Omega-3: Vegan DHA / EPA

[sandra]

The V-Pure ones are quite expensive. I got a months supply last year which cost £18 but there are 3 of us who would be taking them so that would be £54 a month!

Does anyone know of a cheaper source?

[harpy]

Must admit I don't usually take them myself but optimistically rely on my hemp-oil conversion skills I try to get my (vegetarian) other half to take them though because he doesn't do the hemp oil thing.

I haven't seen them anywhere other than Water4life, which seems to have a permanent 3-for-2 offer. http://www.water4.net/products.htm

[sandra]

What way do you take the hemp oil............mixed in food?

[harpy]

I usually put it on my toast instead of margarine - bit runny but I quite like the taste. You can use it in salad dressings etc as well. ETA you're not meant to heat it, I'm assuming semi-cold toast temperature is OK though.

[veganwitch]

you can also buy v-pure through Pangea www.veganstore.com or Vegan Essentials www.veganessentials.com. But they seem to always be backordered. Ordering directly through the company gets the best deal w/ the 2 for 3.

sandra, you might want to check out those websites b/c they do have omega supplements other than v-pure that are less expensive.

[sandra]

I usually put it on my toast instead of margarine - bit runny but I quite like the taste. You can use it in salad dressings etc as well. ETA you're not meant to heat it, I'm assuming semi-cold toast temperature is OK though.

I think I'll try the hemp oil, I've seen it in my health food shop!

you can also buy v-pure through Pangea www.veganstore.com or Vegan Essentials www.veganessentials.com. But they seem to always be backordered. Ordering directly through the company gets the best deal w/ the 2 for 3.

sandra, you might want to check out those websites b/c they do have omega supplements other than v-pure that are less expensive.

Thanks Veganwitch!

[harpy]

Is V-pure still the only algae-based supplement that contains both DHA and EPA, or are there others now?

I feel I probably ought to take the supplement as well as the hemp oil, as there is some research suggesting that bodies aren't always that good at converting these oils to the form we need. But as has been pointed out the supplement works out quite expensive if you take it every day. Maybe I'll hedge my bets and take it every other day or something...

[whalespace]

Has anyone noticed that V-Pure has changed a bit? I was just placing a new order and noticed that now instead of 90 capsules there are only 60. And they are recommending 2 a day instead of 3 a day. The amount of DHA has been increased but EPA decreased. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this. I need to order more but changes always throw me for a loop.

Do you keep your V-Pure refrigerated? I just noticed on the bottle that is says to but I never have. Maybe all this time I've been using ineffective/bad vpure.
Grrrrr.

Thanks veganwitch.

I had not noticed a change in dose I'll check the next batch..nor had I kept my capsules in the fridge.

V-pure just refunded me five quid because their U.K. distributer had run out for three weeks.

[Gorilla]

Is V-pure still the only algae-based supplement that contains both DHA and EPA, or are there others now?

the only other algae-derived one i know of is DHA only. is it better to have a mix of both? i must admit i don't really understand a lot of what i've read about Omega-3.

[harpy]

the only other algae-derived one i know of is DHA only. is it better to have a mix of both? i must admit i don't really understand a lot of what i've read about Omega-3.

Not sure anyone really knows the answer, but the idea seems to be that your body needs both and that some people's bodies are better than others at making them (from ALA). So if you take them ready made it doesn't matter so much if yours isn't good at it. (I use the term "you" in a general way )

This is relatively comprehensible I think : http://www.vegsoc.org/info/omega3.html and there is probably some discussion earlier in this thread too.

[veganwitch]

^ I've emailed the company about the change in dose and refrigeration issue. If I get a response back I'll let you all know.

[Gorilla]

This is relatively comprehensible I think : http://www.vegsoc.org/info/omega3.html and there is probably some discussion earlier in this thread too.

that's a great link, thank you harpy

[veganwitch]

I finally got a response from v-pure...

"V-Pure only needs refrigerated if you live in a really hot climate, such
as the middle East. Its very stable and will keep fresh at room
temperature. If you cut open a capsule , it should have a very slight
fish smell. If its gone off it will smell like rotten fish, you will be
very aware of this.

The dosage has changed as we cannot always guarantee the amounts of
either DHA or EPA. Thankfully the DHA has increased quite considerably.

The Vit E act as a natural preservative the amounts are:
VITAMIN E

Alpha-tocopherol 26.69 mg/100g
Beta-tocopherol 3.08 mg/100g
Gamma-tocopherol 166.75 mg/100g
Delta-tocopherol 47.65 mg/100g

CO ENZYME Q10 3.35 mg/100g

We hope with the next batch we can increase the EPA and keep the DHA the
same. We aim to beat every other alga supplement out there!"

[whalespace]

I hope the EPA does increase...and certainly not decrease, since I am buying the entire product only for the EPA .

Incidentally, I always bite open these capsules... and they don't taste like fish to me, not surprisingly they taste like very mild sea weed [though I think this algae is grown in fresh water ponds].

Fish eat algae, apart from swimming in algae broth for most of their lives.

Incidentaly two, the asian warehouse I get pulses from, also sold me "British Pharmaceutical Grade Linseed Oil [brand name: Niharti]" for a quarter of "high street" prices.

Flax oil: Linseed oil: Alsi oil.

[veganwitch]

I got my shipment from v-pure finally. They threw in an extra bottle b/c my order had somehow gotten misplaced. Anyway, this is the first shipment I got since they reformulated it. The bottles/design are different and the capsule itself looks different. Pretty much the same shape but darker. Idk, minor stuff...but I don't do well w/ change.

[whalespace]

I got mine too; about eight weeks late. Apparently, v-pure have re-arranged their supply structure, and are now redistributing from within the U.K.. I'm glad that all four tubs arrived in the same packet from the U.K., and not four separate packets from Switzerland.

Sixty capsules per tub instead of ninety capsules.

Also:
Old:
EPA=75mg per capsule [6750mg per tub] 6point75 grammes.
DHA=270mg per capsule [24300 mg per tub] 24point3 grammes.

New:
EPA=50mg per capsule [3000mg per tub] 3 grammes.
DHA=350mg per capsule [21000mg per tub] 21 grammes.

No co-enzyme Q ten, nor vitamin E listed.
This is still much cheaper than finding a small bale of algae each day, and performing angelic cookery.

I did wonder if new customers were receiving the limited supplies first.

With the 3 for two offer, i am paying 3 point 3 quid per gramme EPA.
List price ..........five quid per gramme.

[Prawnil]

I'm dumping this here while the main omega-3 thread is shut. It'd probably be better suited there once it's open again. Some of it might've been posted in the past, but it is essentially my own reasoning for choosing to buy algal PUFAs soon, to take now and then (not at the label doses though, too expensive! I want some dietary preformed DHA, that is all).

It has nothing whatsoever to do with extending life, and everything to do with neurodegeneration being my absolute last choice cause of death. A few notes: 1) It’s colossal. 2) near-Consensus appears to be that fish benefits= EPA/DHA, so where you read “Fish”, read “probably DHA/EPA(Long-Chain-Polyunsaturated Omega-3s). 3) “n-3” is just another notation for Omega-3.


=================================
[Part 1. ALA -> EPA ->DHA Conversion.]

Fokkema M, et al., 2000. Short-term supplementation of low-dose γ-linolenic acid (GLA), α-linolenic acid (ALA), or GLA plus ALA does not augment long-chain-polyunsaturated omega-3 status of Dutch vegans to an appreciable extent. Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids; 63(5).

4 weeks of 2g ALA/ 1.2g GLA (or both) daily had no significant effect on DHA status.
Nor did 2 weeks of 6.5g ALA daily. Both in agreement with similar trials done in omnivores.
-------

Burdge G & Calder P, 2005. Conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to longer-chain poly-unsaturated fatty acids in human adults. Reproduction, Nutrition, Development; 45

Conversion rate ALA to EPA/DHA very limited, having essentially no impact on plasma DHA (not necessarily the same for brain cell membranes, where it counts most).
~8% ALA to EPA conversion.
4% ALA to DHA conversion (highest estimate).
-------

Emken E, et al., 1994. Dietary linoleic acid influences desaturation and acylation of deuterium-labeled linoleic and linolenic acids in young adult males. Biochimica et Biophysica Acta; 1213.

7.9% to 25.7% ALA to EPA/DHA conversion (providing <50% of estimated requirement for EPA/DHA in some people)
-------

H Gerster, 1998. Can adults adequately convert α-linolenic acid to EPA and DHA? International Journal of Vitamin & Nutrition Research; 68

4% ALA to DHA conversion men. 9% ALA to DHA conversion women.
-------

Burdge G, 2004. α-linolenic acid metabolism in men and women: nutritional and biological implications. Current Opinion in Clinical Nutrition and Metabolic Care; 7.

-Oestrogen regulation of the ALA-DHA conversion may be the reason for the slightly better rates in women, particularly important in providing adequate DHA to the foetus during pregnancy. Lucky.

[Prawnil]

=================================

[Part 2. Long-Chain Omega-3 Fatty Acids & Cardiovascular Health.]

Daviglus M, et al., 1997. Fish consumption and the 30-year risk of fatal myocardial infarction. New England Journal of Medicine; 336(15).
-------

Albert C, et al., 1998. Fish consumption and risk of sudden cardiac death. JAMA; 279(1).
-------

Hu F, et al., 2002. Fish and omega-3 fatty acid intake and risk of coronary heart disease in women. JAMA; 346.
-------

Thies F, 2001. Association of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids with stability of atherosclerotic plaques: a randomised controlled trial. The Lancet; 361.

All suggest a probable link between long-chain unsaturated omega-3 fatty acids and reduced risk of death from cardiovascular disease.

[Prawnil]

=================================

[Part 3. Long-Chain Omega-3 Fatty Acids & the Mind.]

Morris M, et al., 2005. Fish consumption and cognitive decline with age in large community study. Archives of Neurology; 62.

-Marine n-3 intake related to slower cognitive decline.
-------

Richardson A & Ross M, 2000. Fatty acid metabolism in neurodevelopment disorders: a new perspective on association between AD/HD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and autistic spectrum. Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids; 63

-Some AD/HD and autism coincides with low ALA-to-EPA/DHA conversion.
-------

Fontani G, et al., 2005. Cognitive and physiological effects of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid supplementation in healthy subjects. European Journal of Clinical Investigation; 25(11).

-Mood and memory improvements with n-3s.
-------

Mazza M, 2007. Omega-3 fatty acids and anti-oxidants in neurological and psychiatric diseases: an overview. Progress in Neurological-Psychopharmacology and Biological Psychology; 31(1).

-Long-chain n-3s associated with reductions in Dementia incl. Alzheimer’s, Mood Disorders, Bipolar & Multiple Sclerosis.
-EPA/DHA influence neuronal plasticity, memory. DHA supplementation in newborns improves vision and brain development.

-Multiple-study estimate of healthy daily intake ~ 220mg of both DHA & EPA.

-Ideal n-6:n-3 is about 1:1
-Modern, Western standard is about 15:1

[Prawnil]

=================================

[Part 4. Long-Chain Omega-3 Fatty Acids and Neurodegeneration.]

Morris M, 2003. Consumption of fish and n-3 fatty acids and risk of incidence of Alzheimer disease. Archives of Neurology; 60.
-------


Kyle D, et al., 1999. Low serum DHA is a significant risk factor for Alzheimer’s dementia. Lipids; 34.
-------


Lukin W, et al., 2005. A role for DHA-derived neuroprotectin D1 in neural cell survival and Alzheimer disease. Journal of Clinical Investigation; 115(10).
-------

Luchsinger J, Mayeux R, 2004. Dietary factors and Alzheimer’s disease. The Lancet: Neurology; 3(10).

-n-3s (particularly DHA), B12, B6, vitamin E, vitamin C, carotenes, very low alcohol intake and folate appear to be protective against Alzheimer’s.

[Prawnil]

=================================

[Some Positives/ Neutrals.]

Sanders T, 2009(In Press). DHA status of vegetarians. Prostaglandins, Leukotrienes and Essential Fatty Acids.

-Significantly lower DHA relative to omnivores, but evidence for a deleterious effect isn’t clear.
-------


Fokkema M, et al., 2000. Short-term supplementation of low-dose γ-linolenic acid (GLA), α-linolenic acid (ALA…
-“Epidemiological data … with fish (oil) certainly argue in favour of a beneficial effect of DHA surplus. It should, however, be noted that these effects have been established in omnivores and that the low LCPn-3 status of vegans exists in a context of lower cardiovascular risk.”
-------


Li, et al., 1999. Effect of dietary alpha-linolenic acid on thrombotic risk factors in vegetarian men. American Journal of Clinical Nurtrition.


-ALA intake increase corresponded to some measurable increase in EPA/DHA.
-------


Bazan N, 2003. Synaptic lipid signalling: significance of polyunsaturated fatty acids and platelet-activating-factor. Journal of Lipid Research; 44.


-“… retinal DHA, like brain DHA, is very resistant to n-3 fatty acid dietary deprivation.”

[The End]

[whalespace]

Thankyou Prawnil, I feel like I owe you a favour.

My only criticism is that I would avoid leading into "bullet points" with a minus sign [or hyphen], since the numbers following them will be read as negatives.... unless there are enough contradictions for such an interpretation to be disregarded [but we should be as clear as we can be].

Thanks again.

[Prawnil]

You're completely right. It crossed my mind as I was doing it, but I continued anyway for no apparent reason. I've taken them out now.
This shouldn't be read as accurate paraphrasing of entire papers, but only my own observations over quite a range of studies & reviews. If anyone ends up reading this backwards, I included a note on the "fish" thing in the first post - that's fairly important. I also feel the need to point out that I understand many of the oline papers can't be accessed without various logins, but I've included them essentially to show that they're real, that they are actually there in these reputable databases. Those that're missing - some aren't freely available in full; the rest I just lost track of & couldn't be bothered with. It got late.

[Korn]

I would be surprised if this new study won't trigger a lot of discussion:

Women on Vegan Diets Have More Long-Chain Omega-3s, Compared with Fish-Eaters:

Women following vegan diets have significantly more omega-3 “good fats” in their blood, compared with fish-eaters, meat-eaters, and ovo-lacto vegetarians, according to a new report from the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC) Study. Levels in vegan men were not quite as high as in vegan women. Despite zero intake of long-chain omega-3s eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and substantially lower intake of their plant-derived precursor alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), vegan participants converted robust amounts of shorter-chain fatty acids into these long-chain fatty acids. The study included 14,422 men and women aged 39 to 78.

More here:
Fish-Avoiders Have More Omega-3s than Expected

Omega-3: ALA intakes enough for EPA/DPA levels for non-fish eaters?

[Korn]

Present and potential industrial applications of macro- and microalgae.

This review provides a complete overview over a spectrum of areas where value-added applications of algae are in sight, from conventional food, feed, dietary supplement, and cosmetics to novel technologies for environmental and biofuel applications. In most cases macro- and microalgae are discussed separately due to their inherent differences from cultivation. Comparison of various cultivation systems are made in relation to specific value-added products. The potential uses of algal biomeal, the sizable waste stream generated after extraction of targeted compounds such as eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) from the biomass of cultivated microalgae, are also discussed based on the concept of waste-recovery and biorefinery. The article presents some promising patents on potential industrial applications of macro- and microalgae.

PMID: 20858194

This is only the abstract, which in this case is rather vague... has anyone here seen the full article?

[Korn]

Omega-3 fatty acids for nutrition and medicine: considering microalgae oil as a vegetarian source of EPA and DHA. (2007)

Long-chain EPA/DHA omega-3 fatty acid supplementation can be co-preventative and co-therapeutic. Current research suggests increasing accumulated long chain omega-3s for health benefits and as natural medicine in several major diseases. But many believe plant omega-3 sources are nutritionally and therapeutically equivalent to the EPA/DHA omega-3 in fish oil. Although healthy, precursor ALA bio-conversion to EPA is inefficient and production of DHA is nearly absent, limiting the protective value of ALA supplementation from flax-oil, for example. Along with pollutants certain fish acquire high levels of EPA/DHA as predatory species. However, the origin of EPA/DHA in aquatic ecosystems is algae. Certain microalgae produce high levels of EPA or DHA. Now, organically produced DHA-rich microalgae oil is available. Clinical trials with DHA-rich oil indicate comparable efficacies to fish oil for protection from cardiovascular risk factors by lowering plasma triglycerides and oxidative stress. This review discusses 1) omega-3 fatty acids in nutrition and medicine; 2) omega-3s in physiology and gene regulation; 3) possible protective mechanisms of EPA/DHA in major diseases such as coronary heart disease, atherosclerosis, cancer and type 2 diabetes; 4) EPA and DHA requirements considering fish oil safety; and 5) microalgae EPA and DHA-rich oils and recent clinical results.

PMID: 18220672

[DrewCornell]

First timer here. Vegetarian turning Vegan.

I visited a nutritionist to see what my levels were as far as minerals and such. I discussed with her about Omegas. While she said nut and seed are a good source, a convenient and consistent form is Essential Living Oils by Dr. Ohhira. I live in a small town so I had to find them online. www.realfoodgrocery.com It's the lowest price i found but they don't have a lot of other vegan stuff though.

[Vegan Joe]

My last cholesterol test, my good cholesterol was 51.
I attribute this to sprinkling Chia seeds on my oatmeal several times a week.
I'm 57, and been vegan for over 5 years. This is the highest test result in those years, and I attribute it to the introduction of Chia seeds in my diet.

[whalespace]

Opti 3 appear [claim] to have increased the amount of:
EPA in their product to 200mg per dose [dose of two capsules]; this is five fold increase.

DHA in their product to 400mg per dose [dose of two capsules; this is two fold increase.

Same price. I got some.

Per tub :
EPA = 6 grammes.
DHA = 12 grammes.

Deal of three tubs for about thirty quid plus three quid postage.

[Consistency]

//

[Maître]

I've tried them and didn't have any issues, they were easy to take and had no bad tastes or smells etc.

[Consistency]

--

[DavidT]

Hi everyone

I've tried searching but had no luck finding a suitable answer to a question from a non-vegan (though the answer's probably there somewhere!).

The non-vegan stated that 'not all omega-3s are the same' and that just because 'omega-3 from fish oil is known to be beneficial, proponents of plant-based oils have made the assumption all omega-3 oils are the same and consequently just as beneficial'.

I have a few thoughts, particularly with regard to the mercury, etc in fish oil but how do I respond comprehensively?

[Korn]

A little a side comment - just saw this new article:
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...med.2012.262v1
We also have this one:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/sho...ish-In-The-Sea

proponents of plant-based oils have made the assumption all omega-3 oils are the same and consequently just as beneficial'.

Not really... more later.

[Consistency]

I've recently started taking the Opti3 EPA/DHA supplements and they really do work. Dark adaptation has improved only after a couple of days. On the first day I did notice colours more vividly.

I've been reading on how these supplements benefit those with dyslexia.

[Maître]

Hi everyone

I've tried searching but had no luck finding a suitable answer to a question from a non-vegan (though the answer's probably there somewhere!).

The non-vegan stated that 'not all omega-3s are the same' and that just because 'omega-3 from fish oil is known to be beneficial, proponents of plant-based oils have made the assumption all omega-3 oils are the same and consequently just as beneficial'.

I have a few thoughts, particularly with regard to the mercury, etc in fish oil but how do I respond comprehensively?

There's ALA, EPA and DHA which are all separate 'omega3s' and all required by the human body.

ALA is both used by itself as well as converted into EPA and DHA by the body, but the rate is known to vary and commonly assumed that it's not efficient enough to rely on ALA alone as your source for all three. Fish oil contains ALA as well as EPA and DHA, as does algae and derived supplements. Most vegan omega3 supplements and recommended high omega3 foods (flax, hemp, etc) other than algae contain just ALA and thus are considered inferior because you need far more 'omega3' in order to meet your requirements. One other problem with getting just ALA is that the amount of omega6 that you get interferes with the conversion of ALA into EPA and DHA.

Mercury is present in most fish oils, there's a higher concentration the higher up the food chain the fish is, though it seems to be under debate as to whether it's actually dangerous at the levels consumed. Algae derived omega3 oils don't contain mercury.

tl;dr - Algae based omega3 is the same as fish oil but without the mercury risk or the cruelt , the only downside being the higher cost due to lower demand - fish get their omega3s from algae, how could it be inferior?

Thiis my understanding after reading various threads both on this forum and checking out external articles, someone please correct if I'm mistaken at all.

[DavidT]

Thanks Maître. The non-vegan was referring to plant-derived omegas (flax, rape etc) rather than algae. Stephen Walsh (Plant-Based Nutrition and Health) makes the valid points about omega-3/omega-6 balance but recommends a teaspoon of flax oil a day as being the best source. I'll have to re-read his notes about EPA and DHA but I've lent the book out...

[Maître]

Thanks Maître. The non-vegan was referring to plant-derived omegas (flax, rape etc) rather than algae. Stephen Walsh (Plant-Based Nutrition and Health) makes the valid points about omega-3/omega-6 balance but recommends a teaspoon of flax oil a day as being the best source. I'll have to re-read his notes about EPA and DHA but I've lent the book out...

Ah, I considered algae a plant while reading your post It all comes down to how effectively the body can convert ALA I imagine, which is something that nobody seems to be able to agree upon yet >.> I also imagine that it varies a lot between different people, as some cultures have eaten fish for generations whereas others have had to rely on this ALA conversion.

[Consistency]

---

[citameht]

I react really badly to these algae (most likely), I guess I'll stick to inferior landlubber omega-3.

[Consistency]

Has anyone experienced macular degeneration(vision loss) from taking EPA/DHA supplements?

[harpy]

Why do you ask, Consistency? There seems to be a suggestion that higher levels of DHA/EPA (along with other factors) are associated with reduced risk of macular degeneration http://www.iovs.org/content/early/20...-8721.abstract I don't think I've read the opposite, until now.

ETA that study I linked to is about macular pigment density, but high density is meant to reduce the risk of macular degeneration, I thought?

EagainTA this is quite interesting, though it goes on about fish: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/m...ion-000104.htm It mentions that higher ALA could be associated with macular degeneration.

[Consistency]

Why do you ask, Consistency? There seems to be a suggestion that higher levels of DHA/EPA (along with other factors) are associated with reduced risk of macular degeneration http://www.iovs.org/content/early/20...-8721.abstract I don't think I've read the opposite, until now.

ETA that study I linked to is about macular pigment density, but high density is meant to reduce the risk of macular degeneration, I thought?

EagainTA this is quite interesting, though it goes on about fish: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/m...ion-000104.htm It mentions that higher ALA could be associated with macular degeneration.

You're right.

I pin pointed the macular degeneration to white rice. Explains why the majority of chinese people need glasses.

[efAston]

...makes me wonder if our bodies were designed or intended to have fish in the diet.

Our bodies weren't designed

[phoenix rising]

What a shame the Opti3 Omega 3's contain rosemary. Will, for now have to stick to the more expensive V Pure, unless anyone knows of any other brands out there?