supply greatly.
good luck!

[refinnej]

Bumping as the bean is due to arrive any day now. (Holy cow!)

Franksmommy and Frosty: where did you find the oral/liquid? I tried H&B, but they only had tablets or gelcaps, etc. Been hunting online too, but can only seem to find something to order from North America.

[khadagan]

My son was born 6 weeks ago here in Canada and the birth was easy and uncomplicated. He was just fine, no interventions or meds, he didn't have any bruising, injuries or any need for any other sort of medical assistance so we didn't give him the vit K. I'm breastfeeding him, he didn't get jaundice, I don't feel a need to give him anything. Everything you do and sometimes not do comes with a risk, I feel the best thing is just to do your own research and use your commom sense.

My daughter however was a different story. She was premature, severely bruised due to traumatic birth, needed an operation and bloodtransfusion, became very jaundiced as well. In her case I was ok with about anything on offer since I just wanted her to live and be healthy. She's absolutely fine btw, a healthy and happy almost 4-year old.

[BearFruit]

I opted out completely for Vitamin K for my now 4 year old. The midwife who delivered my baby loved my birthplan but I was soon handed to a midwife who was horrible about it making me think some of the noises my baby was making were not healthy (she tried to take the joy out of every moment I was cuddling my son)...then she got someone else to ask me about my decision and he tried to belittle me.

I based it on some of the discussion I read between nurses/doctors about the necessity of Vitamin K and also the reasoning behind why babies are born with so little. I can't remember exactly now but it made sense at the time. I remember vaguely part of it being something about the fact that babies born in hospitals don't tend to receive all the blood they can as the cord is cut before it stops pulsating and this being more of a contributing factor to the clotting disorder as opposed to the Vitamin K (and some other stuff..really can't remember though)...so all I did was make sure the cord wasn't cut early and did everything as natural as possible. I also never supplemented afterwards either.